1LegLance Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Discontinued cigars....beauty and bane of my life... So many great sticks are not with us anymore....and so many cigars seem great in my head only because they are not with us anymore Every once in a while I get my hands on something that is long gone or a brother of the leaf has a taste for something from my stash that is dc'd. I always struggle with letting someone smoke something that has been dc'd since if they love it they will now feel the same sense of loss I do. Then again if I save them for myself I rarely will smoke those sticks since I know they are forever lost. That has a downside as a buddy and I recently learned when we finally fired up some that I had saved for about 10yrs.....flat and boring. We simply waited too long and the cigar has aged away all it's yumminess. So why am I posting this...well in a recent trade I was given a Diplomatico #5...never a marca I was in love with. The Diplo #2 is a mellow sister to the Monte #2 & Upman #2 and only bought for comparison. The same with the Diplo #4 & #5 vs the Monte 4,5 But since it is now dc'd it was kinda fun to see.....and the mental struggle started...should I let a buddy try something no longer around or keep it for myself. Screw it, fire this puppy up and remember why I always enjoyed the Diplomatico line but was never in love with them. Great chance to remind myself that while we have lost some great sticks, not everything we lost was great....at least to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyGunz Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Smoked a Dip 1 the other day and would never have reached for another even if they were still in production... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sengjc Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Never give newbies discontinued sticks - why subject them to the torture of having to hunt for them? Ignorance is bliss... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santela Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I consider myself a newbie, and I don't think I would know to appreciate a HTF stick or discontinued one. After all, there are so many in production ones for me to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZCUBAN Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If they are good friends share if possible ,spread the love /pay it forward ,life's to short 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 "Discontinued" doesn't mean "good" or even "special" to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckucci Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 "Discontinued" doesn't mean "good" or even "special" to me. I'm with you on this one, I've had some terrible discontinued cigars, and some great ones. There is a reason these cigars are no longer in production. Many of them were poor sellers, due to the fact they were not great cigars! However, you do find the odd jewel that you wish you could hang on to forever... If it was me, and I had two of them, I'd smoke one and save one. If I only had one, I'd smoke it.. However, I'd be sure to save the band and take lots of pictures to remember it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginseng Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Discontinued cigars....beauty and bane of my life... So many great sticks are not with us anymore....and so many cigars seem great in my head only because they are not with us anymore ... I always struggle with letting someone smoke something that has been dc'd since if they love it they will now feel the same sense of loss I do. Then again if I save them for myself I rarely will smoke those sticks since I know they are forever lost. .... Great chance to remind myself that while we have lost some great sticks, not everything we lost was great....at least to me Lance's post was a reflection. A nuanced and honest reverie including an open-eyed acknowledgement of "rose colored glasses" and the allure of that which has been lost. I consider myself a cigar utiliarian, but even I recognize that there are many flavors of special. It is our ability to appreciate this richness of experience that raises Habanos above mere activity or fascination. How we respond to the opportunity to share or burn a relic is situational. It is also reflective of our temperament and personality. Given the chance, I would share. But along with the cigar would come a story about what this particular cigar meant to me. How it figured in my journey. I suppose that if I provide something meaningful to me, I at least want to pass some of that on to the recipient. Call it "paying the piper" if you will. Thank you for posting, Lance. Wilkey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I suppose that if the friend is truly new to cigars, I might give certain aspects consideration. If the friend is more of a regular smoker, the humidor is pretty much open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I like sharing my cigars. To my veteran cigar buddies, nothing that I have is not good enough for them. To newbies too. If it's good even a newbie will realise and appreciate it. If I've shared something memorable, help them appreciate and continue to pursue this great hobby of ours then I'm happy. When I got into cigars in 2008 a kind stranger shared wih me a long discontinued Cohiba torpedo (sorry I don't remember more) and it blew me away. Yes even then it blew me away even though, in hindsight, I know I would appreciate it more today. That experience helped me formed my expectations and standards on what a truely great cigar can be. I will always remember his kindness and in turn try to do the same. During those times I've also been gifted Guants too and to this day have a distaste for it and the gifter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Lance's post was a reflection. A nuanced and honest reverie including an open-eyed acknowledgement of "rose colored glasses" and the allure of that which has been lost. I consider myself a cigar utiliarian, but even I recognize that there are many flavors of special. It is our ability to appreciate this richness of experience that raises Habanos above mere activity or fascination. How we respond to the opportunity to share or burn a relic is situational. It is also reflective of our temperament and personality. Given the chance, I would share. But along with the cigar would come a story about what this particular cigar meant to me. How it figured in my journey. I suppose that if I provide something meaningful to me, I at least want to pass some of that on to the recipient. Call it "paying the piper" if you will. Thank you for posting, Lance. Wilkey Beautifully written and reflective of the wisdom of sound mind, seasoned smoker, and I might add, my friend! Cheers! -Piggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PigFish Posted October 24, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have to agree that discontinuation does not make a bad cigar a sublime one. Discontinuations, while I was not consulted about any of them so I am speculating, are likely commercial decisions. Frankly, I have to disagree that they were discontinued due to the fact that they were poor performing cigars (taste wise). My empirical experience disproves this (to me). I think that the contrary is true! What do I mean by contrary? I will briefly explain… I see cigar smoking as en evolutionary process. Some of these processes conclude while others continue. It is individual and varies smoker to smoker. I have settled and largely concluded my journey… for now! Many of you may never complete, or mature as I call it. Some, just float with the prevailing tide and wish to endlessly experiment and try new things. I digress… I believe that many discontinued cigars, represented an ability for the refined palate (not meaning better, but better directed) as a means to find the geodes amongst the stones. As they were not extremely popular, and a means to access many good cigars at what Tabacuba saw as below market prices, when weighed against their more popular and expensive cigars, they represented a bargain that was commercially illogical to produce… Many discontinued cigars, now I am nitpicking, in small and medium ring sizes are (were) largely superior to their overproduced and overpriced cousins. They were great cigars, yet they were not really selling to those without the wisdom to purchase them, and when they sold they were not top tier money makers… That made them discontinued… They were jewels to those who had the vision to buck the trend. Smoking, has always been a passion commercially driven by trends. You only have to observe what people buy to conclude that there are trends in the industry. If your tastes buck the trends, mine do, then the data provided can also provide you with generalizations and conclusions. I don't care for larger ring cigars… This means that if you like them, you can either taste things that I cannot, or have different tastes than I do. To bring the conclusion and focus on my egocentrism, it means that a large pool of smokers have poor taste! This is of course not written to offend people. It is just a forthright statement of individualism and egocentrism. If I were writing for the trend-setting pool, I would say that a person being on the outside of the trend, a person like me, was the one suffering from 'poor taste.' It is opinion and perspective alone that drives the view point. There are no facts of the matter, just opinions. Many wonderful cigars have been discontinued. I don't believe they were discontinued because they were bad cigars. Many were great cigars, taking the place the ubiquitous, mediocre hoards of cigars that Tabacuba made and still makes. Good taste does not define a trend. Just look around you! If you are a trend follower then you think you and others posses that taste. If you are on the outside then you may be ambivalent to it, or even disgusted by it… It all depends on who you are. My parents disliked long hair and a lot of rock music. I am not a fan of rap, and nose piercings… If one believes that they have good taste, and I think that we all do (think that), then those with opposing views will posses, "poor taste" when they are different. Sorry for the ancillary thoughts… Cheers! -Piggy 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strada Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Lance's post was a reflection. A nuanced and honest reverie including an open-eyed acknowledgement of "rose colored glasses" and the allure of that which has been lost. I consider myself a cigar utiliarian, but even I recognize that there are many flavors of special. It is our ability to appreciate this richness of experience that raises Habanos above mere activity or fascination. How we respond to the opportunity to share or burn a relic is situational. It is also reflective of our temperament and personality. Given the chance, I would share. But along with the cigar would come a story about what this particular cigar meant to me. How it figured in my journey. I suppose that if I provide something meaningful to me, I at least want to pass some of that on to the recipient. Call it "paying the piper" if you will. Thank you for posting, Lance. Wilkey Wilkey with the sensei response! I concur.Let me know next time you are in down my friend! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWC Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Never give newbies discontinued sticks - why subject them to the torture of having to hunt for them? Ignorance is bliss... I agree. I've intentionally stayed away from discontinued or rare smokes. Why should I risk falling in love with something I can't get? There's enough regular/current production that I still haven't tried to keep me busy for a few more years yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginseng Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I have to agree that discontinuation does not make a bad cigar a sublime one. Discontinuations, while I was not consulted about any of them so I am speculating, are likely commercial decisions. ... Cheers! -Piggy Many good points, Sir Pig. I won't slavishly copy and paste. Rather, let me echo that all evidence, circumstantial and direct, supports the statement that commerce considerations primarily drive discontinuations. Of this there can be little doubt. What sells reflects the taste of the times. Well, to be more precise, the zeitgeist of the mass market. When a product is a commodity, can there be any other way? Habanos, for the most part, are commodities. Rank and file cigars are the Timex, Fossil, and Invictas of the cigar world. Is it even possible for there to be such as the Breguet or IWC of cigars? Not for the cigars themselves. Only for special assemblies such as the 40 Aniversario Behike Humidor or any one of the Habanos Festival Auction humidors, for example. As such, the cigars that people buy not only reflect the tastes of the mass market smoker, but shape the taste of the new smoker. By this I mean not just for the tobacco itself, but for the context of use as well as the perceived and communicated value. (i.e., an ornate band and 60 ring tells the world I've got it going on). The stylish new smoking milieu. It is a feedback loop. Big fat cigars reflect the ways in which people come to use them and thus reinforce one pattern of production. Small, thin cigars reflect a more considerate, more challenging, and demanding relationship between the thoughtful smoker and the cigar. But I'm afraid, this is precisely the kind of thing that is waning in the modern world of twitter bits and "first and fast" as the predominant value. However, to be truly circumspect, I think we must ask from whence this love of the skinnies arises? Is it any more than the residue of a vanished time? Is it more properly considered an anachronism, not just out of fashion, but out of time as well? Whatever the case, this I know: the winnowing of offerings has decreased the range of expressions of the Habanos available to new smokers. In fact, it leads me to fear, given the trend, will it even be possible to cultivate a Habanophile 5 years from now. Are we a vanishing breed? How much will there be to talk about if every cigar is 60 rg x 160 mm? This is my greatest fear. Wilkey Let me know next time you are in down my friend! Simon I certainly will, Simon. It's been entirely too long since I've visited my Canadian compatriots. My business has brought me mostly points west this year: Vancouver, Calgary. Wilkey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I say smoke em'. If you don't like it, make a note and reach for something else. That's how we learn what we like and what we don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 To echo what pig and Wilkes stated, as well as others, your 4th sentence about perceived greatness sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Whatever the case, this I know: the winnowing of offerings has decreased the range of expressions of the Habanos available to new smokers. In fact, it leads me to fear, given the trend, will it even be possible to cultivate a Habanophile 5 years from now. Are we a vanishing breed? How much will there be to talk about if every cigar is 60 rg x 160 mm? This is my greatest fear. Wilkey This is very realistic, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Many good points, Sir Pig. I won't slavishly copy and paste. Rather, let me echo that all evidence, circumstantial and direct, supports the statement that commerce considerations primarily drive discontinuations. Of this there can be little doubt. What sells reflects the taste of the times. Well, to be more precise, the zeitgeist of the mass market. When a product is a commodity, can there be any other way? Habanos, for the most part, are commodities. Rank and file cigars are the Timex, Fossil, and Invictas of the cigar world. Is it even possible for there to be such as the Breguet or IWC of cigars? Not for the cigars themselves. Only for special assemblies such as the 40 Aniversario Behike Humidor or any one of the Habanos Festival Auction humidors, for example. As such, the cigars that people buy not only reflect the tastes of the mass market smoker, but shape the taste of the new smoker. By this I mean not just for the tobacco itself, but for the context of use as well as the perceived and communicated value. (i.e., an ornate band and 60 ring tells the world I've got it going on). The stylish new smoking milieu. It is a feedback loop. Big fat cigars reflect the ways in which people come to use them and thus reinforce one pattern of production. Small, thin cigars reflect a more considerate, more challenging, and demanding relationship between the thoughtful smoker and the cigar. But I'm afraid, this is precisely the kind of thing that is waning in the modern world of twitter bits and "first and fast" as the predominant value. However, to be truly circumspect, I think we must ask from whence this love of the skinnies arises? Is it any more than the residue of a vanished time? Is it more properly considered an anachronism, not just out of fashion, but out of time as well? Whatever the case, this I know: the winnowing of offerings has decreased the range of expressions of the Habanos available to new smokers. In fact, it leads me to fear, given the trend, will it even be possible to cultivate a Habanophile 5 years from now. Are we a vanishing breed? How much will there be to talk about if every cigar is 60 rg x 160 mm? This is my greatest fear. Wilkey I certainly will, Simon. It's been entirely too long since I've visited my Canadian compatriots. My business has brought me mostly points west this year: Vancouver, Calgary. Wilkey Great post my friend… Tabacuba (IMHO) has largely stolen the ability for the Habanos smoker to mature. Furthermore, by increasing prices, they have affected the ability to stock, hoard or age your own cigars. (Perhaps not for this group, but for many that smoking might appeal to, including neophytes) I do truly believe that their model is for you to smoke less, pay more for less and control the secondary market for their cigars. They want you to be forced to experiment and unless you have the fortitude and the funding to heavily invest in untested cigars, there will never be a cache of the great ones to be carried into the future and then into the secondary market. Controlling distribution and pricing is one thing… pricing to the market another, but attempting to control the secondary market by under producing (limited and ever-changing models) and offering a limited range of products is suicide! They are asking to be kicked from the top of heap! By definition (mine anyway) cigars are Timex watches. They are disposable cameras, they will never be Zeiss, Leica or Rolex! A great cigar is an idea for all times and any occasion… A luxury cigar is an affront to what cigar smoking is and ever was… While I am a Habanos smoker, and a dedicated one, I do look forward to the day that I am not dependent on Tabacuba for my cigar fix… I would love to replace them and would if I could. -Piggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 While I am a Habanos smoker, and a dedicated one, I do look forward to the day that I am not dependent on Tabacuba for my cigar fix I would love to replace them and would if I could. -Piggy I honestly think I get where you're going with that but out of context, based on your last paragraph (herein quoted) it sounds (read 'opinion') like you don't enjoy smoking CCs anymore as the hobby has become a source of worries...Maybe you're ripe for an intervention; group hug with 30 days straight of smoking only the latest REs and LEs I don't share your mindset on the matter for many reasons, including my lack of appreciation for whining and my lack of desire for putting any energy trying to change things that I can only learn to accept and adapt to as a constructive option. Call it wisdom... To each his own, and I hope you see absolutely no attack in my post as none were intended. People around me who live to a ripe old age and get better with years are the positive, ever adapting ones. One day, if one lives long enough, all your friends die on you. The constructive way is to keep making new friends Cheers and stay verbose! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 .... based on your last paragraph (herein quoted) it sounds (read 'opinion') like you don't enjoy smoking CCs anymore ...... Obviously I can't know exactly what Ray may have had in mind, but I look at it simply as looking forward to the day when there is no longer a monopoly on the production of Cuban cigars - which I would agree with wholeheartedly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Obviously I can't know exactly what Ray may have had in mind, but I look at it simply as looking forward to the day when there is no longer a monopoly on the production of Cuban cigars - which I would agree with wholeheartedly.Very good point Colt. As I have no idea when that might happen, the wait could last a while. I vouch to enjoy the meantime in the many ways available to me right now. Seize the day, if you may word it so. We also have limited control over whether any change to the status quo will bear fruits everybody will be (first degree wise) wholeheartedly happy with...In my limited life experience, not everybody is ever happy with anything to begin with Thanks for chiming in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I vouch to enjoy the meantime in the many ways available to me right now. Seize the day, if you may word it so. With which I agree wholeheartedly as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangolf18 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Depends on the stick and who I'm giving it to. I think a more experienced aficionado would appreciate a discontinued stick more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 ... looking forward to the day when there is no longer a monopoly on the production of Cuban cigars - which I would agree with wholeheartedly. But is the monopoly the main problem? After all, all these great cigars from the past were blended and rolled under a monopoly, and at a time when Cuba had much less interaction with the "rich" world (roughly said)… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.e2a46b57b5880109ddf171d1b6f9daea.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now