Montecristo No. 4

[Arctic Dude]

New to the forum here so please be gentle with my first question. I just received a box of Montecristo No. 4's (box code TUP ABR 15) and was quite surprised to find a cardboard (not cedar) divider between the top and bottom rows of cigars. I have not encountered this with any other boxes. Has anyone else encountered this before? 

[Cep]

pics

[Arctic Dude]

Here is a picture...

[Corylax18]

Post a quick hello in the new memebers thread. 

I have never seen carboard in the middle before. Post some photos if possible. Many retailers qc check boxes before they sell them, but replacing the original cedar sheet with cardboard would not be OK with me. Does everything else regarding the box/sticks look good?

[Arctic Dude]

Everything else looks good, Corylax 18. Pics to come shortly. 

[Arctic Dude]

Here you are...

[Corylax18]

The cigars and box dont look bad, did the serial # check out on the HSA site?

[NSXCIGAR]

If everything else looked good, I would just chalk it up to factory error. Odd that the cardboard is cut to the cedar spec, but perhaps something got left in the machine. It is possible as an awful lot of Monte 4 gets cranked out. Was the box sealed on arrival? Do the serial numbers check out on HSA's website?

That box looks pretty beat up around the edges though, but at first glance the cigars appear to be genuine. I would contact your vendor to ask if they 1) remove the cedar sheet themselves or 2) inspect the boxes for this. Personally, I would never buy Monte 4 from a vendor I didn't trust and that didn't inspect the boxes well for a multitude of reasons. 

Welcome to FOH, and I don't think you'll be having any such issues and will probably be paying a bit less if you use a vendor like Rob.

[Arctic Dude]

Thanks for your help, Gents! Yes, the number does check out on the HSA website. They box was not sealed on arrival as apparently they are inspected before being shipped out. They smell great and look quite decently made. I will check with the vendor to see if they have any thoughts about this. 

Thanks a bunch! 

[SCgarman]

57 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If everything else looked good, I would just chalk it up to factory error. Odd that the cardboard is cut to the cedar spec, but perhaps something got left in the machine. It is possible as an awful lot of Monte 4 gets cranked out. Was the box sealed on arrival? Do the serial numbers check out on HSA's website?

That box looks pretty beat up around the edges though, but at first glance the cigars appear to be genuine. I would contact your vendor to ask if they 1) remove the cedar sheet themselves or 2) inspect the boxes for this. Personally, I would never buy Monte 4 from a vendor I didn't trust and that didn't inspect the boxes well for a multitude of reasons. 

Welcome to FOH, and I don't think you'll be having any such issues and will probably be paying a bit less if you use a vendor like Rob.

I would simply chalk this up to an error in packaging, and not anything to do with the OP's vendor. Rob has posted plenty of pics here of boxes with seals misplaced, boxes missing cigars, cigars in box in different directions. Hell, it's Cuba after all. Nothing surprises me anymore with their crappy QC.

[Arctic Dude]

Thanks NYgarman......kinda my thoughts, but was just curious whether anyone else had encountered THIS specific quality control issue?!  Likely all kinds for sure! 

[hellorockview12]

Was Habanos using the gold bands on MC4 by ABR 15?

[Lotusguy]

Never saw a cardboard sheet before but Cuba is Cuba and if the rest checks out...

[bnasse9900]

Playing detective on this stuff can be fun, and hopefully the facts lead to this being a legit box.  

Have you smoked any/many MC4's before?  Unless you plan on trying to get a refund (best of luck), maybe smoke one and see what you think?  And, if you've never smoked this cigar before, smoke one anyways.

I'm good at making lemonade.  A few years ago when I first started getting into the cigar world, I bought a box of "real" Cubans while on vacation in the DR.  After I figured out they were fake, I just said "screw it" and smoked one anyways.  I actually liked the cigar.

Years later, I smoked another one of the fakes.  It's definitely not up to par with the original (Cohiba Maduro 5), but still an enjoyable cigar.

Also, as you'll quickly learn, there's a ton of variation within the same vitola (year over year, month over month, and even within boxes of from the same date/factory).

There's a good chance that these are real.  But even if they aren't, light one up.  If you like it, it'll still be a good day of smoking.

Happy smoking.

-Brody

[Arctic Dude]

Thanks Brody...I will light one up soon enough (the weather isn't exactly cooperating right now...-27°C with the windchill this morning). I've had a few No. 2's and have gone through quite a number of the No. 5's, but haven't sampled a No. 4 before. They certainly smell right to my rather newbie nose, and everything else checks out. I'm gonna attribute this to a weird day at the factory and hope for the best! ??

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, NYgarman said:

I would simply chalk this up to an error in packaging, and not anything to do with the OP's vendor. Rob has posted plenty of pics here of boxes with seals misplaced, boxes missing cigars, cigars in box in different directions. Hell, it's Cuba after all. Nothing surprises me anymore with their crappy QC.

I agree, but Rob doesn't sell cigars like that. What are the chances of receiving that in a box from Rob? Zero, as this would have been caught by any vendor that claims to inspect and actually does so. You never know with some of the wacky vendors out there. I'm just saying, eliminate the vendor from the equation. If they claim to have inspected, clearly they didn't, and that means a dishonest vendor. I'd let the vendor know anyhow. Perhaps their inspection process isn't as thorough as they think it is. 

But yes, I'd agree as I originally stated that this is likely a factory error. Looks like it might be the same cardboard that the varnished boxes come in. 

[NSXCIGAR]

40 minutes ago, hellorockview12 said:

Was Habanos using the gold bands on MC4 by ABR 15?

Not on Monte 4. Those were slow to adopt the new band, as was the No 5. I received a box of MAR 15 that still has the old style. I don't think the full transition was made until mid-late 15.

[Arctic Dude]

Thanks for the input, NSXCIGAR...you are certainly right about the inspection process! ??

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I agree, but Rob doesn't sell cigars like that. What are the chances of receiving that in a box from Rob? Zero, as this would have been caught by any vendor that claims to inspect and actually does so. You never know with some of the wacky vendors out there. I'm just saying, eliminate the vendor from the equation. If they claim to have inspected, clearly they didn't, and that means a dishonest vendor. I'd let the vendor know anyhow. Perhaps their inspection process isn't as thorough as they think it is. 

But yes, I'd agree as I originally stated that this is likely a factory error. Looks like it might be the same cardboard that the varnished boxes come in. 

Disagree. Many vendors that inspect may just crack the box open and look at the top row of cigars. If no signs of mold or beetle holes, the lid closes and out into the mail they go. Unless you lift out the top row, one wouldn't notice the cedar sheet is cardboard instead of cedar, as its barely visible. The cigars are legit and bottom line is that is all that matters. You don't smoke the divider or the box, and I certainly wouldn't throw this vendor under the bus whomever he/she may be. I buy all my boxes from a source other than our host, and have been very happy with my deliveries for many years.

[LLC]

Was Habanos using the gold bands on MC4 by ABR 15?

I have a box of RAE MAR 15 HQ from Rob with the new bands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dominattorney]

6 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Not on Monte 4. Those were slow to adopt the new band, as was the No 5. I received a box of MAR 15 that still has the old style. I don't think the full transition was made until mid-late 15.

I was wondering the same thing. 

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, NYgarman said:

Disagree. Many vendors that inspect may just crack the box open and look at the top row of cigars. If no signs of mold or beetle holes, the lid closes and out into the mail they go. Unless you lift out the top row, one wouldn't notice the cedar sheet is cardboard instead of cedar, as its barely visible. The cigars are legit and bottom line is that is all that matters. You don't smoke the divider or the box, and I certainly wouldn't throw this vendor under the bus whomever he/she may be. I buy all my boxes from a source other than our host, and have been very happy with my deliveries for many years.

Well, then I would not classify what you describe as an adequate inspection despite a vendor calling it an "inspection". A quick peek inside a box does not meet the level of inspection that I expect when that term is used. Now, do I often purchase blind or from vendors who "inspect" along the lines you describe? Yes. But I fully understand that prior to purchase. But I would never buy a cigar like Monte 4, Monte 2 or PSD4 that way. My point is that if the OP's vendor claims they "inspect", understand that this is an inspection in name only and is only slightly better than buying blind as you're only reducing the chances of total disaster, but then again, a total disaster would result in a refund/exchange anyway.

I'm not disparaging a vendor simply because they don't inspect. I would disparage a vendor who claims to inspect more thoroughly than just making sure there are 13 cigars in the top row not riddled with beetle holes and then a box w/ an oddball divider sheet turns up. My original statement was simply that if one's vendor inspects thoroughly these issues don't ever come up. When one buys blind, they can come up. 

[Danimalia]

11 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If everything else looked good, I would just chalk it up to factory error. Odd that the cardboard is cut to the cedar spec, but perhaps something got left in the machine.

This sounds really plausible if cardboard is used on top/bottom of cedar sheets put into cutter for box shaping. 

[Realmikemeadows]

Is it possible that upon inspection the vendor found that the cedar sheet was broken or damaged and replaced it with cardboard to maintain the integrity of the packaging? As mentioned above the box does look really beat up on the outside. Ultimately the fire on the end of the stick seems to be the best indicator as to whether or not they are fake. Cheers

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[NSXCIGAR]

7 hours ago, Realmikemeadows said:

Is it possible that upon inspection the vendor found that the cedar sheet was broken or damaged and replaced it with cardboard to maintain the integrity of the packaging? As mentioned above the box does look really beat up on the outside. Ultimately the fire on the end of the stick seems to be the best indicator as to whether or not they are fake. Cheers

No--that cardboard divider came from Cuba. That's cut precisely to the cedar sheet spec for Mareva 25s and was probably left in the machine that cuts the sheets. The vendor wouldn't have that on hand--no one would. Much more likely they'd have another Mareva 25 cedar sheet lying around. If a vendor inspects to the degree that a damaged divider would be discovered, that box would have simply rejected and returned to the distributor. There are plenty of boxes of Monte 4 to go around. The vendor would reject a box of Monte 4 for any small reason if they were in the habit of doing so. 

I don't think there's much disagreement on these being genuine. I'm simply pointing out that the vendor's inspection practices are lacking or non-existent. Which is fine, but the OP should take that into account in the future and know that there are vendors who's prices are probably as low or lower and who inspect thoroughly for things like this and more (Rob)--something I value when buying cigars with extreme quality variance like Monte 4.