The Wine Fridge Humidor


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Thanks Piggy!

I've had a bit of a read of various threads and decided that, realistically, I'm looking at a thermoelectric wine fridge with a heap of beads.

My only worry is condensation, so I will look more into ways to combat that. As I don't have many boxes yet, I was planning on storing some wine in the bottom half of the fridge. Is this going to increase problems with condensation?

Sorry to be asking stupid questions, but I have NFI!

Pleasure to be of service. You know what they say about stupid questions!!! - :unsure:

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Thanks Piggy!

I've had a bit of a read of various threads and decided that, realistically, I'm looking at a thermoelectric wine fridge with a heap of beads.

My only worry is condensation, so I will look more into ways to combat that. As I don't have many boxes yet, I was planning on storing some wine in the bottom half of the fridge. Is this going to increase problems with condensation?

Sorry to be asking stupid questions, but I have NFI!

Just a quick note on storing wine with your cigars. I know some people say otherwise, and of course it is a matter of opinion, but I abscribe to the belief that it may not be wise. Many of use have had wine bottles that leaked...that could be detrimental to your cigars. While the wine may be stored at the bottom of the fridge...the aroma will permeate the whole fridge. If you do decide to store the two together, be sure to regularly check your bottles for seepage.

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Just a quick note on storing wine with your cigars. I know some people say otherwise, and of course it is a matter of opinion, but I abscribe to the belief that it may not be wise. Many of use have had wine bottles that leaked...that could be detrimental to your cigars. While the wine may be stored at the bottom of the fridge...the aroma will permeate the whole fridge. If you do decide to store the two together, be sure to regularly check your bottles for seepage.

Careful! Last time I shared that advice I was told that wine never leaks from the bottles of 'serious' collectors. I have deduced then, that only if you are not 'serious' will your wine leak. You must therefore be 'serious' if you are going to store your wine and cigars together!!! -LOL Mr. Chen, you have not asked if the man is serious or not!!! -LOL

Note: the aforementioned is the paraphrased republication of the thoughts of another and not of the distinguished Mr. PigFish. Mr. PigFish believes the storing of wine in a prostrate position in a small confinement with your cigars, as Mr. Chen has noted, may be a mistake!

:party: - :party:

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Hahaha...Piggy...I had forgotten about that post. Thanks for reminding me. I had a good laugh with that one...

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Hi All

On the advice of a Mr Piggy Esquire,

I managed to borrow the Data Logger from the Printing Company i work for,over a three day period i left it in my 28 Bottle Vintec cooler,which is an active system ,I must admit that the device was moved abit during the test ,to see if any variations are taken place, at this stage the swings in RH are what I suspected ,I have 2 x16 oz bags of beads and two more on the way ,seen as due to popular opinion you cannot have to many,the Cigars at this stage are OK and are smoking alright alot better than they were at room temp in the Siglo 200 count Humidor (which is now in fridge )@room temp here in perth they were subject to wild fluctuations during the year,somwhere along the lines of up 35.c in summer to 15.c or lower during winter,Rh levels were also up and down so i figured they are better in the fridge ,as at this moment Modification is not on the cards (Mrs) :(

I have heard of other members here in OZ that there fridges are OK without major Modifications.

No sign of condensation at all which i would interpret as a good thing,but i think long term testing would also be a good idea.

I have posted the results for all to peruse ,this data logger was worth about 250 Oz Dollars so i would like to thing it was in calibration ,though not entirley sure was a couple of points or a bit more over my digital Hyrgo's,which are in a coupkle of degrees within each-other .I would have to say work in progress still as is everything :P ( Maybe Rob A is right touch and feel :D )

Cheers OZ ;)

Temperature_Humidity_Logger_Steve.pdf

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Hi All

On the advice of a Mr Piggy Esquire,

I managed to borrow the Data Logger from the Printing Company i work for,over a three day period i left it in my 28 Bottle Vintec cooler,which is an active system ,I must admit that the device was moved abit during the test ,to see if any variations are taken place, at this stage the swings in RH are what I suspected ,I have 2 x16 oz bags of beads and two more on the way ,seen as due to popular opinion you cannot have to many,the Cigars at this stage are OK and are smoking alright alot better than they were at room temp in the Siglo 200 count Humidor (which is now in fridge )@room temp here in perth they were subject to wild fluctuations during the year,somwhere along the lines of up 35.c in summer to 15.c or lower during winter,Rh levels were also up and down so i figured they are better in the fridge ,as at this moment Modification is not on the cards (Mrs) :(

I have heard of other members here in OZ that there fridges are OK without major Modifications.

No sign of condensation at all which i would interpret as a good thing,but i think long term testing would also be a good idea.

I have posted the results for all to peruse ,this data logger was worth about 250 Oz Dollars so i would like to thing it was in calibration ,though not entirley sure was a couple of points or a bit more over my digital Hyrgo's,which are in a coupkle of degrees within each-other .I would have to say work in progress still as is everything ;) ( Maybe Rob A is right touch and feel :blink: )

Cheers OZ :)

Temperature_Humidity_Logger_Steve.pdf

Interesting stuff Ozzy! What period of time does this cover? What is the sample rate of the logger?

When attempting to compare settings and improvements of my systems I use a sample rate of 1 in 10 seconds. Humidity changes very rapidly with the presence of a dehumidifier (a cold object) in the environment. I would like to see a 1 day test in a high temperature environment with fast logging to see how your system is functioning.

Good work! -Ray

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Interesting stuff Ozzy! What period of time does this cover? What is the sample rate of the logger?

When attempting to compare settings and improvements of my systems I use a sample rate of 1 in 10 seconds. Humidity changes very rapidly with the presence of a dehumidifier (a cold object) in the environment. I would like to see a 1 day test in a high temperature environment with fast logging to see how your system is functioning.

Good work! -Ray

Hi Ray

Thanks for the advice f.y.i the fridge is set @18.c the highest (warmest )it will go,i will try and borrow the data logger again for a more in depth analysis , I am unsure about the sampling rate it was set at ,as i did not set it up ,but your greater sampling rate makes sense ,i did move the data logger around a bit during the test which was 3 day period, and i also placed it in my 200 count Siglo which is also in the fridge and would be the flat (stable) part of the graph.

Inside the Humidor on my digital hygro's seems to be stable @around 68-70%,

No condensation what so ever on the inside of fridge (which is a relief ).

I would like to get a clear picture of what's actually happening as it starts to get fuller the more you have to loose and i am sure you know here i am coming from.

Also i have 2 pounds of 65% beads in at the moment and thinking of upping the number to 4 total as you cannot have enough beads according to popular opinion ,soon as i get the next test done i will post results to new parameters .

Cheers Ray

Steve

(Oz) :rolleyes:

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i left it in my 28 Bottle Vintec cooler,which is an active system

Looking at picking one of these up, as I have store credit at a joint that sells them. Glad to hear it's working for you. Was a bit concerned when I realised it isn't a thermoelectric system...

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Looking at picking one of these up, as I have store credit at a joint that sells them. Glad to hear it's working for you. Was a bit concerned when I realised it isn't a thermoelectric system...

Hi wil

They are are nice bit of kit as they say,not cheap but they seem to do a good job ,project still in its infancy may be mods on the horizon not sure as yet more tests should give a clearer picture ,I am trying to keep as simple and as cheap as possible (more money to stock it then B) ) but if modification is required then it will have to be done ,but first it will have to have good data to show trends and stability or lack off it :P

but so far it seems reasonable as i write this at 11:40 pm local it is reading a steady 68%@18.c

once i get the next data logging results will post

cheers Oz :cigar:

P.S this it it,and my one has a humidor and empty boxes in it

post-5203-1266335200.jpg

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Hi wil

They are are nice bit of kit as they say,not cheap but they seem to do a good job ,project still in its infancy may be mods on the horizon not sure as yet more tests should give a clearer picture ,I am trying to keep as simple and as cheap as possible (more money to stock it then :P ) but if modification is required then it will have to be done ,but first it will have to have good data to show trends and stability or lack off it :(

but so far it seems reasonable as i write this at 11:40 pm local it is reading a steady 68%@18.c

once i get the next data logging results will post

cheers Oz <_<

P.S this it it,and my one has a humidor and empty boxes in it

post-5203-1266335200.jpg

Thanks Ozzy. Will let you know how I go with it. Keen to hear any modifications you make too.

Cheers

Wil.

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Hi All

Here is the latest Data Logger report ,was only about 9 hours worth ,data sample rate [email protected] every ten seconds ,have some more sessions to do later next week,seems to show in a bit more detail what is going on (Rh drops quick but seems to recover fairly quick as well)

Next test will be from inside the boxes to see what is happening in there hopefully should be a bit more insulated from the fluctuations

Cheers OZ :)

DATA_18.2.2010.pdf

Temp_18.2.pdf

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Ozzy,

What is the ambient temp in the room/area that the humidor resides? And... what do you have against Fahrenheit? -LOL

What is the base line temp you are trying to maintain and then what statistically, what average are you getting?

You can see why, in these tests, that it is preferred to keep cigars in boxes in temperature controlled humidors. If you put your data logger in a box you will see much less radical results.

Here is a test I have recently done. The ambient ranged from the 60's in my shop to about 85 in the day. You will notice a area where the dry function was on and off attempting to keep the box from over humidifying.

All fun stuff!

post-79-1266692921.jpg

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Piggy

Hi, the ambient is a unknown factor here, i would guess lately mid sixties to mid eighties Fahrenheit :cigar:

Seriously i have nothing against Fahrenheit its just i guess i grew up a Metric boy ,and not to good at that either ;)

It can vary somewhat ,something else to measure also i guess

This process is becoming quiet fascinating ,and i can see the Anal side of me coming out :lol::(

To me the temp seems pretty constant ,and even though the humidity does spike down when the fridge kicks in it recovers fairly quick as well (i might be wrong)

I would love to see a bit more of a gentler variation, but inside boxes it would average 68% i think.

I have two more tests planned, before my boss gets pissed off :lol: no he's cool good friend . :whistle: need own data logger ;)

At the moment it seems a better solution than just my 200 count, out in the houses elements,which varies considerably ,and in winter here a might be able to turn it off and get the results i need ,wait for winter for that one .

The fridge/humidor is located more or less located in the centre of the house which is good, to keep radiant heat mainly in the afternoon, through walls ,away from unit.

Thanks again for all your input on this thread,will keep posted.

Cheers Oz (Steve) :lol:

P.S Until results are more conclusive i think it would be prudent to zip lock bag the boxes

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all

Here is the latest results from fridgeadoor test ...

First graph is pretty much the same as others ,still not sure if it is really good or bad :2thumbs:

The second graph is from inside my siglo 200 count (in the fridge )

I have a suspicion that the data logger is a bit on the lower end of the RH spectrum

all full Cabs inside have been zip lock bagged (only cos I am paranoid :cigar: )

hygrometers in bags read 68 to 70 so i am reasonably pleased and the ones i have had smoked alright ,time will tell, i mean you will always get bad ones ,its just the way it is.

FIGURE ONE INSIDE THE FRIDGE

Temperature_Humidity_Logger_Monitor.pdf

FIGURE TWO INSIDE THE SIGLO

Steve.pdf

Also i have had no condensation issues what so ever, 3 lbs of 65 % beads in there also,just have to watch if power goes out unit rests @12 degrees cel or 54 Fahrenheit (not good)

Any feed back most welcome ,waiting for weather to cool down then will do test with unit off

Cheers all

OZ :2thumbs:

(Steve)

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  • 1 month later...

Probably a dumb question, but is it necessary to have an additional fan helping to blow humidity throughout the wine fridge? Im upgrading from a 12 count to 28 count and have not had problems with humidity in the 12, but I fear problems with a larger space to humidify.

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Probably a dumb question, but is it necessary to have an additional fan helping to blow humidity throughout the wine fridge? Im upgrading from a 12 count to 28 count and have not had problems with humidity in the 12, but I fear problems with a larger space to humidify.

I have never used a fan for this purpose, though I have read many do.

In my experience, as long as you have gaps between boxes and levels you should be fine. I have checked both top to bottom and back to front and the results are never more than 1% different.

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Actually, as the original thread starter, I can say that I went and bought a 28ct wine fridge a month or so ago. Got 2 pounds of beads, sprayed them with water, put the two stocking in the fridge and voila - 65% consistently. Never more never less. Though the top shelf is slightly lower, as I put the beads on the lower ones.

But I still haven't switched it on. I figure the temp in my flat is always around 17-23 C, so why bother.

Fan also is obviously never switched on.

So thanks everyone who contributed. It was a big help

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Probably a dumb question, but is it necessary to have an additional fan helping to blow humidity throughout the wine fridge? Im upgrading from a 12 count to 28 count and have not had problems with humidity in the 12, but I fear problems with a larger space to humidify.

Every part of one of my humidors has a purpose. The purpose in all cases is performance enhancement. You can only measure performance enhancements with the proper equipment, a data logger. For those of you not wanting to push the limits of your sanity as well as the performance aspects of your humidors... don't bother. Your cigars will likely never know better and neither will you. The data logger on the other hand does not lie. Once you have committed to data logging you are subject to the knowledge of the actual environment that your cigars experience. It is up to you then to choose to work on the problem or let it go. This reminds me a bit about when I learned to fly multiengine aircraft. With a single engine if it quits you are committed unless you can restart. With a small multiengine craft you have choices to make, those choices depend on factors like your attitude, altitude and air speed. There are times, low and slow, when it makes more sense to pull the good engine and make the best of it. You could on the other hand choose to kill yourself by attempting to power your plane with one engine below minimums. The parable is in choosing to attempt to solve a problem is not always a valid solution. You must know something about what your are trying to solve... and how to solve it. You may just make your problems worse!

The decision to explore your humidor and tweak its performance is up to you and your creativeness and budget. Without a data logger you are pissing in a fan! Actively cooled humidors put your cigars through cycles... no matter how many beads you have! Everything added to my humidors acts to reduce the cycles or the cycling effects and I have proven that they work with my own experiments. You can better your humidor performance with a creative mind, the time, the money and the right instruments. You can also frustrate yourself and ruin your cigars and waste your time.

To answer your question Sam a fan is the simplest solution to lowering the cycling effects if used correctly. They do work. On the flip side my friend, if you keep your cigars in boxes at all times and if you like what you get when you pull out a cigar to smoke. Don't worry about it! -Ray

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Every part of one of my humidors has a purpose. The purpose in all cases is performance enhancement. You can only measure performance enhancements with the proper equipment, a data logger. For those of you not wanting to push the limits of your sanity as well as the performance aspects of your humidors... don't bother. Your cigars will likely never know better and neither will you. The data logger on the other hand does not lie. Once you have committed to data logging you are subject to the knowledge of the actual environment that your cigars experience. It is up to you then to choose to work on the problem or let it go. This reminds me a bit about when I learned to fly multiengine aircraft. With a single engine if it quits you are committed unless you can restart. With a small multiengine craft you have choices to make, those choices depend on factors like your attitude, altitude and air speed. There are times, low and slow, when it makes more sense to pull the good engine and make the best of it. You could on the other hand choose to kill yourself by attempting to power your plane with one engine below minimums. The parable is in choosing to attempt to solve a problem is not always a valid solution. You must know something about what your are trying to solve... and how to solve it. You may just make your problems worse!

The decision to explore your humidor and tweak its performance is up to you and your creativeness and budget. Without a data logger you are pissing in a fan! Actively cooled humidors put your cigars through cycles... no matter how many beads you have! Everything added to my humidors acts to reduce the cycles or the cycling effects and I have proven that they work with my own experiments. You can better your humidor performance with a creative mind, the time, the money and the right instruments. You can also frustrate yourself and ruin your cigars and waste your time.

To answer your question Sam a fan is the simplest solution to lowering the cycling effects if used correctly. They do work. On the flip side my friend, if you keep your cigars in boxes at all times and if you like what you get when you pull out a cigar to smoke. Don't worry about it! -Ray

Thank ya, Sir. Answers my question. I think I will go fan-less :2thumbs:. You have good wisdom!!!

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I am currently consolidating my habanos from 3 humidors into my thermoelectric 28 bottle wine fridge. Forgive me if this has been asked and answered in this thread (difficult for me to siphon through all the entries). But, I'm trying to find the right time to transfer my cigars into the empty cabs/boxes that are in the wine fridge. The ambient air within the wine fridge currently is at an rh of 65% with one pound of 65% rh beads. However, inside the empty cabs/boxes (16 in all), the rh is all over the place ranging from 58-63 rh depending on where the box is located in the "tetris" pile. I.e. internal rh of the cabs/boxes on the top of the pile but in the bottom half of the wine fridge reads a higher rh, than a cab/box in the middle of the stacked pile in the upper half of the wine fridge, and so on. (hope I didn't lose anyone yet)

Obviously, when naked in a desktop humidor, it is understood that the rh inside the desktop humidor is what the cigars are resting in. But, given the differences in rh from within the cabs/boxes vs. outside of them, my confidence that I am properly storing my cigars is waning.

I do not run a fan as of yet. So, on to the million dollar question(s): If I do run a fan, will the internal rh of the cabs/boxes equilibrate (become equal) with the rh outside of the boxes (inside the wine fridge) over time? Or will they never be the same rh (inside the cabs/boxes vs. outside of the cabs/boxes) regardless of the use of fans.

Over-thinking perhaps, but a lot at stake when I think of the damage I can cause the cigars because of lack of knowledge.

Thanks in advance to all.

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As you know I am a fan advocate. Fans work in your humidor just like in your home... they move air and as a result mix air to an equilibrium. You want faster equilibrium, use a fan!

Leafy there are a few axioms (as I see it) that you need to know about humidors. You also must be able to separate fact from fiction, the pragmatic from the theoretical. Now this may seem condescending but it is not designed to be, so please don't take my candor as offensive. How do you really know what RH your cigars are unless they have substantial time to acclimate in a constant environment? Are you using certified instruments to take your readings; probably not? Then how would you truly correlate RH to smoking; you can't? Would you know the difference in a random cigar at an actual 58 RH verses 63 RH? Given the difference in the cigars themselves could you actually correctly interpret the 5 RH difference? Now again... this is not an attack on your smoking manhood or your abilities it is my experience that most smokers like what they like but they can't truely correlate a smoking experience to an actual amount to water in their cigars. The key word is "actual." I know I can't.

I think you are moving into the theoretical humidor dead zone. You have to understand that your humidor is not perfect and will likely never be perfect. That is axiom number 1. Number 2 is the fuller the humidor the more stable it will be. PUT YOUR CIGARS IN THERE! Axiom number 3. Sealed humidors suffer worse from high humidity problems than low humidity problems and even a true 58 RH (in my opinion) will not hurt your cigars. All these cigars should equalize over time. Since you are not using (I am assuming here) certified instruments you should be lesser concerned with the actual (real) RH numbers and more concerned with tastes based on the instruments that "you" are using. How does one of those 58 RH cigars smoke? Okay? Then the "actual" RH does not matter. Without a certified instrument you may never know. But if your humidor produces nice smoking cigars at 58 RH as your instruments portray it, that is all that you "pragmatically" need to know. I picked the 58 RH number just because you said it first! I am not hung up on 58 RH!

Since you are using beads and not an active system it would be best to keep all your cigars in boxes. Singles should be kept in an old box. You should try to keep your humidor in a cool place. In this way your cooler will run the least and the cycles will be minimized. If your system runs constantly... your humidor will dry out as all the vaporized mosture becomes ice on your cooling plate and your beads will never be able to catch up to it. The fact is... if your cooler continues to run it will simply dry out your beads and everything else in your humidor. This is know in science as diffusion. The natural transfer of high concentrations to low concentrations in order to find equilibrium.

Smoking is the key. If your measurements are anywhere near the actual you should be just fine. In my opinion the dry side makes for a better smoking experience.

Best of luck in your project amigo and if I can help you in any other way, you know where to find me. -Piggy

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