Nino Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It doesn't say 6 hours. I added 2 hours to the 4 hours with fingers crossed that the extra time would be good. I don't have any aversion to leaving it in the cold for 2 days, aside from the wife stumbling eventually onto it So it doesn't say 6 hrs, but you have read 4 hrs and added 2 hrs for additional extra time .... Complicated calculation to say the least. I actually also used the same guidelines from the thread posted by Supr as well...saran wrap cigars and place in zip lock bag, 1 day in fridge, 4 days in freezer, 1 day back in fridge, few hours out and then into the humi. No further issues since. If you freeze cigars, that is the proper way to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Speaking of freezing time without specifying what temperature is completely useless. According to the books and studies I consulted, at the temperature of a household freezer (-18°C/-20°C), for 100% mortality of eggs, larvae, nymphs and adults, the minimum is 5 days. btw, a few years ago, the staff at the LCDH in Köln told a friend of mine that they froze at -40°C for 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stogiecidal Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Speaking of freezing time without specifying what temperature is completely useless. According to the books and studies I consulted, at the temperature of a household freezer (-18°C/-20°C), for 100% mortality of eggs, larvae, nymphs and adults, the minimum is 5 days. btw, a few years ago, the staff at the LCDH in Köln told a friend of mine that they froze at -40°C for 2 days. I checked the temp in my freezer and iirc it was around -12°C. As I used the link previous posted, I based the time in freezer against the -10°C data. Based on your info provided, more time in the freezer would be ideal. Few more days wouldn't hurt for piece of mind imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I also use a dedicated but small chest style deep freeze to help manage our volume of inventory coming in. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631698,-87.070666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuprHasan Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 So it doesn't say 6 hrs, but you have read 4 hrs and added 2 hrs for additional extra time .... Complicated calculation to say the least. If you freeze cigars, that is the proper way to do it Based on this new info, I'll have to change my ways. 4 days in the freezer is a long time, but well worth it. Thanks Nino and B3. I guess that means no more hiding new purchases from the Mrs....and she's going to be pi..ed off when I take up all the freezer space for so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I do say where it says 6 hours, in the first post: Acclimated Larval (acclimated at 15 Celsius for 3 months to determine acclimation impact if any) -20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr -15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 6 hr But in the text of the post he goes on to add another 3 days or so of process... (12 hours plus 48 hours + 12-24 hours). By the way, add the photo at the bottom and all I can say is, yeeechhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I do say where it says 6 hours, in the first post: Acclimated Larval (acclimated at 15 Celsius for 3 months to determine acclimation impact if any) -20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr -15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 6 hr But in the text of the post he goes on to add another 3 days or so of process... (12 hours plus 48 hours + 12-24 hours). These figures are completely wrong. Even if you add 3 days, it's still largely insufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Based on this new info, I'll have to change my ways. 4 days in the freezer is a long time, but well worth it. Thanks Nino and B3. I guess that means no more hiding new purchases from the Mrs....and she's going to be pi..ed off when I take up all the freezer space for so long If you have a temperature problem, ie high temp ( over 20/22 C ) in your cigar storage then it is indeed well worth considering freezing. Buy the Mrs some flowers ... and add ice cream for her into the freezer Acclimated Larval (acclimated at 15 Celsius for 3 months to determine acclimation impact if any) -20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr -15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 6 hr Thanks for that information/clarification - although it seems quite short when I froze cigars I'd have them in the freezer for 4 days at -20 and never had any issues, but that's a long time back and I don't freeze anymore, so "chacon a son ragout" as we say around here PS : It just occured to me that that short timeframe might refer to the larvae and NOT to the eggs, those are the important issue that has to be killed and I guess that takes rather more time ... No use in freeze-killing the larvae and leaving the eggs ready to hatch again after returning to the humidor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backslide Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I don't freeze my cigars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stogiecidal Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 These figures are completely wrong. Even if you add 3 days, it's still largely insufficient. Based on your figures of 5 days at -20°C to achieve 100% mortality across all stages of beetle development, I calculate it would take 8.333 days to achieve this at -12°C. Gonna check the temp of freezer again with a digital thermometer and adjust the timing as necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 These figures are completely wrong. Even if you add 3 days, it's still largely insufficient. To be clear "I" is wrong... should say "It". I was just cut and pasting the article!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonVivant Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68091&st=0&p=68252&hl=41_87.pdf&fromsearch=1entry68252 http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67194&st=0&p=67234&hl=41_87.pdf&fromsearch=1entry67234 41_87.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokem Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 No. No issues for ~15 years now,knock on wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 To make it easier, I believe that the abstract of the paper quoted in that pdf provides all the necessary information ( and gives me peace of mind ... ). The bold text is by me. Low-temperature as an alternative to fumigation to disinfest stored tobacco of the cigarette beetle, Lasioderma serricorne Toshihiro IMAI* and Haruyasu HARADA Leaf Tobacco Research Center, Japan Tobacco Inc.; Oyama 323–0808, Japan (Received 1 April 2005; Accepted 5 October 2005) Abstract Time-temperature-mortality relationships for egg, larval, pupal, and adult stages of the cigarette beetle, Lasioderma serricorne were investigated to determine disinfesting conditions for stored tobacco. Susceptibility to low temperatures changed according to the developmental stage. Eggs were most susceptible to low temperatures that were higher than _5°C. Larvae acquired cold tolerance during exposure to 15°C for 1 mo. These acclimated larvae were the most tolerant of all. LT99 values of acclimated larvae were calculated as 7.2 h at _15°C, 23.7 h at _10°C, 376 h at _5°C, 1,140 h at 0°C, and 1,880 h at 5°C. As the most susceptible stage, egg susceptibility to moderately low temperatures (16–20°C) was specifically examined. At 20°C, most eggs (_80%) normally hatched within 4 wk, but all eggs died within 6 wk at temperatures less than 18°C. This fact indicates that the reproductive cycle can be blocked at temperatures less than 18°C, and that tobacco stored in such conditions will never become infested, even if eggs are deposited by invading adults. Consequently, if the tobacco temperature is reduced to 5°C for 3 mo in winter and is subsequently maintained below 18°C throughout the rest of the year, tobacco can become and remain pest-free without any chemical control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvickery Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 the original question...do you freeze???yes i do. did not freeze from 1971 to 2001...then i got to see live little horrors first hand...now i freeze ALWAYS. years before any study came out to bicker about...i was doing this... in zippies... fridge...1 day freezer(chest type...my thermometer went to -28c)...3 days fridge...1 day kitchen table out of zippies...one day into humi or new arrivals cooler has worked fine for over a decade of "beetleless" cigar storage. derrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCgarman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 After a few minor beetle outbreaks in the past I freeze everything that I purchase now. Living in Northern Virginia it gets extremely hot here in the summer and my wife will not let me keep the AC below around 72degrees F because 1. my mother in law lives with us and she is always cold, 2. The electric bill is extremely high in the summer and 3. when it is 100 degrees outside, it is impossible to cool a house down to 65 degrees. I freeze all new boxes on arrival in a dedicated upright freezer set to the coldest thermostat setting allowable. This freezer gets colder that the freezer part of the refrigerator. Since freezing, I have not seen one beetle hole in a cigar or any signs of beetles. As an added insurance, I use a couple of reusable frozen cold packs in my cabinet to try and keep the temp in the low 60's Farenheit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingballs Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 So do you think the cigars are froze before going into OLH? Even though it already went through freezing process before leaving Cuba? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 So do you think the cigars are froze before going into OLH? Even though it already went through freezing process before leaving Cuba? In Cuba yes (hopefully) but doubtful before entry into OLH. I trust robs storage over mine anyway, so I'm comfortable. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.630147,-87.069888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingballs Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 It was not a question of Rob's storage technique, if so he would not be my only trusted cigar vendor! More of statement of curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersomniac Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I live in North Dakota, of course I freeze. Oh, you meant freezing cigars. That, I have never tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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