I will preface this by saying that Montes in general I absolutely love. A good #2, PE, #5. Love them. That is why I thought I would loved the Edmundo. Great size, great marca, how could you go wrong. Not the case at all. I tried numerous times over the years. Different boxes, years, etc. Same result. I never liked them. Almost like they were a different profile. Can't explain why, just my experience. I gave up on them long ago.