Cubans & Non Cubans

[darinjanssen]

I stopped smoking NC cigar once I discovered the depth and complexity of the CC. I no longer smoke NC cigars, I think they are crap. Now since I have not pursued NC cigars in a decade there may me notable changes and good cigars. I am simply not the guy willing to look for them. I view them the same as EL's.

Many people read my opinionated positions and think I am not willing to experiment and continue to learn. A case can be made for that position. I am a guy who likes what he likes and rather than work on disproving what I have learned empirically, what has formed my opinions in the first place, I would rather sharpen my focus on what I know I do like. My focus is on smoking an excellent cigar every time I light one up. Paying for a poor cigar experience is not logical to me. I view an average cigar and a poor experience, rather than just as a new experience. I expect a lot from the cigars I have chosen. I would rather own 10 boxes of the same cigar, than a 10 box mix of other cigars. I am very focused on what I like.

If you are going to compare every cigar you smoke to a CC, then why bother? -Piggy

Hey Piggy,

I'm relatively new to the site....what's an EL...and why won't you smoke one?

[PigFish]

Hey Piggy,

I'm relatively new to the site....what's an EL...and why won't you smoke one?

Hey mate... you probably won't make friends here if you get me on another anti-EL tirade!!! (read that with humor)

An EL is an Edicion Limitada Cuban cigar. They are annual products, specialty products produced for a certain year, double banded and boxed for the occasion. If you want to know my opinion about them in depth just search out some of my many posts on the subject and you will get an eye full.

In a nutshell I think they are sucker cigars, they are overpriced for new untested offerings, they cost too much and they under perform. What I really hate the most about the EL mindset is that they (H SA et al) appears to put more attention for into these sub par products at the cost of established better performing cigars. This is all just my opinion.

While I am interested in helping, mentoring and being of service especially to new members I have a couple of caveats. I only have an opinion based on my experience. As a result of that experience, I can opine regarding those topics and those cigars. Furthermore it is by far a greater pleasure to me to guide those who are looking for a greater experience, and not in dissuading those from getting experience. While I would not suggest that you pay top dollar and fill your humidor with EL's I would suggest that you try them for yourself and judge for yourself. I think cigar mentors have merit but cigar gurus are charlatans and often conceal a lot of personal gain in their bias. This too is just an opinion and experience. I think I am right about a lot of things, but I cannot be right about the personal cigar choices of others. We each only taste and judge by our own mouths.

If you have a question of me, feel free to ask, but put the question to the whole board and ask for varied opinions before you blindly follow one, including mine. I am no guru! Better yet, seek advice, but don't blindly follow anyone in this endeavor. If our tastes are not the same you may very well be mislead out of cigars that you may have enjoyed as a result. That would be a disservice to you and not an intended consequence of my opinions.

Best of luck to you on your search, welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of the best cigars on earth, not excluding some of the most expensive lousy ones!!!! -Piggy (aka Ray)

[OZCUBAN]

There should have been a button ..Yes I have tried NC's but didn't much care for them

OZ

[PigFish]

These are a few EL cigars and an RE cigar.

This is a REAL cigar!!! -LOL

[android]

Ray...that is a fine looking ERDM Elegantes!

[PigFish]

Ray...that is a fine looking ERDM Elegantes!

... ya think? -LOL -R

[thechenman]

These are a few EL cigars and an RE cigar.

This is a REAL cigar!!! -LOL

Piggy...comeon. Is that a PSD1 I see? Those have been most excellent.

[PigFish]

Piggy...comeon. Is that a PSD1 I see? Those have been most excellent.

To be honest my friend I don't know one from another! Some of the early ones, the ones I used to buy by the box when I was naive and hopeful about them I can remember. But Cuban specialty cigars are kinda' like looking through the pages of CA for me now; all dolled up but not welcome in my humidor.

I have been stale-dated my friend! I know about lonsdales and coronas, petit coronas and what are broadly defined as panatelas. My days of advancing knowledge in this field is on the decline. If one was to wonder what makes me so upset over Cuban cigar decline, it is two things. One is, who and what is to blame... Two, the fact that the years and thousand of dollars I have spent exploring Cuban cigars, with some zeal I might add, has largely been wasted due to the fact that those choices are no longer redily available to me. Along the same line is of course my participation in the CC community, a part of social life that I rather enjoy. It is trite and ostensibly boastful talking about the wonderful cigars that I smoke that ONE, as a reading participant, can no longer get...

It sucks! H SA et al has stolen the ability for the CC smoker to evolve. When you have been in the company of as many hardcore enthusiasts as I have, ones that have hoarded away many 100's of thousands of dollars worth of cigars collectively, not for profit, but for the shear lust of them, you begin to see a patern amongst smokers. That pattern, that evolution has been largely negated by deletions. The one size fits all model of H SA will cost them their business if they don't figure this out. Mark my words. -Piggy

[BENN]

You need one more optiom I have tryed NC and find 99% of them lacking balance, depth and think of them as a waste of money

[danclough]

I stopped smoking NC cigar once I discovered the depth and complexity of the CC. I no longer smoke NC cigars, I think they are crap. Now since I have not pursued NC cigars in a decade there may me notable changes and good cigars. I am simply not the guy willing to look for them. I view them the same as EL's.

Many people read my opinionated positions and think I am not willing to experiment and continue to learn. A case can be made for that position. I am a guy who likes what he likes and rather than work on disproving what I have learned empirically, what has formed my opinions in the first place, I would rather sharpen my focus on what I know I do like. My focus is on smoking an excellent cigar every time I light one up. Paying for a poor cigar experience is not logical to me. I view an average cigar and a poor experience, rather than just as a new experience. I expect a lot from the cigars I have chosen. I would rather own 10 boxes of the same cigar, than a 10 box mix of other cigars. I am very focused on what I like.

If you are going to compare every cigar you smoke to a CC, then why bother? -Piggy

I am exactly the opposite. I am willing to try everything but *** sex (not that there's anything wrong with that) because what's the downside? I don't like it? Big deal. The upside? I love it, and I've found one more thing in this short life that I can find enjoyment from. To each his own.

[Agricola]

You need one more optiom I have tryed NC and find 99% of them lacking balance, depth and think of them as a waste of money

I must agree with with this, the best NC I've ever tried was a Davidof and it was a decent cigar but it just didn't really measure up to most Cubans. It was better than a Cristales and probably better than a JLP (never tried one) but at the price why not just buy a hand rolled Cuban and get a better cigar?

[kiwirwe]

NCs are pretty expensive here in Aus. Can't see the point.

I concur.

[dan5974]

To be honest my friend I don't know one from another! Some of the early ones, the ones I used to buy by the box when I was naive and hopeful about them I can remember. But Cuban specialty cigars are kinda' like looking through the pages of CA for me now; all dolled up but not welcome in my humidor.

I have been stale-dated my friend! I know about lonsdales and coronas, petit coronas and what are broadly defined as panatelas. My days of advancing knowledge in this field is on the decline. If one was to wonder what makes me so upset over Cuban cigar decline, it is two things. One is, who and what is to blame... Two, the fact that the years and thousand of dollars I have spent exploring Cuban cigars, with some zeal I might add, has largely been wasted due to the fact that those choices are no longer redily available to me. Along the same line is of course my participation in the CC community, a part of social life that I rather enjoy. It is trite and ostensibly boastful talking about the wonderful cigars that I smoke that ONE, as a reading participant, can no longer get...

It sucks! H SA et al has stolen the ability for the CC smoker to evolve. When you have been in the company of as many hardcore enthusiasts as I have, ones that have hoarded away many 100's of thousands of dollars worth of cigars collectively, not for profit, but for the shear lust of them, you begin to see a patern amongst smokers. That pattern, that evolution has been largely negated by deletions. The one size fits all model of H SA will cost them their business if they don't figure this out. Mark my words. -Piggy

That is so true.Habanos has discontinued just about every thin gauge cigar.The way they're going,they will all be gone soon.I Have a preference for thin gauges(Although I do always say my favorite size is a corona gorda.Which by the trends in todays world are considered thin.And they also seem to be dicontinued too).

To answer the original question of this post,i definent prefer Cubans at a ratio of about 75-25.Their are good NC cigars,but they few and far between.I do like the NC variety though.They're also pricer for the better offerings in NC market.You can get a good box CC robustos for $150 to $200 US.Try to find a box of comparable NC for that price.To get the better NC cigars is usually upward of $300.

[mk05]

Although this is quite a generalized question to pan a consensus, i must say that this poll misses out a very important factor. Heritage.

Cuban cigar blenders have been working with their tobaccos for generations and as such know the soul of the leaf (if you will). Look at most of NC brands. Bunch of businessmen trying to make some cash in an undersegmented market. This led to a bunch nc brands that are honestly - terrible.

However, take a look at marcas whose families have been in the business for generations. Go try a Padron panatela maduro, an EPC short run, Arturo Fuente 858 maduro aged or anejo, a henry clay, a tatuaje cojonu. I guarantee that you will have a different experience if you've been previously soured. Why? They've known their tobacco for decades and have the skill of blending. And it's that knowledge that transforms a cigar to a great cigar.

[Colt45]

And it's that knowledge that transforms a cigar to a great cigar.

Certainly there have been people who got into the NC cigar trade simply to make a profit, though I'm not sure I'd say "most".

I also imagine the same might be said about Imperial tobacco and Cuban cigars.

But I think what has hurt some NC producers is their inability to control the process from start to finish - some don't have

their own farms or factories, or have a factory but still have to farm out some of their production. They must rely on others

to produce their product, and I imagine it wouldn't take much to have the rug pulled out from under their feet in such a scenario.

So a producer like Fuente grows their own tobacco on their own farms, produces their cigars in their own factories which I guess

allows for much more stability and consistency.

[thechenman]

Certainly there have been people who got into the NC cigar trade simply to make a profit, though I'm not sure I'd say "most".

I also imagine the same might be said about Imperial tobacco and Cuban cigars.

But I think what has hurt some NC producers is their inability to control the process from start to finish - some don't have

their own farms or factories, or have a factory but still have to farm out some of their production. They must rely on others

to produce their product, and I imagine it wouldn't take much to have the rug pulled out from under their feet in such a scenario.

So a producer like Fuente grows their own tobacco on their own farms, produces their cigars in their own factories which I guess

allows for much more stability and consistency.

Exatamundo...

[CaptainQuintero]

The main issues for me are:

1- NC are more expensive than Cuban in the UK

2- What I have tried are all power and stength at the expense of taste and enjoyment. Great if you want power and strength from your cigars but personally I love the other side of the spectrum.

[Bahnofstrasse]

Exclusively CC for me...

NC cannot attain the depth of flavor of a fine CC.

[tucomapache]

Puro Habano!!

[Guest]

I smoke both, new to cigars (smoking active around a year) but love them, what better way to relax to some single malt and chocolate with a nice cigar.

[nubchin]

Occasionally smoke NCs but never look for complexities from them but rather a flavor variation from Cubans, always prefer Puros and the only regions that made me stock up till now are Brazil and Panama, but will keep looking for good sticks from Colombia Venezuela Ecuador etc. Sticks made for the US market simply never worked in my case.

Its easy to point out a single Cuban that I disliked, but its just impossible to even count out the NCs that I disliked. But again, never judge without trying.

[Bcrowell]

Well, uh the first and third options are the same answer aren't they?? And to really confess...the NC's actually are smoked by me every now & then to help me appreciate my CC's more!

You look familiar. Hmmm? How many dogs carry guns?

I smoke 95% non-cubans because I just got here. I have only smoked 15 cubans. That ratio should be closer to 75/25 by the end of the year. I have seen that it takes a little age for the sticks to ripen. I guess I have a couple more years of non cubans before I can shake the habit for good. First three boxes from this wonderful site were purchased today.

[canadianbeaver]

I smoke both, but since I love Cuban cigars, the NC's better be amazing or after an inch or so they are going into the fireplace.

CB

[Hemsworth]

I am now 100% Cuban. I have a handful of non's kicking around that I will burn through when drunk but I am no longer purchasing them.

[Diamondog]

Ya i`ve pretty much thinned my stock out of NC`s, I still have boxes of Padrons, Opus and a few others that I find worthy but for the most part have stopped buying NC`s