Cohiba Talisman box codes (so far ...)

[Guest Nekhyludov]

Despite the fact that Habanos claims that the Talisman is rolled at El Laguito (http://halfwheel.com/cohiba-talisman-el-2017/248720), I've noticed - at this point - three different codes on Talisman boxes that appear to be reliably legitimate: UTL, TPO, and BRE.

I believe there's been some suggestion that BRE is currently the Upmann factory?

I have no interest whatsoever in the Talisman, just thought this was curious. 

 

[Benzopyrene]

UAO- current Lagito Code, MOL, TRU, FUM, TPO, BRE.....these all came from @Bartolomeo, so cant take credit. 

[Benzopyrene]

Basically they are making these everywhere and still cant keep up with demand. 

[NSXCIGAR]

This is the second instance of HSA claiming all cigars of a particular model are made exclusively at EL but have box codes not consistent with EL (The RA Phoenecio 35 is the first).

I don't know why HSA would be foolish enough to make a claim that is so obviously contradicted by the box codes that anyone can see. They must really think we're so dumb we that we have no clue as to what codes come from what factory as their codes are so hard to crack, but even then once you have multiple codes they're obviously not coming from one factory. 

I don't think anyone can rely on what HSA says about anything being rolled exclusively at any factory anymore after this. Just...why HSA? 

The official claim of exclusive EL production of the Talisman:

http://www.habanos.com/en/noticias/habanos-s-a-presenta-en-londres-el-cohiba-talisman-edicion-limitada-2017/

[Fugu]

Haha, seems another great Halfweel-info....

No such claim made there (Spanish version is clearcut, the English translation may be a bit misleading). And why should HSA do such anyway...? Don't blame HSA for spreading false info, misquoted by Halfweel (they should have questioned such info in the first place - what are these folks doing there?!).

[luvdunhill]

What are the odds there is more than one EL code?

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

(Spanish version is clearcut, the English translation may be a bit misleading)

You may be on to something.

The English translation seems fairly clear: This product is produced and developed following meticulous manufacturing processes at the legendary El Laguito factory, in Havana. Produced, to me and pretty much anyone knowledgeable in cigars, means made or rolled, so this seems pretty definitive. And manufacturing processes at the legendary El Laguito factory... seems to also leave little room for interpretation. 

Interestingly, however, when I switch to the Spanish version, the Google translator gives an alternative translation: The careful conception and development of this product has been carried out in the mythical factory El Laguito, in Havana. This version seems to have some wiggle room. Not only is anything about manufacturing gone but the word "produced" is now replaced with conception which doesn't imply they are actually made there, just that it could have been thought up there, essentially. It seems HSA gives "produced" as the translation of the Spanish word concepción and Google translates concepción more closely in English as conception. Perhaps overly simplistic, but it seems to me that conception is the closer translation than production for the Spanish word concepción.

Perhaps someone who speaks Spanish can give a more accurate translation of the original version: La cuidadosa concepción y desarrollo de este producto se ha llevado a cabo en la mítica fábrica El Laguito, en La Habana.

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

Also find it amusing Halfwheel gave this a rating consistent with a dog rocket...ha!

[Fugu]

16 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

This version seems to have some wiggle room

No, there is no wiggle room, NSX - and I am not using Google's translator, my Spanish still suffices.... haha.

The original text - concepción and desarollo - meaning, the conception and development of this production have been set at EL. Nothing less, nothing more.

[Fugu]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Also find it amusing Halfwheel gave this a rating consistent with a dog rocket...ha!

...haven't even read that far. I think this halfweel pub always needs to be taken with a fair grain of salt.

[Benzopyrene]

maybe each roller at El Lagito gets their own code ;-) Sorry couldn't help myself....HSA would probably clain they are being rolled by rollers that were at el Lagito, but had to be moved elsewhere to help fill a void. As it pertains to the 35th ann RA....I believe it was stated that only some of them would be rolled at el lagito. I think that came up in a video that is linked to a thread about it here. 

[MC4]

Halfwheel also says the following which i didn't know and find interesting:

 

"

• Interestingly, the Talismáns have new codes located on the back of each individual cigar band that are only visible when a black light is used.

"

 

 Can someone who has one post a pic.

[NSXCIGAR]

46 minutes ago, Benzopyrene said:

maybe each roller at El Lagito gets their own code ;-) Sorry couldn't help myself....HSA would probably clain they are being rolled by rollers that were at el Lagito, but had to be moved elsewhere to help fill a void. As it pertains to the 35th ann RA....I believe it was stated that only some of them would be rolled at el lagito. I think that came up in a video that is linked to a thread about it here. 

Yes, it was confirmed that some amount of the RA P35 were rolled outside of EL by Hisham Lofti of Phoenicia TAA due to what he called a "big quantity" needing to be produced. However, I consider this to be a huge dupe on HSA's part as each box includes the statement that all of them were rolled at EL and I find it quite absurd that 25,000 sticks would overwhelm EL when the number was known prior to production. 25,000 sticks should take 25 rollers maybe two weeks to produce or 10 rollers a month to produce. Not much. 

Bottom line--HSA made claims that are acknowledged to be false by the distributor. I'll let it slide on the Talisman as I agree with @Fugu that the claim of these being produced at EL may have been lost in translation on the HSA website, but in regards to the RA P35, it's a confirmed false statement. I just find it ridiculous that HSA is going to use the EL factory as a selling point for a relatively low production ER but can't even manage do that. It would be just as honest to stamp boxes coming out of other factories as EL as it is to include a document inside the box stating the cigars were rolled somewhere where they were not. 

[Dandan]

51 minutes ago, MC4 said:

Halfwheel also says the following which i didn't know and find interesting:

 

"

• Interestingly, the Talismáns have new codes located on the back of each individual cigar band that are only visible when a black light is used.

"

 

 Can someone who has one post a pic.

My box from the 24:24. Sorry I don’t know how to rotate the pics lol

[\spoiler]

[MC4]

35 minutes ago, Dandan said:

My box from the 24:24. Sorry I don’t know how to rotate the pics lol

 

  Hide contents

[\spoiler]

Thanks.  I think the code MOL would appear on the back of the band as well.  My understanding.

[jtfrizzy]

You may be on to something.
The English translation seems fairly clear: This product is produced and developed following meticulous manufacturing processes at the legendary El Laguito factory, in Havana. Produced, to me and pretty much anyone knowledgeable in cigars, means made or rolled, so this seems pretty definitive. And manufacturing processes at the legendary El Laguito factory... seems to also leave little room for interpretation. 
Interestingly, however, when I switch to the Spanish version, the Google translator gives an alternative translation: The careful conception and development of this product has been carried out in the mythical factory El Laguito, in Havana. This version seems to have some wiggle room. Not only is anything about manufacturing gone but the word "produced" is now replaced with conception which doesn't imply they are actually made there, just that it could have been thought up there, essentially. It seems HSA gives "produced" as the translation of the Spanish word concepción and Google translates concepción more closely in English as conception. Perhaps overly simplistic, but it seems to me that conception is the closer translation than production for the Spanish word concepción.
Perhaps someone who speaks Spanish can give a more accurate translation of the original version: La cuidadosa concepción y desarrollo de este producto se ha llevado a cabo en la mítica fábrica El Laguito, en La Habana.
 
 

Quite an interesting read here. Hmm I'll have to have my wife look at the original Spanish version in the morning. Spanish is her first language so maybe that'll help idk. It seems the two translations you have say two similar yet very different things. It seems clear that regardless of the correct translation there is definatly some deception on HSA's behalf with this, but I'm not sure to what extent. Based on the little Spanish I know the second translation seems a little more accurate which does give it more wiggle room I suppose idk. Tricky tricky HSA.

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[Bartolomeo]

1 hour ago, MC4 said:

Halfwheel also says the following which i didn't know and find interesting:

 

"

• Interestingly, the Talismáns have new codes located on the back of each individual cigar band that are only visible when a black light is used.

"

 

 Can someone who has one post a pic.

Also blue squares....

 

3rd pic shows pre-release Talisman from August w/ newer code being used compared to two Talisman from U.K. Launch using older stamped Cohiba bands

[Bartolomeo]

41 minutes ago, MC4 said:

Thanks.  I think the code MOL would appear on the back of the band as well.  My understanding.

No box codes on the new stamped bands i.e. MOL in the above case

[Benzopyrene]

@NSXCIGAR   I will look at my box of those RA's in the morning, but I did look for that on my box at one time and could find it....likely I just missed it, but I remember specifically being confused when I didnt see it. That could be interesting though if it isnt on my box will report back. cheers! 

[havanaclub]

Very interesting thread.
So the new Talisman bands won’t have the codes and blue dots appear under black light? Or are those fakes?



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[Fugu]

9 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

It would be just as honest to stamp boxes coming out of other factories as EL as it is to include a document inside the box stating the cigars were rolled somewhere where they were not. 

To be fair, these extra papers and leaftlets are often (mostly?) done and supplied by the respective importers of ERs not by HSA itself. HSA probably didn't final check or didn't give a damn. Albeit, true, it's not as if HSA wouldn't bear responsibility.....

[jtfrizzy]

You may be on to something.

The English translation seems fairly clear: This product is produced and developed following meticulous manufacturing processes at the legendary El Laguito factory, in Havana. Produced, to me and pretty much anyone knowledgeable in cigars, means made or rolled, so this seems pretty definitive. And manufacturing processes at the legendary El Laguito factory... seems to also leave little room for interpretation. 

Interestingly, however, when I switch to the Spanish version, the Google translator gives an alternative translation: The careful conception and development of this product has been carried out in the mythical factory El Laguito, in Havana. This version seems to have some wiggle room. Not only is anything about manufacturing gone but the word "produced" is now replaced with conception which doesn't imply they are actually made there, just that it could have been thought up there, essentially. It seems HSA gives "produced" as the translation of the Spanish word concepción and Google translates concepción more closely in English as conception. Perhaps overly simplistic, but it seems to me that conception is the closer translation than production for the Spanish word concepción.

Perhaps someone who speaks Spanish can give a more accurate translation of the original version: La cuidadosa concepción y desarrollo de este producto se ha llevado a cabo en la mítica fábrica El Laguito, en La Habana.

 

 

So I had my wife look at this and she said alot of the issues with the translation is some of the words/phrases don't translate completly accurate to English or could mean a few different things in English but the translation she gave me is this:

 

"The careful conception (or creation) and development of this product has been carried out (she added meaning that it was "step by step to completion" or "finished") in the mythical factory El Laguito, in Havana."

 

So the "step by step to completion" part she told me that gets sort of lost in the translation is what leads me to believe they are all made at El Laguito period, but the conception and development part doesn't mean it has to be produced there. Think of it as a car. A designer in Germany conceives and develops the car in Germany, builds the prototypes, tests them gets it all the way to completion at a factory in Bavaria and then when done sends out all the design documents and drawings on how to build the car to a factory in North America that will then build that car for the North American market and another factory for the European market etc etc.

 

So using that annology and getting back to cigars, I could conceive and develop a cigar in my basement. The whole process all the way to a competed product ready to smoke and then I decide I like my cigar so much I go to a cigar factory in Estelli Nicaragua per say and have them mass produce that cigar. It was conceived and developed in my basement still right? It was just largely produced at other factories. Since that original passage makes no mention of where the production takes place I think it leaves room for there to be other factories that may have been given the blend and rolling information probably with El Laguito's oversight to produce them so they can meet the demands of the market. That's just my thoughts on it, but who knows. Sorry for writing a book here this is just a very interesting topic.

 

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[Bartolomeo]

7 hours ago, havanaclub said:

Very interesting thread.
So the new Talisman bands won’t have the codes and blue dots appear under black light? Or are those fakes?



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I think there is a little confusion

Talisman will continue to have the codes associated with the new Cohiba band released in 2014 in addition with the blue dots....no cigar will have the "boxcode" on the band as asked above

Box bought last week in Havana to show, hope this clears it up

 

 

[havanaclub]

I think there is a little confusion
Talisman will continue to have the codes associated with the new Cohiba band released in 2014 in addition with the blue dots....no cigar will have the "boxcode" on the band as asked above
Box bought last week in Havana to show, hope this clears it up
 
 

Ok cool. Thanks Bart! Were they hard to find in Havana?


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[Bartolomeo]

2 minutes ago, havanaclub said:

 

Ok cool. Thanks Bart! Were they hard to find in Havana?


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I had a great friend get me some at cost.....they are down there but as mentioned before, "Joe Public" is having to pay a tip to get some from the back room or under the counter from my reports, also a ton of places rolling these right for the upcoming February festival