australia's most shameful day

[Ken Gargett]

not often i feel ashamed to be australian but to wake up and find that the australian captain conspired with other players to commit ball-tampering staggers belief. he must be sacked today and surely suspended for at least 12 months. same for that imbecile bancroft and anyone else aware of this. 

i was such a fan of smith as a cricketer. now i'd be delighted if he never touched a bat again. at least not for this nation. 

[99call]

Such a shame.

When a sportsman falls from grace like this, is just makes you appreciate those who truly navigate a whole career at the top without buggering it up. 

 

[Ken Gargett]

8 minutes ago, 99call said:

Such a shame.

When a sportsman falls from grace like this, is just makes you appreciate those who truly navigate a whole career at the top without buggering it up. 

 

just read he believes he should keep the captaincy. i would suggest that this is delusional. the sad thing is that one suspects administrators will cave in and slap him on the wrist and all be forgiven. 

[99call]

Yeah, I saw the interview on youtube. Very strange, as their tone seemed more of frustration of being caught, and communicating it in a sort of matter of fact 'tactic to win' that backfired. Cheating is not a tactic

I think players are being over-coached for press detail these days. It's like they're on auto-pilot, and not truly mentally engaging with what they've done. 

It's a sign of the times. when you have world leaders etc. who insist 'truth' is just how they perceive their own actions. i.e. "Dwelling on this is not positive for me, so lets just move on shall we"

[Webbo]

Looking from afar at this series it seems that something is not right with the team and management as a whole. For sure SA have not covered themselves in glory but the Aussies seem somehow out of control this tour. I blame Cricket Australia who I think have recently set a terrible example in a number of areas in the last few years. Smith as captain should rightly shoulder much of the blame, they are his team and play the game the way he guides them on and off the field, a brilliant run getter but a piss poor individual. The press conference was extraordinary, he clearly was sorry for getting caught not for breaking the law. He should have held up his hand and taken full responsibility, not throwing the young lad under the bus, with high office comes great responsibility, as a test captain he should behave as leader.

[Ken Gargett]

dragging out bancroft to explain, to me that heaps even more shame on smith and lehmann. smith, you spineless heap of steaming excrement. both must go immediately. 

no defence here for bancroft. needs a long suspension as well. i don't care that he was the young member of the team and didn't want to refuse his captain. he is an adult and knows right from wrong. 

as for smith going on about the leadership group - he is captain. the buck stops with him. but he won't name the leadership group (come on down, davey warner). the grub group - tomic, mundine, kyrgios - now ha a new member. smith. 

[Webbo]

Could not agree more Ken, spineless is the best description. I am also really disappointed with Lehmann, I know people who where involved with him during his time here at Yorkshire and they spoke so highly of him not just as a player but as man. All very sad and disappointing.

[99call]

2 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

no defence here for bancroft. 

Hhhmm. I think the only possible defence for Bancroft is that until sportsmen enter that top tier, they are naive to what has been going on.  When I first heard about Lance Armstrong, I was disgusted with him, and then you realise things like the 2nd 3rd and 4th place of the Tour de France were all proved blood dopers as well.

Yes, any young sports men or women, should have their own moral code, but if someone presents something to you, like it goes on all the time, then there could be a slight argument of being more naive, and easily led, than a willing cheat.  

I would argue that Steve Smith should lie in the bed he's made for himself and go, but.  Sadly, I think the opposite will happen, and Bancroft will be scapegoated.

[Ken Gargett]

20 minutes ago, 99call said:

Hhhmm. I think the only possible defence for Bancroft is that until sportsmen enter that top tier, they are naive to what has been going on.  When I first heard about Lance Armstrong, I was disgusted with him, and then you realise things like the 2nd 3rd and 4th place of the Tour de France were all proved blood dopers as well.

Yes, any young sports men or women, should have their own moral code, but if someone presents something to you, like it goes on all the time, then there could be a slight argument of being more naive, and easily led, than a willing cheat.  

I would argue that Steve Smith should lie in the bed he's made for himself and go, but.  Sadly, I think the opposite will happen, and Bancroft will be scapegoated.

i'm sure bancroft will cop it, hopefully he'll get all he deserves. but i don't buy that defence. he's been involved in cricket professionally all his professional life. unless he is seriously mentally impaired then he will have been fully aware of the issues of ball tampering as well as match fixing and so on. and yet he chose to be involved. 

i will never support australian cricket again while smith is captain. he should also get a suspension from playing and then only allowed to return as a player, not captain. 

[ayepatz]

Life in the professional era, I’m afraid. Screw decency, if you think you can wangle an advantage.

Ball tampering in cricket.

Drugs in cycling.

Pretty much everything involving forward play, and the breakdown, in rugby.

And, top of the list, football, the sport where some of the fittest athletes on the planet seem incapable of doing something the rest of us take for granted - standing up without falling over.

The days of decency, respect, sportsmanship, and gentlemanly behaviour are long gone, sad to say.

It depresses me to think what the greats of yesteryear would make of it all.

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

It depresses me to think what the greats of yesteryear would make of it all.

yes, can anyone imagine a benaud or a border or sobers or bradman or may or cowdrey or dexter or graveney (possibly jardine but then even that may be harsh) doing this? such a sad day. 

[ayepatz]

5 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

yes, can anyone imagine a benaud or a border or sobers or bradman or may or cowdrey or dexter or graveney (possibly jardine but then even that may be harsh) doing this? such a sad day. 

Not at all.

Thing is, sadly, cheating is here to stay. Despite all the hoohah, the governing bodies don’t really take it seriously. What was it Atherton got away with when he was caught a few years back? Couple of grand fine? I mean really, who carries dirt in their pocket to “dry their fingers”? Still, that was good enough for the ECB. Minor fine, rap on knuckles. Ridiculous. 

 

[Duxnutz]

Wtf is going on? Leave the country for 6 months and suddenly we’ve become a nation of sporting cheats? I’d like everyone who criticises Chinese swimming to eat some humble pie.

[Fuzz]

What a grub! I never liked Smith, and this just makes my feelings about him justified. Frankly, whoever was involved in this should be given the boot and never allowed to play for Australia again. What kind of example are they setting for young Australians, if CA let them off with a slap on the wrist?

[westg]

Well said...I agree..I always looked at him being mentally weak...against d grade competition....a walk over...Now look at them

His response in that press conference was an even bigger digrace...he is not the right person for that job as he clearly stated...

If he has any diginity....stand down....a great shame....get off your pedistal boy.

Beyond belief....

 

[westg]

What be even more humiliating....they appoint Warner

[westg]

Bancroft....could have said no....saying not in his character...clearly it is .... 

I cannot believe the shit coming out of peoples mouths....

 Okay it was a mistake....I am sorry can we please move on.....basically translated....I would like you to eat my shit and call it caviar

[99call]

4 hours ago, westg said:

Bancroft....could have said no....saying not in his character...clearly it is .... 

I cannot believe the shit coming out of peoples mouths....

It's all in context. As fans we like to think the hero's of the last 100yrs were as clean as a whistle.  What I'm saying is. If you reach the very highest echelon of your sport, and your captain foists the idea of cheating on you. It's one thing if he says this is the first time we've ever done anything like this, but if he (i'm not genuinely casting any aspersions) suggests "ah stuff like this goes on all the time, all you hero's of yesteryear got up to this kind of stuff.    All of a sudden the press-ganging becomes a hell of a lot more psychologically powerful.

It's a bit like Serpico.  On one hand your thinking "shit, if I do this, I may destroy my career" on the other your thinking "shit, if I don't do this, these guys now know, I know there cheats!!!. If I'm not now complicit, am I going to get deselected asap". Think about it. If deselected, then two weeks later Bancroft come out saying, "I was de-selected, because I wouldn't cheat for the team" He has zero proof, and it would be super easy for the senior leadership group to say "I think this is just sour grapes" end of.

Yes, I, and everybody on here would like to think we have teak tough moral codes, but until your in that room, and someone presents you with a decision, that could end your career, which ever option you decide, it's bloody tough. 

[99call]

9 hours ago, ayepatz said:

And, top of the list, football, the sport where some of the fittest athletes on the planet seem incapable of doing something the rest of us take for granted - standing up without falling over.

The days of decency, respect, sportsmanship, and gentlemanly behaviour are long gone, sad to say.

It infuriates me then football fans lament the bullying of refs, and say "it would be brilliant, if there is something you could do" AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!!!!

SEND ------- THEM -------- OFF.    It would take one week of this to reform the game. But the real sadness is it's the Colosseum. Ever since ancient times the powers that be, have realised that the majority of 'fans' are odd creatures.

- If you present them with glory, they are content. 

- if you present them with tragedy, they are content

- if you give them even handed, well reffed, disciplined sport, they don't come. 

Much like whats been worked out with Gamblers. i.e. they are addicted to the natural endorphins released in the brain. Unfortunately those endorphins get released win or lose. So as much as someone who's lost, would like to admit it, they are still getting a buzz out of it, and for want of a better term, enjoying themselves. 

As much as I hate it, sport with a disgusting moral code is here to stay. The majority like it, and the majority pay the bills.

 

[JohnS]

I am gutted by all this. I am in agreement in that I don't condone cheating in sport, however, I am sick in the guts, so-to-speak, in regards to the punishment handed out to Steve Smith as a consequence. No. I don't mean he shouldn't stand down, but why is this guy below still captaining his country?

For the record, during the second test of the Australia-South Africa test series in 2016, Faf du Plessis was fined 100% of his match fee for ball tampering, given 3 demerit points and still appealed and lost. His teammates even held a press conference denying the charge, with Hashim Amla calling it ridiculous. What I don't find ridiculous is that this was the second time that he was found guilty, after scuffing the ball on the zip of his trousers in a test match against Pakistan in 2013. In 2014, Vernon Philander was fined 75% of his match fee and found guilty of tampering the ball against Sri Lanka.

Last week, during the second test, Kagiso Rabada was charged for physical contact against Steve Smith after claiming his dismissal. The charge carries 3 demerit points. What I find incredulous about all this is the fact that Rabada has had 5, yes 5, breaches of the code of conduct in the last 14 months. By all means he should have been suspended for 2 tests. Then, suddenly, the South African Cricket Board appeals, brings in a QC from New Zealand, and he gets off on a lesser charge, one that doesn't mention physical contact. Judge for yourself...

For those of you who saw this, it was so plainly a breach of the rules of the game, that in getting off, it shows how pathetic and toothless the ICC is. Make no mistake, Smith and Bancroft should get punished, and they will, but it is Cricket Australia that has stood down Smith and Warner from their captaincy roles. In direct contrast, the South African Cricket board maintains an indignant attitude to all their players that are charged with bringing the game into disrepute, which I find reprehensible.

In this series, you must understand that both sides have been guilty and letting themselves down with their behaviour. And authorities have been slow and/or unwilling to react at times. I think David Warner has been a serial pest for opposition teams for a long time, perhaps he needs a re-think about any captaincy aspirations.

However, you'd think Steve Smith is beyond this. Maybe he was aggrieved by the Rabada reprieve and thought to himself that the rules of Test cricket don't seem to apply to anyone, which in a way, he is correct judging by how misdemeanors have been seemingly under-punished and even not punished in the past. Remember, Cricket Australia has taken the lead in removing David Warner and Steve Smith from their captaincy roles. I think Cameron Bancroft should be banned from playing the 4th test, I think Warner is involved in this and he should be missing the next test too. Everyone involved should get banned from playing a match or two, then this will all change.

It won't happen because the ICC is a corrupt, toothless organisation which values revenue above all and this means players like Rabada play and learn nothing from their conduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

I am a passionate cricket supporter and I stand here disgusted with these events of the game.

 

[Trevor2118]

22 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

just read he believes he should keep the captaincy. i would suggest that this is delusional. the sad thing is that one suspects administrators will cave in and slap him on the wrist and all be forgiven. 

it appears that the slap has been given ..............I call B.S. on this....what a gutless response.

[El Presidente]

I can't believe people look at cricketers as role models. Actually any sportsman. 

Cricket of all sports. It has been a cesspool for decades. 

 

[Ken Gargett]

24 minutes ago, Trevor2118 said:

it appears that the slap has been given ..............I call B.S. on this....what a gutless response.

i read that as an interim step. CA still to decide. 

[Ken Gargett]

10 hours ago, JohnS said:

I am gutted by all this. I am in agreement in that I don't condone cheating in sport, however, I am sick in the guts, so-to-speak, in regards to the punishment handed out to Steve Smith as a consequence. No. I don't mean he shouldn't stand down, but why is this guy below still captaining his country?

For the record, during the second test of the Australia-South Africa test series in 2016, Faf du Plessis was fined 100% of his match fee for ball tampering, given 3 demerit points and still appealed and lost. His teammates even held a press conference denying the charge, with Hashim Amla calling it ridiculous. What I don't find ridiculous is that this was the second time that he was found guilty, after scuffing the ball on the zip of his trousers in a test match against Pakistan in 2013. In 2014, Vernon Philander was fined 75% of his match fee and found guilty of tampering the ball against Sri Lanka.

Last week, during the second test, Kagiso Rabada was charged for physical contact against Steve Smith after claiming his dismissal. The charge carries 3 demerit points. What I find incredulous about all this is the fact that Rabada has had 5, yes 5, breaches of the code of conduct in the last 14 months. By all means he should have been suspended for 2 tests. Then, suddenly, the South African Cricket Board appeals, brings in a QC from New Zealand, and he gets off on a lesser charge, one that doesn't mention physical contact. Judge for yourself...

For those of you who saw this, it was so plainly a breach of the rules of the game, that in getting off, it shows how pathetic and toothless the ICC is. Make no mistake, Smith and Bancroft should get punished, and they will, but it is Cricket Australia that has stood down Smith and Warner from their captaincy roles. In direct contrast, the South African Cricket board maintains an indignant attitude to all their players that are charged with bringing the game into disrepute, which I find reprehensible.

In this series, you must understand that both sides have been guilty and letting themselves down with their behaviour. And authorities have been slow and/or unwilling to react at times. I think David Warner has been a serial pest for opposition teams for a long time, perhaps he needs a re-think about any captaincy aspirations.

However, you'd think Steve Smith is beyond this. Maybe he was aggrieved by the Rabada reprieve and thought to himself that the rules of Test cricket don't seem to apply to anyone, which in a way, he is correct judging by how misdemeanors have been seemingly under-punished and even not punished in the past. Remember, Cricket Australia has taken the lead in removing David Warner and Steve Smith from their captaincy roles. I think Cameron Bancroft should be banned from playing the 4th test, I think Warner is involved in this and he should be missing the next test too. Everyone involved should get banned from playing a match or two, then this will all change.

It won't happen because the ICC is a corrupt, toothless organisation which values revenue above all and this means players like Rabada play and learn nothing from their conduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

I am a passionate cricket supporter and I stand here disgusted with these events of the game.

 

john, i have read a number of idiots on various cricket sites claiming that bancroft and smith should only receive the same punishment as faf and others. as determined by the spineless ICC. and i can sort of understand that but my view is that we are better than this and that the punishment imposed should reflect this. if other countries want to whitewash their players and don't care about the long term ramifications, up to them. i will be so utterly disgusted if we do the same. 

 

 

[Andy04]

CA needs to take the lead and set the precedent for handling these situations. That only leaves 2 options:

 

1) Lifetime ban for anybody directly involved with the tampering  

2) Lifetime ban for anybody directly involved, and a 12 month suspension for all CA cricket for the remainder of the team. 

 

Harsh? Yes.

But these men men were selected to represent Australia, and their actions clearly don’t represent the majority of Australians values in sport.