Fake Bolivar Libertadors and R&J Romeo de Luxe?


ThePolskiOgorki

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So these were gifted to me by my boss. He bought them in St. Marten. Best to my knowledge we are not permitted to discuss sources so I will leave that out. I will tell you he said he has bought at the same place for friends in the past and the owner says he is the biggest distributor in the Caribbean outside of Cuba. It may be true.

Once I received them I didn't know if I should tell him that they were most likely fake, but I decided to anyway. Felt like if I were him I would want to know.  Since he travels to St. Marten often I gave him detailed notes and picture much like below as ammunition to take back to his so called seller so he can question him face to face.

So here they are.

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Habanos label, LCDH Exclusive label and the bolivar label all look and feel legit. Warranty seal is off. 

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The colour of green is wrong and the font is wrong on the hologram for Habanos. I have never seen a hologram like this. Has anyone?

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Had to peel the health warning off to see the code. Why is the health warning on the warranty seal? Strategy? When I checked out the code it came back as MC Edmundos (I think, can't remember, too lazy now to double check). Wouldnt be the first time one of these was wrong, but this seal doesn't look legit to me!

 

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No clue if this was a factory code in 2014. Font looks different from any of the others I have ever seen. Lots of different stamps out these. 

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Now the cigars. Beautifully rolled, they smell great, bands look exactly as they should. If these came to me with no box I wouldn't even be questioning them. 

 

Now the Rome de Luxe

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Where is the Habanos sticker and the EL sticker? Every box of these I have ever seen had them on the outer carboard dress box these are supposed to come in (did I mention these didn't come with one? Haha) AND on the varnished box. 

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No date stamp. There was a health warning on the bottom where it could of been. Also strategically placed. I peeled it off to see if the code was there and....nope.

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These look and feel right. Although the colour on the gold swirls/filigree on the care instructions are different from others I have and it doesn't have any golden shimmer to it. Not all of the ones I have do, but it is worth mentioning. 

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I have seen boxes with stickers in place of the stamped logo on the lid and I have seen boxes without. Not sure what is right. Maybe either or. 

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Aside from a couple where the caps look like someone got a little generous with the pectin glue, these are equally as good as the bolivars. Wrapper colour is typical of an EL, the aroma is nice and chocolately as it should be for an EL and the bands look and feel legit. 

I have not smoked any of them, but because the cigar themselves actually look proper, I do plan on trying one of each before the winter. They are taking a little rest after a stint in the freezer. Never know, maybe they are good!

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Really interesting, thanks for sharing. The QC in packaging, labeling, even rolling, etc is so inconsistent it is sometimes really hard to know. Keep us posted.

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It's not about QC inconsistency, it is clear fake we are dealing with here - or let's better be precise and say 'non-legit' production.

Just one single aspect: The warranty seal is a (very) poor imitation. Why should someone put a fake seal on legit production?!!

More to spot, but guess we can keep it at that.

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1 hour ago, Fugu said:

It's not about QC inconsistency, it is clear fake we are dealing with here - or let's better be precise and say 'non-legit' production.

Just one single aspect: The warranty seal is a (very) poor imitation. Why should someone put a fake seal on legit production?!!

More to spot, but guess we can keep it at that.

Ive seen much lower quality fake warranty seals than this one, but yes its definitely fake. Another "close, but no cigar" the hologram works, but is the wrong pattern. I guess some people are OK getting 60% of the way there. 

Thanks @ThePolskiOgorki for sharing these, those sticks are some of the best looking fakes I have seen, If somebody handed me one of those in a smoky cigar bar after a few drinks I probably wouldn't have given them a second look. It looks to me like somebody has access to a mix of different "real" habanos packaging and some mid level fake seals and stamps. The boxes and their seals (or lack there of) tell the real story though. 

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12 hours ago, RijkdeGooier said:

How do the heads look - double cap? It is difficult to make out from these pictures.

Heads are triple capped and look good. 

 

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Ive seen much lower quality fake warranty seals than this one, but yes its definitely fake. Another "close, but no cigar" the hologram works, but is the wrong pattern. I guess some people are OK getting 60% of the way there. 

Thanks @ThePolskiOgorki for sharing these, those sticks are some of the best looking fakes I have seen, If somebody handed me one of those in a smoky cigar bar after a few drinks I probably wouldn't have given them a second look. It looks to me like somebody has access to a mix of different "real" habanos packaging and some mid level fake seals and stamps. The boxes and their seals (or lack there of) tell the real story though. 

I don't think you need drinks and a smokey cigar lounge to be fooled here. I have put the Libertadors side by side with ones from another box I have and they are the right length and gauge. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They are that good.

And I really want to believe the whole "it is Cuba being Cuba" quality control thing and say there is a chance they are real, but if there is any reason to doubt them than you may as well assume they are not. 

 

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Gents, to repeat, the point here is not about "is this a real Cuban cigar?" or even "is this the real stick" or not. It is about fraud.

That's the reason I put it rather as being "non-legit" and not necessarily "fake". When seeing a 'self-drawn' warranty seal I am simply not interested anymore in what's actually contained. Not worth debating. Perhaps Polski got lucky indeed, and we are dealing with the "real" sticks here that have been smuggled out of the fabrica (less likely nowadays). But anyway, let's just assume this to be the case. Still, these are non-legit boxes of cigars for which Polski's boss had shelled out serious coin (I assume so). Would be a slightly different issue when bought for 40 CUC in a backstreet of Havana. You know what you get there, and you'll pay accordingly.

This here I call fraud and a shitty business practice of a certain shop in St Marten, that's actually worth being made public. They will know what they are selling there! [first get in touch with mods/Rob for permission, if you have in mind disclosing the source]. This is fraud, irrespective of what's actually contained in these boxes! Would you take a chance at regular price on such boxes? Of course you wouldn't! And people, you know what - there are certain reasons for the particular anti-counterfeit security measures. I have always difficulties to follow the regularly heard mindset of BOTLs ignoring all this and putting it as - well it doesn't seem to be legit, but the sticks smell fantastic and come with a triple cap, so perhaps I got the real deal...- Friends, this is naive.

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