My Wineador project progress


CigarSeeker

Recommended Posts

I'm quick on the ordering stuff I have no clue about. My wireless hygrometer arrived today also. Where did you end up placing the sensor for the 419 unit. This, I just ordered now. I was reading your other post.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I drilled from the back towards the bottom corner and then used safe aquarium silicone sealer from the outside and inside. Remember while you're doing all this I recommend that you keep your stock somewhere else. The sealant takes 24-48 hours. I left it alone for 3 days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One should understand that temperature/rH and equilibrium moisture content in tobacco is a relationship. It is not directly correlated or really analogous to looking at the rH and temperature of air, for instance. It does not work the same. Space competes with tobacco for water, where water works like water in space, but as a bonded substance in tobacco.

What you need to consider with lower temperatures is not related to ideas about absolute moisture content, but to how tobacco bonds to water. It is empirically derived and calculated from experiment.

The lower the temperature the slower water will migrate from tobacco and the stronger the tobacco bonds with water will be. This is solely due to the energy of water, based on its temperature which it will acquire from the surrounding air.

Stints at low temperature will not hurt anything as long as water is bonded in molecular fashion and not in a liquid state. Freezing for example does not damage cigars, not on the short-term anyway. What it does do, is lock up the water in the cigar and keeps it from migrating away from the cigar, even if the ambient environment is dry.

The worry comes with cold humid environments where water may want to bond to tobacco and cause water molecules to join up in the tobacco. Now you have the necessary water to support mold, and that is when you will likely get it!

Cheers! -Piggy

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One should understand that temperature/rH and equilibrium moisture content in tobacco is a relationship. It is not directly correlated or really analogous to looking at the rH and temperature of air, for instance. It does not work the same. Space competes with tobacco for water, where water works like water in space, but as a bonded substance in tobacco.

What you need to consider with lower temperatures is not related to ideas about absolute moisture content, but to how tobacco bonds to water. It is empirically derived and calculated from experiment.

The lower the temperature the slower water will migrate from tobacco and the stronger the tobacco bonds with water will be. This is solely due to the energy of water, based on its temperature which it will acquire from the surrounding air.

Stints at low temperature will not hurt anything as long as water is bonded in molecular fashion and not in a liquid state. Freezing for example does not damage cigars, not on the short-term anyway. What it does do, is lock up the water in the cigar and keeps it from migrating away from the cigar, even if the ambient environment is dry.

The worry comes with cold humid environments where water may want to bond to tobacco and cause water molecules to join up in the tobacco. Now you have the necessary water to support mold, and that is when you will likely get it!

Cheers! -Piggy

Learn something new every day, thanks.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One should understand that temperature/rH and equilibrium moisture content in tobacco is a relationship. It is not directly correlated or really analogous to looking at the rH and temperature of air, for instance. It does not work the same. Space competes with tobacco for water, where water works like water in space, but as a bonded substance in tobacco.

What you need to consider with lower temperatures is not related to ideas about absolute moisture content, but to how tobacco bonds to water. It is empirically derived and calculated from experiment.

The lower the temperature the slower water will migrate from tobacco and the stronger the tobacco bonds with water will be. This is solely due to the energy of water, based on its temperature which it will acquire from the surrounding air.

Stints at low temperature will not hurt anything as long as water is bonded in molecular fashion and not in a liquid state. Freezing for example does not damage cigars, not on the short-term anyway. What it does do, is lock up the water in the cigar and keeps it from migrating away from the cigar, even if the ambient environment is dry.

The worry comes with cold humid environments where water may want to bond to tobacco and cause water molecules to join up in the tobacco. Now you have the necessary water to support mold, and that is when you will likely get it!

Cheers! -Piggy

Piggy,

Im sure that I may be able to find this information on some of your past posts. Forgive me if I am of bother to you and all with a question, but, what temperature is considered to be cold? My unit is dropping down to 62F at the lowest on cold evenings based on the fan pulling ambient air when the cooling unit isn't running. I jumped in a little too deep with 24;24 (probably typical excited forum newbie) and am in fear of the dreaded "M" word.... I don't want to say it.

Respect to you and all the pro's

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I just finished reading a post that I searched for. I should've done that before asking my last question.

Im learning the navigation of this forum. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Disregard my question which has been asked so may times and answered as much... enough to promote carpel tunnel syndrome.

Keep em lit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cold, is a relative word.

I cannot go to a book, look at a table and tell you what the percent moisture content of your tobacco will be given two numbers. That table does not exist, not for me, and not for a Cuban cigar, not that I know of anyway.

So what you are asking is my 'feeling' about it. My 'feeling' comes from trying and testing. It comes from a guy who has achieved some form of real stability in a controlled humidor for the long term.

I have attempted to store cigars in 65˚F and 65rH before. I got this number from (well it does not matter) but I tried it...

In general I found the cigars to be too moist. That is a matter of taste. But after a year or so of storing like this I found that some of the paper products in the humidor, dress boxes and outer covers for certain cigar boxes (that flimsy cardboard) began to get a mildew smell. I had some Ashton VSG cigars that were actively growing mold...

I was done with the experiment!

My definition of cold is any temperature below 70F. I currently store at 70F to hedge the beetle argument. There is no other reason to store their (IMHO). I have often considered moving humidors closer to 75F, but I am a creature of habit, and once discovering that my cigars are consistently well conditioned at 70/60 there is no real reason to continue to change them except for the sake of experimentation.

To be honest, most in the community don't except my premise that 65/65 is too wet. Knowing what I know of how people build humidors verse how I build them, the instruments they use verses what I use, I am convinced that I have a better handle on this than others. My experience with other smokers (and many of my customers) is they are using a $10 hygrometer that would not reach 100rH if you dropped it in a glass of water, and they are telling themselves and the world how well their systems work. I believe, they just don't know!!!

With that limited experience, and limited instrumentation they are happy tell the world that they have solved the high heat cigar storage "problem" with a wine cooler, and 2lbs of cat litter.

I am not in the position to tell others what does not work, not unless they ask. There is truth to the term ignorance is bliss... I am into telling others what I have proven to work. What I can prove works by producing data logs to prove it works, all with the caveat, "not that anything less does not work." That is all a matter of opinion.

What I have proven to myself is that 65/65 is too wet... This would make 64/65 wetter. And 64/66 wetter still.... While (depending on the tobacco) 65/65 may or may not be the actual number that creates capillary water, when one uses and instrument that might be +- 5rH at that temperature, I have to ask, is it worth the risk?

That is for you to decide for yourself. That is where I will leave you!

Cheers! -Piggy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers to you too! I admire your knowledge. I understand the points you have well described. Thank you for sharing with me what you find to be your ideal settings... getting there for me will be the mission. For now I will settle with the equipment I have and when the time and finance becomes greater I will request to obtain (purchase if need be) a more sophisticated unit for storage. My experiment continues.

Thanks again Piggy

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I recently moved back to Florida after living in California for two decades. The Florida heat and humidity has been a catalyst to rethink my setup. My simple desktop humidor has been running between 73F and 77F at with rH between 65% and 67%. I've had no issues with my cigars, but I have mild concern about cigar beetles.

So... after much review of the humidor threads on this forum I recently took the plunge and ordered a NewAir 281e wine cooler, some HCM 65% rH beads and a back-up UPS to protect from frequent power issues caused by thunderstorms.

The wine cooler and cigar beads should arrive early next week and the adventure will begin. I plan to take it very slow, will allow the cooler plenty of time to stabilize before loading it with any product and will also keep tabs on the threads of discussion (as they have been very helpful and informative). My goal is to maintain a constant temperature around 65F with rH between 62% and 65%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I have the Newair model cc300 and it has a thermostat that holds 70F pretty well in my house with ambient temps at 76F.

I have the fans you used and they are doing great.  I am just letting them run continuously on high and it seems to be going well so far.

Experiment in progress.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

Sorry to bump an old threat. @CigarSeeker, with the Johnson A419 control, did you end up keeping the sensor on the left cedar strip on the back wall of the wineador? I working on a new wineador and never knew about the Johnson control until coming across your post, so wanted to see what ended up working for you. I really like this setup and will probably end up with a similar design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc.