Locking a Thread

[Wil]

Play the ball, not the man.

[CBL]

I've had the sense that the mods have gotten overly sensitive lately and have, on occasion, exchanged messages with mods to ask about decisions to edit or delete my posts. I feel we're guests on this forum and should adhere to the rules set here, so I don't want to rock the boat, however there is a certain "free spirited" air to this community has that has been set by Rob, Smithy, Ken and everyone else that keeps this forum going. The reason this forum has such a committed community is because we all love the laid-back Aussie mentality that comes through our screen through deck-reviews and overall forum banter. Any critique on people should be just as acceptable as critique on any given cigar.

If I were to start a thread praising a Monty Open or some 50+ RG cigar I have to prepare for the fact that A LOT of people will disagree, they'll be nice about it, but they'll disagree non the less. Like I said in the Documentary thread, I acknowledge Sucklings' knowledge and I respect his passion for Cuban Cigars and the fact that he is one of the few people that brings Cuban Cigar news and opinions to the masses, however the guy just isn't the type of person that I like, everything about him rubs me the wrong way. People hate Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga for the same reasons.... they are well loved by a lot of people and sell a ridiculous amount of albums, yet most people hate them.

I understand that the documentary thread was closed due to people criticizing work they haven't seen yet and its maker, but if we follow that logic, a cigar thread that has replies like: "I'm not going to try this cigar because: it's too expensive/I hate the size/I don't enjoy the marca/etc." should be closed for the same reasons.

[semery74]

people whom I trust tell me that he doesn't always get it right -- far from it.)

Sounds like he's human...

[El Presidente]

I've had the sense that the mods have gotten overly sensitive lately and have, on occasion, exchanged messages with mods to ask about decisions to edit or delete my posts. I feel we're guests on this forum and should adhere to the rules set here, so I don't want to rock the boat, however there is a certain "free spirited" air to this community has that has been set by Rob, Smithy, Ken and everyone else that keeps this forum going. The reason this forum has such a committed community is because we all love the laid-back Aussie mentality that comes through our screen through deck-reviews and overall forum banter. Any critique on people should be just as acceptable as critique on any given cigar.

If I were to start a thread praising a Monty Open or some 50+ RG cigar I have to prepare for the fact that A LOT of people will disagree, they'll be nice about it, but they'll disagree non the less. Like I said in the Documentary thread, I acknowledge Sucklings' knowledge and I respect his passion for Cuban Cigars and the fact that he is one of the few people that brings Cuban Cigar news and opinions to the masses, however the guy just isn't the type of person that I like, everything about him rubs me the wrong way. People hate Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga for the same reasons.... they are well loved by a lot of people and sell a ridiculous amount of albums, yet most people hate them.

I understand that the documentary thread was closed due to people criticizing work they haven't seen yet and its maker, but if we follow that logic, a cigar thread that has replies like: "I'm not going to try this cigar because: it's too expensive/I hate the size/I don't enjoy the marca/etc." should be closed for the same reasons.

The thread was not closed"because of people criticizing work they haven't seen yet and its maker"

It was closed because of abuse.

Asuming James is a Member of FOH and you are mod. Would you permit it? You can't as it breaches one of our core rules. Yet apparently he is fair game bar for the exception of membership ( He may be a member or not)

The Laid back Aussie nature you describe also has a fair part of justice to it. Keep in mind that nobody ever came to Australia because they had a lot of friends. "A fair Go" is intrinsic. Yes we take the piss out of each other etc but fairness in the how people are treated and given a fair go is central.

If you have had posts eidited or deleted (I am talking generally here) then know full well that the person doing the editing didn't want to do it and you forced him into making a call. It shouldn't have got to that point. It can happen once to anyone, twice and pull your head in.

[Colt45]

I understand that the documentary thread was closed due to people criticizing work they haven't seen yet and its maker, but if we follow that logic, a cigar thread that has replies like: "I'm not going to try this cigar because: it's too expensive/I hate the size/I don't enjoy the marca/etc." should be closed for the same reasons.

No problem discussing and disagreeing about cigars in that way. If I call you an idiot because of your opinions, I'm wrong.

We don't sit around looking for reasons to play cop.

Nor do we wish to be baby sitters.

[CBL]

If the thread was closed due to abuse I stand corrected with my earlier views on why it was closed, however I followed the thread and didn't have the feeling it was real abuse rather than criticism, might have been harsh criticism or in some opinions even unjust, but it was "only" criticism. I think everybody is done bashing Suckling and most people have had their say on the subject in earlier topics and even if some things were said about him I don't think anyone blatantly insulted him, although Suckling himself might have been insulted had he read it.... (we all saw his reaction to Anthony Bourdain's "diss")

But I do agree with El Prez that if a member made a documentary people would watch their words. I'm not ashamed to admit that posting about people anonymously without any serious repercussions makes criticizing other people so much easier.

[Van55]

The thread was not closed"because of people criticizing work they haven't seen yet and its maker"

I

It was closed because of abuse.

Straight up. Was there "abuse" on the thread that was quietly edited or deleteted? Or was the thread closed for the reason Trev posted that he closed it?

Closing a thread because it has become abusive is one thing. Closing it because it might become abusive (or worse because a moderator wants to protect a friend) is another.

FoH has stood out for me because nobody, including El Presidente is above criticism, whether good natured BS or serious flack. Don't lose that, please.

[BENN]

The thread was not closed"because of people criticizing work they haven't seen yet and its maker"

It was closed because of abuse.

Asuming James is a Member of FOH and you are mod. Would you permit it? You can't as it breaches one of our core rules. Yet apparently he is fair game bar for the exception of membership ( He may be a member or not)

The Laid back Aussie nature you describe also has a fair part of justice to it. Keep in mind that nobody ever came to Australia because they had a lot of friends. "A fair Go" is intrinsic. Yes we take the piss out of each other etc but fairness in the how people are treated and given a fair go is central.

If you have had posts eidited or deleted (I am talking generally here) then know full well that the person doing the editing didn't want to do it and you forced him into making a call. It shouldn't have got to that point. It can happen once to anyone, twice and pull your head in.

I don't see the problem! I like that this forum is civil and friendly and we have very friendly admins especially the prez. It is their call to make, if it does not suit you go somewhere else where they appreciate the bs talking.

When you have your own forum and run it do what you want there.

[El Presidente]

Straight up. Was there "abuse" on the thread that was quietly edited or deleteted? Or was the thread closed for the reason Trev posted that he closed it?

Closing a thread because it has become abusive is one thing. Closing it because it might become abusive (or worse because a moderator wants to protect a friend) is another.

FoH has stood out for me because nobody, including El Presidente is above criticism, whether good natured BS or serious flack. Don't lose that, please.

1. abuse

2. I wouldn't permit a FOH public assault on any member. if you work in the Public Arena then your work or public presentation is fair game for criticism.

I have defended JS before. We are not great mates by any means. I have watched how he treats mates of mine in Cuba away from camera's or other dignitaries. Always humble and with respect, laid back etc. I have said this before.

I am not sure how many people who enjoy hitting the JS Pinata have actually spent time with the guy. Even if you did, you may not like his style but I doubt you would out and out call him a git.

Van, even in boxing they have an umpire who's role is to step in on fouls and stop the fight when one fighter can no longer defend himself. The post the other day (UK review) was stopped for the same reason. Mean spirited criticism of someone they didn't know who could not defend himself. It never starts off mean..but it builds and builds and someone goes too far. You end up with the indignation of the mob (no offence ) and accusations you are

changing into a better looking Mussolini.

I will be buggered if I know why the mods do it at all some days.

The thread is open by the way!

[CaptainQuintero]

To be honest I think Trevour did the right thing, it's not a reflection of the mods being touchy lately, as someone said above, but more a reflection of the way some members have taken to acting recently. Over the past few months as far as I can tell we recieved a lot of new members from CA because something either happened over there or people got fed up of how their members can act. I've only been on their forum twice, saw how bad it was and never returned so I can't say what caused this migration. As far as I can tell the vast majority of people moving over have been great additions to the FOH family, but a very, very small minority have brought over the nasty attitude or lack of class which Rob mentioned that they themselves have been trying to get away from at CA.

People have been openly talking about sources in chat and posting replies to topics that while not may be openly hosilte, are not what would be considered a typically friendly FOH reply which makes this community what it is. The Cohiba review that Rob mentioned above is a perfect example, within minutes people were slating the guy about his looks, saying not to listen to him because he chewed his cigar, was overweight and was smoking too fast...really? Hardly anyone in the cigar world takes the time and balls to sit infront of a camera and talk openly and honestly, and people were hammering the guy on his looks and his smoking style. I think the mods have been very restrained by not flushing the toilet and removing the few bad apples that have been giving some of FOH a bit of a nasty taint recently.

Someone said previously in a thread 'if you haven't something nice to say then don't say it' and a few people objected to this. While both arguments have merit, people who want 'freedom of speech' will say you don't have to read it if you don't like it. That brings me to my rambling, roundabout point, they are right. This is the internet and people don't have to read it; people will simply stop reading threads and stop visiting FOH if they see these types of posts/behaviour growing or continuing.

The vast majority of people here want to visit to talk about cigars, their lives and have a good time, not worry about avoiding certain members or certain topics incase people are throwing abuse around. Rob, Smithy and Ken's videos brought most of us here and the forum is a reflection of the laidback style of friendship the videos present. The second we stop acting like Ken, Rob and Smithy and we start acting like it is CA then Rob might as well shut down the whole of FOH and stop making video reviews because his whole idea of FOH/Czar/Spitbucket being like a local corner store where friends hang out won't exist anymore.

So for the sake of our gracious hosts, the mods and the vast majority of members, please leave it at the door and just relax and have fun here.

[CaptainQuintero]

I don't see the problem! I like that this forum is civil and friendly and we have very friendly admins especially the prez. It is their call to make, if it does not suit you go somewhere else where they appreciate the bs talking.

When you have your own forum and run it do what you want there.

x2

haha damn you and your efficient posting! You know how long my sililoqy took to check over before posting

[CanuckSARTech]

Wow. Stepped away for 24 hours, and missed a lot....

[CanuckSARTech]

El Pres - right on. Well said.

Mods - I see no fault in what was done. True, I also agree with others that it was a bit heavy maybe, to pre-empt the whole thing. Might have been a better option to edit/remove any particular posts. That said....

I completely agree with Captain Quintero. He brings up a lot of my thoughts. Excellent observations and points.

Cheers gents (and ladies too!).

[Rushman]

I really feel bad because I had never seen a JS video before. Heard of him, but never spent the time to watch him. I am, however, smart enough to know that there are a great many things I DO NOT KNOW, which is why I am a member of this forum - that and the great mates.

You can rest assured I will cure my lack o JS expertise via youtube tonight.

[aes8]

Well it's nice not to be at the center of a controversy on this board or another.

I think there is something that has been touched upon but not directly stated. THIS IS ROB'S BOARD. Rob sets the rules, tone and direction of the board and the Mods enforce that direction. No discussion.

Now I will be the first to say that I wasn't happy about some of my posts and thread being deleted but too bad for me. It was the Mod's call. There isn't a BZ here, Rob doesn't believe in it (as I wish he did).

If your post can't be said directly to the person as if he/she is sitting next to you, then you probably shouldn't post whatever you just typed out. I just got done with a 15 page thread in the bz and never once did the thread become disrespectful.

Just my .02 cents.

Please feel free to delete this post

[Rushman]

I think there is something that has been touched upon but not directly stated. THIS IS ROB'S BOARD. Rob sets the rules, tone and direction of the board and the Mods enforce that direction. No discussion.

X2

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631720,-87.070611

[khomeinist]

Tempest?

Meet Teapot.

[Nino]

I have defended JS before. We are not great mates by any means. I have watched how he treats mates of mine in Cuba away from camera's or other dignitaries. Always humble and with respect, laid back etc. I have said this before.

I am not sure how many people who enjoy hitting the JS Pinata have actually spent time with the guy. Even if you did, you may not like his style but I doubt you would out and out call him a git.

Not wanting to step into the thread discussion, just a personal comment on Rob's statement above :

Having met, smoked, dined and shared time with JS in Havana over a period of time, I can only confirm Rob's words.

JS is a nice, humble, helpful and respectful guy in person who will never put himself in a "front page" attitude or request special treatment, very relaxed and easygoing with no airs, a guy you enjoy smoking a cigar and drinking a beer with, like you do with your buddies.

Maybe in the cigar review videos he comes across "different" - agreed.

My 0,2 cents.

[dicko]

If your post can't be said directly to the person as if he/she is sitting next to you, then you probably shouldn't post whatever you just typed out. .

This is a pretty damn good rule.

Also, stay out of threads where you might get upset. This is a cigar board, if controversial non-cigar topic X comes up, just leave it. If you do have something to say, go say it at another topic-specific forum!

Also, take into account the vagaries of text based communication, the tone etc is completely lost.

Also, although FOH is a truly international board, I think some members don't quiet get the Aussie concept of "pulling the piss" and I've noticed a few nasty comments in the last few months, which may or may not be serious or just an attempt at humour.

Sorry to bump this but I like threads like this, it reminds us all what a special and unique forum we have, and that we should always be vigilant to care for it.

Enjoy your smokes BOTL's!! Thanks for the forum everyone!

[CanuckSARTech]

....Also, take into account the vagaries of text based communication, the tone etc is completely lost.

Also, although FOH is a truly international board, I think some members don't quiet get the Aussie concept of "pulling the piss" and I've noticed a few nasty comments in the last few months, which may or may not be serious or just an attempt at humour....

Two great points, Dicko.

This is something that I myself, and it appear a bunch of us here, have definitely noticed in the last little bit. A thread pops up somewhere, and someone types in a post with something that, intentional or not, comes across as rude, snide, arrogant, meanly sarcastic, and/or insulting. The problem has been, in my thoughts and opinions (grain of salt that it needs), that people then try to play the "well, I didn't MEAN to be offensive" card. That whole "YOU took it the wrong way, so it's not MY fault" reasoning.

This isn't against any one person, nor just necessarily with this J.S. thread or not. Hell, not even on this forum necessarily - it's something I'm just noticing a lot in the last little bit, around me in my "real life" as well.

It just seems like some people may type things rudely, intentional or not, but then try to get out of any repercussions by playing the it-was-unintentional thing. I think people need to start thinking more about what they're typing, to ensure that tone/connotation is correct, based on what Dicko stated well as the "...vagaries of text based communication." And it sometimes seems like one of those "dish it but can't take it" situations also sometimes, where attitude is typed out, but if it comes back at them, then the initial offender gets all indignant.

No one here is perfect, and that's why we have mods. I'll take and give the piss well with some friends that I've made on here, and if anybody crosses any line, that's what PM's are for. I've asked others to do it, and I've done it myself, where you go back into a post and edit out something that maybe could be or was misinterpreted, based on a failure to correctly communication the intention behind the statement.

[greenpimp]

Can't we please just go back to making fun of Ken?

[CanuckSARTech]

Can't we please just go back to making fun of Ken?

LOL. Agreed!

[compitaveggie]

Nino and El Prez are two guys whos opinion of JS matters to me. I much rather he come off as annoying on tape to some, and be a kind humble person in reality, then look like a kind humble person on camera, but in reality be an ahole. I have never met JS but from what Nino and El Prez have said, i'll continue to see give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jose Aguayo

[JohnnyC]

Nino and El Prez are two guys whos opinion of JS matters to me. I much rather he come off as annoying on tape to some, and be a kind humble person in reality, then look like a kind humble person on camera, but in reality be an ahole. I have never met JS but from what Nino and El Prez have said, i'll continue to see give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jose Aguayo

Well said Jose. I also have never met James Suckling but always enjoy his opinions about Cuban Cigars and the passion he emits about Cuba and the Cuban people. I have not smoked cigars in years before I started reading some of his articles and video reviews in CA. I first visited Cuba 4 years ago, with my family, mainly because of J.S.peaked my interest with his reviews and insights about Cuba. While there in Cuba I discovered not only the wonders of enjoying a fine cigar but more importantly the Cuban people. I would have never appreciated either if J.S. had not peaked my interest. So I know he gets bashed often but I must give him a thumbs up helping me discover one of life's simple pleasures... family , friends and cigars.

[mazolaman]

I blame the capitalist system...