ATGroom

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  1. I don't think we need to get into the whole palaver again @NSXCIGAR, but suffice to say, I continue to disagree with your position on this and reject most of the logic behind it. Almost all of the cigars in this list appear in other documents I've seen; factory records, tax lists, other catalogues etc. Some pre-Rev, some post-Rev. The main question I would have of the OP if someone has a Reddit account want wants to ask, is "how do they get to the 1969 date?" Doesn't seem to be dated anywhere in the pics. If it's possible to get a scan I would be very pleased to
  2. Up until 1970s foil wrapped cigars had a layer of tissue, then a layer of pure metal foil on the outside. Ie, when you remove the foil, you then have a tissue wrapped cigar, and you have to remove the tissue before you can smoke it. As opposed to what we have today which is aluminised paper and comes off all at once. So I'd say what has happened is the metal is decaying and the paper is exposed. Have never seen anything like that happen before. On that basis the paper actually looks very clean and fresh, would expect it to be stained with the oils from the cigar or by whatever proces
  3. My box was still sealed when I received it implying no inspection at distributor or vendor. I hassled my vendor about it and he said that they had inspected "some" and they all were fine, but also that other customers had been complaining too. So sounds like less than 100% but more than one box. Please post with yea or nay and what your box number is when you get em.🙏
  4. Yes, definitely possible that they're not actually for sale and are just listed for 'full line seems more legit' purposes. Upon closer inspection, all of the cheapies except the Quintero Panetelas, Vegueros Entretiempos and Tapados are currently listed as "out of stock." As are the Noellas. I guess I would think Noellas aren't worth faking just because the technical complexity of doing so, ie, need to source the jars, vs the comparatively small worldwide market for them. Am kinda tempted to buy a box of the Panetelas just to see what I get... just don't want to have to pay the Austra
  5. Not actually seen the boxes, but a well known ring of Chinese fakes websites list JLP Brevas, Cazadores, and Conservas, along with Quintero Brevas, Favoritos, Londres Extra. Panetelas, and Petit Quinteros. They also list Cohiba Mini White, Montecristo Club, Montecristo Joyitas, Montecristo No.5, PSD6, Fonseca Delicias, and HUHC. Plus some oddball stuff like Upmann Noellas that I wouldn't have thought was worth faking. I don't think there's any such thing as "too cheap to fake" or "too small to fake" anymore.
  6. This box arrived today, number 3013/6000. Anybody else got these? What kind of bands did you get?
  7. Thinking about this thread I went and had a look at a couple of the sites of a well known ring of Chinese made fake retailers to see if they had any NC offering. They don't, but I notice that they are now selling Quintero, JLP, and Vegueros. One of the tests of whether a site was fake or not has always been whether they carried the cheap stuff. Most didn't, presumably because the effort required to make a $500 box of Cohiba is only marginally greater than the effort for a $50 box of JLP. Appears that they now feel it's an effort worth making. I guess fakers have offcuts that need to
  8. I don't know anything really about NCs - for those who know more, do NCs go to any effort with anti-counterfeiting measures? I.e., Cubans have microprinted holograms on seals and some bands, UV fluorescent ink on seals and some bands, unique serial numbers on each box linked back to a central database that consumers can check. Do NCs do any of this stuff? Or any other measures?
  9. I don't have any information about it, but for the "low quality fakes" ie, home rolls in Cuba, glass tops sold on the beach in the Bahamas, rebanded Mexican factory cigars sold to tourists in Tijuana etc, sold by a Cuban guy in Miami, these basically rely on people who don't know anything about cigars buying a story about how my cousin works in the factory in Havana. They trade on the fact that Cubans are something special and illicit. I don't think NC fakes would be produced at this level. However, there are also the 'high quality' fakes that are produced in professional factories in Chi
  10. Got a pic of the box and flyer? Just want to confirm size is Edmundo, 8000 boxes of 10, type of packaging, bands etc. Cheers.
  11. Just anecdotally, Cuaba might be an exception, in that while it is a small brand, it also is a difficult brand to roll because they're all double figurado. So maybe La Corona is loath to outsource much of that production, or it might be difficult to find enough level 9 rollers in the smaller factories. Upmann, it kind of makes sense that they would keep the Connie to themselves as that is the line they have been trying to develop in recent years. And the factory also handles Monte, so Upmann is probably considered the 2nd tier brand for them. Agree, probably only really credible sour
  12. I think this fits more or less with what the Cubans would consider the "mother factory." The blenders from the mother factory choose the tobacco. Production can be done in house, or the mother factory can outsource it depending on their capacity. The QC people at the mother factory have some level of responsibility over making sure the stuff that comes back from outsource is up to snuff. If prototypes needed to be produced for a new cigar or something like that then it would all be done at the mother factory. And their staff probably have some input into product development
  13. It is the case for all marcas. The master blenders from the mother factory choose all the tobacco for the brand no matter where it is rolled. A couple of years ago I tried to put together a definitive list of brands and their mother factories - it proved to be easier said than done. Sources give different factories for different brands, and there are some minor brands that I couldn't find any info on. I'm not sure if these brands are actually "homeless" or if they are not a big enough deal that it has ever made it to print. But, as I understand the system, there would be a master ble
  14. Tobacco is all issued by the mother factory of the marca, ie, if La Corona is going to roll a batch of Siglo II, then the Master Blender at El Laguito will choose the tobacco for them and send it over. So Cohiba should have the triple ferment regardless of where it is rolled.
  15. I'm basing it on an interview with 'Cueto' (master torcedor) where he says that in Cuba they never use ligero in 38 or lower. Practically I guess it's just that the thin cigar with less filler means ligero would be too overpowering and the cigar wouldn't burn right. In theory Cohiba is more expensive due to the highest quality of tobacco being used, particularly the top grade wrappers which are the most expensive leaf. Plus I guess the fillers get the third fermentation which has a cost associated with it. Never heard any HSA person say that medio tiempo is used in any cigar outside of th

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