Well It Happened . . .

[Orion21]

The Australian Supreme Court upheld the plain packaging legislation Prez has been warning us about. It is such big news it made it to the US on CNN's website. Another loss for personal freedoms World Wide. Look out Britain, Norway, New Zealand, Canada and India . . .

From Reuters:

The decision means that from December 1 cigarettes and tobacco products must be sold in plain olive green packets without special colorful branding. Instead, packages must display graphic health warnings including pictures of mouth cancer and other smoking-related illnesses.

Tobacco giants British American Tobacco, Britain's Imperial Tobacco, Philip Morris and Japan Tobacco challenged the laws in Australia's High Court, claiming the rules were unconstitutional because they effectively extinguished their intellectual property rights.

In a brief statement, the High Court said a majority of its seven judges believed the laws did not breach Australia's constitution. A full judgment will be released later.

The laws are in line with World Health Organisation recommendations and are being watched closely by Britain, Norway, New Zealand, Canada and India, who are considering similar measures to help fight smoking.

[ramon_cojones]

Atrocious, absolutely atrocious.

[Puros Y Vino]

Yeah. I heard this on the radio this morning. Pathetic.

[Orion21]

The "civilized" world is being overrun by people that have nothing better to do than complain about every single thing they don't agree with and legislate what they feel is in "our best interest." And to be 100% accurate these people mainly reside in public service or special interest groups who are working together to create a completely totalitarian world structure.

"a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible. Totalitarian regimes stay in political power through an all-encompassing propaganda campaign, which is disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by political repression, personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech..."

Fits pretty well, doesn't it?

[jazzbass]

This will destroy our ability to identify proper cigar bands and packaging to the point where counterfeiters will have a field day.

[SpeedGeek]

Simply ridiculous.

[IcedCanuck]

I fear Australia is about to become the cigar counterfeit capital of the world. Will Czar have to abide by this nonsense even when shipping outside of Australia? How am I supposed to distinguish box 'A' from box 'B' and forget about buying singles because by the time they make it in my humidor I'll have no clue what they are anymore.

[Orion21]

Australia is basically trying to eliminate the sale of tobacco within it's borders without officially "banning" the sale of tobacco. The politicians and activists are slowly creating their own precedent legally to make tobacco products "illegal."

This is there real tactic:

"The laws are in line with World Health Organisation recommendations and are being watched closely by Britain, Norway, New Zealand, Canada and India, who are considering similar measures to help fight smoking.

The World Health Organisation estimates that more than 1 billion people around the world are regular smokers, with 80 percent in low- and middle-income countries.

Australian Attorney-General Nicola Roxon hailed the ruling as "a watershed moment for tobacco control around the world".

"The message to the rest of the world is big tobacco can be taken on and beaten," said Roxon, whose father, a smoker, died of cancer when she was 10."

Basically what they are saying is that since 80% of regular smokers are from middle to low income countries they obviously can't be educated enough to know what they are doing. So intern, as a World Organization it is their duty to protect them from themselves. Additionally, I love how they threw in how Australia's Attorney General lost her smoker father to cancer at 10. They don't state what kind of cancer or if it was caused by smoking. They obviously want to link the death of her father to smoking to bolster the validity of the decision. Finally, the law specifically targets cigarettes, but includes all tobacco products. Easier to create a blanket law.

[ajgagnon]

Perhaps the best challenge would be one of lost economic value from outside of Australia resulting from the proliferation of fakes... i.e. something under a WTO-type body. I doubt it would work, but there will clearly be huge potential for disrupting a global market in what is already a market challenged by counterfeiting. Say what you want about cigarettes, but cigars are based on uniqueness, handcrafting and enjoyment of artisanal creations.

You can see how anit-tobacco legislation tries to pin the whole debate on tobacco, rather than cigarettes. To leave any part of tobacco not covered by a ban would only invite the cigarette giants to complain of unfair treatment. But the product is not the same, the use is not the same, and the hazards are arguably not the same. Certainly, the creation and enjoyment are not the same, nor are the companies who create and market them.

[nonameno]

Hello Fellow FOHers',

Well, this is indeed bad news! But isn't this exactly what the Prez has been preparing for by having offshore warehousing and shipping capabilities? I am fearful that this "protectionist cancer" will spread to other countries too. I would like to think that we Americans will be too stubborn and independent, but that did not save our Australian friends. And, besides, we have plenty of politicians over here who want to "take care of everyone" whether they want it or not!

Thank you and best wishes,

Curtiss

[Orion21]

In the US, at least, a recent court ruling saved us for now:

2/29/2012

A federal judge on Wednesday declared unconstitutional a Food and Drug Administration requirement that tobacco companies prominently display graphic warning labels on cigarette packages.

Judge Richard J. Leon of the United States District Court in Washington ruled that forcing the companies to use the labels, which show staged images like a man breathing smoke out of a tracheotomy hole in his neck and a mouth punctured with what appear to be cancerous lesions, violated their free speech rights under the First Amendment.

“The government’s interest in advocating a message cannot and does not outweigh plaintiff’s First Amendment right to not be the government’s messenger,” Judge Leon wrote.

Too bad Australia values regulation of personal choice more than free speech and the rights to intellectual property...

[Hollywood414]

I'm not from Australia so this doesn't affect me and I totally DO NOT agree with it but what I don't understand is why this isn't being done for alcohol as well. If the whole point is to stop glorifying a product that is hazardous to your health, why not have plain bottling for all alcoholic beverages? Consider all the alcoholics and people killed by drunk drivers. Or all the health risks associated with drinking. It doesn't make any sense to single out tobacco products as they aren't the only hazardous product legal for use that uses fancy, artistic packaging. Or is this a possibility also?

[Hollywood414]

I don't understand what this law was supposed to accomplish and why tobacco was the only target of plain packaging if they were looking out for the health of the citizens of Australia.

[Orion21]

Because it's an easy target. And don't believe for a second that because we are in the US we are safe from this. Foreign law is being used to justify all sorts of new laws and regulations in the US. The only thing standing between us and being like Australia are judges like Richard Leon who won't allow the government and activists to run rough shot over our rights...for now.

[Duxnutz]

What a load of

[Guest rob]

I'm not from Australia so this doesn't affect me and I totally DO NOT agree with it but what I don't understand is why this isn't being done for alcohol as well. If the whole point is to stop glorifying a product that is hazardous to your health, why not have plain bottling for all alcoholic beverages? Consider all the alcoholics and people killed by drunk drivers. Or all the health risks associated with drinking. It doesn't make any sense to single out tobacco products as they aren't the only hazardous product legal for use that uses fancy, artistic packaging. Or is this a possibility also?

Their argument is that alcohol is safe in moderation.... but there is no safe use of tobacco - any exposure is unsafe.

[Puros Y Vino]

Their argument is that alcohol is safe in moderation.... but there is no safe use of tobacco - any exposure is

unsafe.

You're probably right. But...doesn't every swig of alcohol basically kill a million brain cells? Does tobacco do the same thing? I wonder what the outcry would be if fancy wine bottles got covered in olive green generic labels?

[nonameno]

Yeah...and my grandfather died after 94 years of exposing himself to cigars, all day, every day!

(of course, the politicians NEVER asked him! )

Their argument is that alcohol is safe in moderation.... but there is no safe use of tobacco - any exposure is unsafe.

[nikesupremedunk]

And since when did any government ever care about the citizens' well being? Ridiculous.

[CaptainQuintero]

It's like Rob said, he could go and buy a bundle of 25 honduran cigars for $15, write Cohiba Esplendido on them and sell them for £750.

I hope the above method is taken up when selling to politicians.

All this has done is ensure the elimination of tax revenue for the Aus Government, and cigar smokers down under will smoke twice as much (with the savings they make by buying elsewhere. So win-win for the smokers!

Mark my words though, no one has ever killed anyone, vomited in the street, gotten into a brawl, beat up their wife or ran someone over in a car because they smoked too much tobacco. This legistlation will spread out around the world and then alcohol will be the next victim, then fast food.

[Guest rob]

I'm not defending the governments actions... but explaining what I understand of their reasons for this ridiculous decision.

If it wasn't for cigarettes addictive nature... then we likely wouldn't have had a problem.This came about because of cigarettes' negative health effects AND addictive qualities.

Alcohol is relative safe from both in controlled moderated quantity - they succesfully argued tobacco is both addictive and unsafe in any quantity.

[Paul3]

Disappointing news and not just a little disconcerting for cigar smokers around the world. As Orion pointed out, here in the U.S., we are already under attack from the FDA and it's attempts at gaining regulatory authority over tobacco products. If there is a bright side H.R. 1639 and S. 1461 continue to gain support from members of Congress providing us some hope that we will be allowed to maintain our personal freedoms...sounds absurd having to say that, "be allowed to maintain our personal freedoms", but that is what it has come down to. We've already seen recent examples in NY. Who would have ever guessed that one day a local government would try to regulate the size of a glass of soda you could purchase?

It will be interesting to see how this ruling spreads, how it influences future rulings in countries other than Australia, how it's going to harm the tobacco business on the job front, new strategies to counter the inevitable counterfeit market and how long until those new methods become effective to the point that the consumer is comfortable purchasing the product.

[CaptainQuintero]

Disappointing news and not just a little disconcerting for cigar smokers around the world. As Orion pointed out, here in the U.S., we are already under attack from the FDA and it's attempts at gaining regulatory authority over tobacco products. If there is a bright side H.R. 1639 and S. 1461 continue to gain support from members of Congress providing us some hope that we will be allowed to maintain our personal freedoms...sounds absurd having to say that, "be allowed to maintain our personal freedoms", but that is what it has come down to. We've already seen recent examples in NY. Who would have ever guessed that one day a local government would try to regulate the size of a glass of soda you could purchase?

It will be interesting to see how this ruling spreads, how it influences future rulings in countries other than Australia, how it's going to harm the tobacco business on the job front, new strategies to counter the inevitable counterfeit market and how long until those new methods become effective to the point that the consumer is comfortable purchasing the product.

It's half way here in the UK and the scum have just finished examining whether to go the way of plain packaging ala down udner, so we'll find out what they decide is best for us in the coming weeks.

I've heard whispers it's coming to the US following the sticker legislation and ditto with Canada. The EU will almost certainly do it as they love this kind of stuff.

[canadianbeaver]

This may be the stoopidest thing you read today but I am in kind of a squirrelly mood...

About three times a day I read news online from several sources, Canadian and US. Folks parish from all kinds of unfortunate circumstances that are both legal and illegal. Guns, cars, alcohol, bombs, dogs, lions, sharks, fires, flood, famine, choking on food, falling down mines- you get the idea.

Not once have I ever seen a story about a fellow or lady dying due to a fine Cuban cigar.

[Guest rob]

The thing that makes me shake my head is the beaurocracy's adamant statements of accomplishment.... Wallowing in their own bullshit.

In the 90's they banned cigarette advertising claiming it would diminish public's appetite for tobacco. Fail.

In the late 90's and early 00's they mandated graphic health warnings on all packaging claiming it would turn people off wanting to continue smoking. Fail.

In the late 00's they mandated removing all shops from having products on display, claiming if they were out of sight they were out of mind. Fail.

All of this coupled with twice yearly tax increases, slashing duty free allowances etc..... And yet people still want to smoke.

Now this bullshit with Plain Packaging.

We all (even them) know this will not work.... But they stand on their ******* perches proclaiming victory. They are ******* idiots and the public swallow their ****.