Van55 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I know that moderating a forum is a thankless task, and I am not usually one to criticize moderators' decisions. That said, it seems to me that here at the Water Hole we have historically been free to discuss pretty much anything that comes to mind that is not specifically verboten. In bar rooms and living rooms conversations almost always veer from one subject to another quite naturally. Very rarely does someone tell people to stifle their thoughts because they are off the original topic. Locking a thread because the conversation turns from the availablity of a DVD documentary to the relative merits of the narrator/producer seems to me to be contrary to the spirit of the Water Hole and the forum generally. Also, it bespeaks a kind of overly authoritarian attitude that belittles the the huddled masses. I accordingly respectfully dissent and request that the thread in question be unlocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZCUBAN Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I whole heartedly agree Van x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie204 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puros Y Vino Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I agree.The thread IMO had not degenerated greatly to warrant it. It is not the first time that the narrator in question has taken some lumps and in equal amounts some praise for his activities. Should the topic get too racy or inappropriate I trust my fellow FOH's to keep things in order. Our voices, much like the very hobby we are here to share in, are already suppressed and marginalized as it is. This forum is jam packed with good, conscientious members. Nitwits have and will always be rooted out early by this membership. Please, reopen that thread. I know someone else can start a new one but no one wants to make a moderator play "whack a mole". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstarrs Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 After reading through it I didn't find anything offensive, just a conversation evolving in different directions. Isn't that the point of a discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cohiba007 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Agreed. Not sure why this was locked. Because Trevor decided that it was too far off topic? Who cares if it was not within the strict guidelines of original topic law. It was not offensive nor did it break any guidelines. Very confused as to why this was locked by Trevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I am sure Trev had a reason and will check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I have no doubt that Trevor had excellent motivation -- likely to avert the thread from degenerating. But that's sort of my point. FoH members are generally well restrained and left to their own devices are highly unlikely to post in such a way that the thread would devolve into name calling, defamation of character or any other form of embarassment to our host here. In my view, only in the unlikely event that a thread does so devolve should it be moderated and locked. The notion that we can't be expected to control ourselves in rational debate and conversation is demeaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puros Y Vino Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Moderators have a right to make a call. The rest of us have a right to respectfully question it. As long as there is civil discussion people can still "argue". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I am not referring to anyone in particular Ok I have had a look. What appears to have happened is that some people have got upset because Trev took down the James Sucklng piñata that you were playing with. "OOOOhhh the voice" "OOOOOhh the pomposity" Now I know James isn't to all tastes. Neither am I and I am pretty sure as my arse points to the ground, neither are you. You want to bag the vid...go ahead. You want to say you have never taken to JS...go ahead. "JS is not my style...go ahead" " I would rather pull teeth...go ahead" JS is a pompous arsehole etal? No..you crossed the line. Simple decency gents and if I have to explain it to you then it is a crying shame. I am always amused when th flag of "Freedom" is waved as a justification for expressions of hate and vitriol. There are a 100 ways to express ones displeasure about something. Use some class. Play the ball and not the man. If you want to give the man a gentle swipe then use some class when doing so. Simple decency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rob Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I agree with, Van. .... man, I never thougth I'd ever utter those words Love ya brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puros Y Vino Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I am not referring to anyone in particular Ok I have had a look. ............ I am always amused when th flag of "Freedom" is waved as a justification for expressions of hate and vitriol. There are a 100 ways to express ones displeasure about something. Use some class. Play the ball and not the man. If you want to give the man a gentle swipe then use some class when doing so. Simple decency. Wow. I missed all those quotes? Rob, first off, thanks for thorough review. I think everyone respects that you've got the final call. Given what was written against the overall tone of the thread there's an arguement on both sides of it IMO. I think what we all need to remember though is that despite having an array of "smiles" at your disposal what is written is so very different from what is spoken. Were this conversation conducted around a table with some drinks and cigars the spirit would not have been as "venomous" as what the written words convey. Everyone has an opinion on JS good or bad and it's a shame that things did need "moderation". But I do believe there was a lot of genuine interest in his DVD. I'd like to read a review myself. Everyone, may not like his style, but surely a media guy that enthusiastic about cigars is something we should all get behind and FWIW; CA is not the same without him. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Rob Ayala, you know I love you like a brother. And I expect you won't mind my telling you I think you are dead wrong on this one. Examining the posts on that thread, I find absolutly NO lack of decency. Here are the only truly negative quotes that I can find: "drone on in full pomposity" "can anyone re-dub this?" "phony accent cracks me up" "distated for and distrust of" "a character and can be quite annoying" That's it. Almost all the rest of it is praise of the project and, to some extent, the man. There's no vulgarity, no name-calling and surely no reference to anyone as an anal orifice. As I said, moderating is a thankless job. Over-moderating should be equally thankless. Locking that thread had nothing to do with a lack of decency or class in any of the posts, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puros Y Vino Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Rob Ayala, you know I love you like a brother. And I expect you won't mind my telling you I think you are dead wrong on this one. Examining the posts on that thread, I find absolutly NO lack of decency. Here are the only truly negative quotes that I can find: "drone on in full pomposity" "can anyone re-dub this?" "phony accent cracks me up" "distated for and distrust of" "a character and can be quite annoying" That's it. Almost all the rest of it is praise of the project and, to some extent, the man. There's no vulgarity, no name-calling and surely no reference to anyone as an anal orifice. As I said, moderating is a thankless job. Over-moderating should be equally thankless. Locking that thread had nothing to do with a lack of decency or class in any of the posts, in my opinion. I'm not 100% sure but some of that stuff Rob quoted could've been edited out by the moderator prior to the locking. Moderators on forums have a different view that the regular ID's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I'm not 100% sure but some of that stuff Rob quoted could've been edited out by the moderator prior to the locking. Moderators on forums have a different view that the regular ID's. Point well made. If there was stuff on the thread that stooped to that level and that was moderated out, I stand corrected. Regardless, I'll take this opportunity to thank all the moderators for what they do here. Because of the general tone on the forum I think their job might be easier than we suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutusthebuckeye Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Just start another thread about Suckling..... U could even start a poll of some sort.....lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Point well made. If there was stuff on the thread that stooped to that level and that was moderated out, I stand corrected. Regardless, I'll take this opportunity to thank all the moderators for what they do here. Because of the general tone on the forum I think their job might be easier than we suspect. Gents mods don't close anything down without a reason. Remember the guy the other day from the UK who did a vid review? Before long the poor bugger (the vid reviewer and not Hovy) was ripped a new arsehole. Andy comes to his defence and says something along the lines of "Hey...I know that guy, I have smoked with him, travelled with him...he is a great guy". The way the vid reviewer was attacked was poor form. The only regret I have is that I or the other mods had not pulled it earlier. From experience, Mods are better off closing early rather than deleting late. We average 2-3 a month of late. While hardly Kim Jong iL territory, it is up on previous and it is not something any of us want to do. I will unlock the thread and we will see how long before it deteriorates again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Not the point of this thread but you have me confused Rob mate. I did comment on that thread but I didn't post it (would not as it advertised an online vendor). Apologies mate. I will edit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstarrs Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Anyways I quite like James Suckling, he was pretty much the only guy from CA that I enjoyed. Sure he comes off a little pompous but who doesn't sometimes. I think he's pretty cool. And he knows what he's talking about IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick17 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 thanks Rob for seeing both sides, fair is fair. Things where said that should not have been and it all comes down to the few make the many look bad... I think it is time that the few are punished not the many and in unlocking the thread you have not punished the many and I hope that you and the rest of the moderation team deal with the few to make FOH a better place for the many. thats just my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushman Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I suspect running this forum and moderating it is a brutal task not many of us could keep up with much less produce such a wonderful singularly unique place to call home for a few moments, minutes or hours per day. Although I wasn't involved in the post, I can be as big or bigger arse then the next guy and appreciate that someone can put me in check as much as I like checking others that I feel are out of line. THANKS TO ROB, STAFF AND MODS FOR ALL YOU DO. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.630178,-87.069756 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Anyways I quite like James Suckling... And he knows what he's talking about IMO. Well, there's the crux of it, isn't it? In my opinion he does not. I could deal with the attitude of arrogance if it were justified by superior knowledge. (I admit that his knowledge of Cuba IS superior to mine for sure. I've never been there. But people whom I trust tell me that he doesn't always get it right -- far from it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstarrs Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I just meant that for me, he was the most entertaining guy from Cigar Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstarrs Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I just meant that for me, he was the most entertaining guy from Cigar Aficionado. Maybe I will rephrase "He seems to know what he is talking about." Everyone blows smoke up peoples asses from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CigarmanTim Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Sometimes you've already travelled a road and know where it's already going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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