Further thoughts and updates on Coolerdor stuff (freezing, vacuum bagging, polymer crystals, etc.)....

[CanuckSARTech]

So, it's been a bit, and I'm just now getting a chance to do this as an update. I had put some info and pics in a thread that I started about a custom humidor cabinet that I built, along with some further coolerdors:

"CanuckSARTech's Custom Humidor Cabinet": http://www.friendsof...howtopic=102883

Therefore, I'd like to share some further thoughts and observations on the above, as well as other items like RH Beads' performance, replacing the reservoir sponge out of your Cigar Oasis / Hydra unit with superabsorbent polymer crystals, and cigar freezing and/or vacuum bagging.

Firstly, some further observations of the custom humidor cabinet's performance....

After over two years in use now, my custom humidor cabinet has been running like a top. For those who may have been on the fence about doing something like this yourself - go for it. With over two years passed now, and including two cold and dry winters under it's belt, this thing did great. For the three months or so over winter that the temps outdoors are sub-freezing, my house has anywhere between 22% to 40% RH inside on average. So, the sealing system has performed well in the methodology that I explained earlier about the construction of that cabinet to be able to perform in keeping the humidor interior at the wanted 64-66% RH level. Inside, there are two 8-oz (1/2 lb) mesh bags of RH Beads (65% RH), and one Cigar Oasis Plus XL (now with the reservoir having the green florist's foam sponge replaced with superabsorbent polymer crystals), as well as an Oust fan running.

Over the spring/summer/fall, and just from general observations, the Cigar Oasis unit appears to turn on once or twice a day maybe as an average (in the more humid summer months, sometimes only once every few days). Over the winter, the unit turns on more frequently as the air gets dryer as we get further into the winter, up to about two or three times per hour.

Regarding refilling the Cigar Oasis with distilled water, it's been fairly good. In the spring, I'm re-filling the approx. 6 oz reservoir about twice for the season (home RH in the 40-55% range); summer, I'm refilling it either not at all or only once per the whole season (home RH in the 50% to 70% range); fall, I'm refilling it about once for the season (home RH right in the 50% down to 40% range); and then in the winter, I'm refilling it about once every month-and-a-half or two (home RH in the 20% to 40% range). The RH Beads are not / have not been re-saturated at all in the two years that they've been in there - I solely have them in there as a buffer for the more humid summer months, and to help level things out throughout the year. With all of this, and using calibrated Xikar hygrometers, my RH has generally stayed at 64-66% RH throughout the year, with the main area of that cabinet sometimes straying up into the 67-68% range right at the end of summer (generally, right near the end of summer's higher RH level, as well as after the Cigar Oasis unit has been refilled, which is placed in that bottom area). But things are nicely levelled off throughout the cabinet by the Oust fan being placed just below the upper drawer, and helping to cycle the air throughout the cabinet 24/7, even when the Cigar Oasis unit's fan isn't running.

Similarly, with my coolerdors....

I have three 8-oz (1/2 lb) mesh bags of RH Beads (65% RH) in each of them, as well as an Oust fan running in each one also. The three 100-quart coolers that I now have help give me lots of added storage space for stuff that isn't currently in my main rotation - stuff that isn't in my cabinet, due to a need/want to age them for a number of years yet, or even just due to being a once-in-a-while treat, and therefore not needed to take up prime space in my cabinet.

Using this humidification, and as described in my other thread with this (with regards to how/where these coolerdors are placed, and the home temperature particulars), these things have been great as well. The temperature level has generally stayed in the 64 to 67 degrees Fahrenheit range. But, the humidity has been a bit more sloping - from a low of 61% RH, up to right at about 70%. That's a bit of a range there. But that, I'm somewhat attributing to the material of the coolerdor being unable to absorb excess moisture, as well as the occasional addition of new/fresh boxes from overseas, so there's usually a slight spike in RH that I notice afterwards, as the cigar acclimatize to the new environment. But with the added cedar floor base to these coolerdors, there's a minimalization of that now, as well as a minimal variance of RH from top to bottom, with the cedar on the interior base of the cooler being the "buffer" between the cool-spot of the base of the cooler on the cold cement.

All told, between the Cigar Oasis in the cabinet, and then the RH Beads throughout all coolers as well, I’ve just today finished up a 4 litre / 1 gallon jug of distilled water that I purchased just a bit after I finished up my custom cabinet. So, about two years of usage on that single jug of distilled water on all this storage. Working good so far!

[CanuckSARTech]

Now, I’ve also had a couple of members PM or e-mail me over the past year or so about superabsorbent polymer crystals. We’ve had some occasional discussion threads pop up now and again about these. Generally, it’s concerning using these as a method of replacing the green florist’s foam that’s usually found in water reservoirs for some of the Cigar Oasis or Hydra electronic active humidification systems.

At the start of the year, when we were still in our last winter, I ordered some of these for this reason. I must say….I’m very pleased at how these have been performing. I find my Cigar Oasis XL Plus unit has been performing better and more efficiently as the water storage medium. It seems like the added air movement around all of the different jelly-like crystals (rather than just over the surface of the block of green foam originally) helps to better transfer the water vapour into the air being cycled out by the unit’s fan. Air flow seems somewhat better (just using a Kleenex for the before-and-after air movement, nominally), and it seems like the fan isn’t “working” as hard.

Getting the foam out is a pain in the arse. I had to use a small children’s spoon to fit into the reservoir’s main opening (as you can’t exactly open it up fully). I had to take my time to hack and chip away at the foam, removing a bit at a time. I then thoroughly washed it out of any pieces or residue, and then also took the time to rinse it out and let it sit in a mild bleach-water solution (one tablespoon bleach per litre/1/4 gallon of water). I then rinsed it thoroughly, and put in the jelly-like crystals.

The crystals are relatively easy to find on eBay or other on-line vendors. There’s a few different varieties, based on usage (some have phosphers or other such chemicals in them apparently, so be careful). The ones I got were the larger size crystals, and were marketed as for worm / bug hydration in aquariums and whatnot. Like other things that are out there with cigars, I opted for the stuff that didn’t have the added colours to it (just unsure what this may do to the Cigar Oasis unit, or to my cigars long-term).

The crystals need to be prepped/charged. They come dried out, and need to be rehydrated. A little goes a VERY LONG WAY with these – only a ½ tablespoon of the dried crystals were what I needed to refill the entire space within the Cigar Oasis XL Plus reservoir, once they were rehydrated. To do this, I put initially way too much (1 tablespoon) of the crystals inside of a fairly large dinner bowl, and then filled it with distilled water (yes, still use distilled water with these, for longevity). The crystals absorb the water molecules, but certain contaminant/deposits from regular water will gunk them up (this is still basically the same stuff that’s in the crystal humidifier elements that are on the market now from the different cigar companies). The crystals have to sit and absorb the water for 24 hours initially when you’re prepping them. I checked on the crystals every 6 hours or so, and added more distilled water as needed, to keep the bowl nice and full of water. After the 24 hours, I simply spooned them into the Cigar Oasis reservoir. I had way too much – enough to fill two different reservoirs that I had, and still tons left over in the bowl.

Again, I find these to be a huge improvement over the florists foam. About 8 or 9 months in use now, and improved efficiency of my Cigar Oasis, no mold or odor issues, better water transfer, and more water retention (the weighed volume of water held in these, compared to the florists foam, amounts to just over double the volume of water that the reservoir can actually hold – the material volume that the crystals take up is much less than the foam). Even in winter months, when the Cigar Oasis unit is running fairly frequently for a decent sized cabinet, the water volume is large enough in capacity that refills are less than when I had the green foam in there.

For the pennies that it costs to get some of these crystals, it’s a huge benefit if you’re looking to replace the standard foam out of your reservoir.

[CanuckSARTech]

And lastly, we’ve had a number of threads pop up about freezing cigars, including vacuum packing for long-term aging.

Do I freeze my cigars? Yes. I didn’t always, but I came to understand that it just makes sense – it’s a bit of an added hassle, but it’s sure nice insurance. It’s a lot better than opening up a nice fresh box of cigars, and finding a bunch of freeloaders have nibbled away at my stash.

There’s been a paper about it, of which it’s been spread around the forum here, and can also be found on the Cuban Cigar Website. An invaluable resource, if you’re curious about the subject:

Low-Temperature Disinfestation of Tobacco Beetles (research article).pdf

Basically, after reading that article a few years back, and figuring out what my fridge / freezer temps are, I figured out the following basic methodology that I follow religiously, and I definitely recommend for others to try out, if not permanently use….

Unpack, inspect, bag up, fridge for two days, freezer for two days, back in fridge for two days, in coolerdor (still in baggie), check at one month, three months, six months, and then vacuum pack at six months for long-term storage.

When I get a fresh shipment of cigars in, I unpack and inspect. This includes taking pictures and whatnot for my storage/insurance reasons. I then inspect ALL layers/levels of cigars, checking for damage/bugs/mold. If any mold is found, and it’s not extreme, I simply attribute it to a slight overhumidifcation at one stage in transit (sometimes it takes up to 3 weeks for me to get cigars), and I simply brush it off with a clean and fresh paintbrush.

I then bag the box(es) up into a good quality freezer ziplock bag. I use a fresh bag for every new box, to ensure no potential cross-contamination, and to avoid reusing bags that may get ripped in the process (and therefore no longer airtight for the process). Making sure it’s well sealed, I then place it in the fridge for two days, to gently cool it from room temp. Then, into the freezer for two days, and then back into the fridge for another two days. Using this method, it more than / should kill off any tobacco beetle larva/eggs/adults. And, this gives a long timeline of acclimatization, so I don’t have to worry about split wrappers or cracked feet on my cigars, from too rapid of temperature changes.

Then, once out of the final two days in the fridge, I put them back into the coolerdors, still in the freezer ziplock bag. I then check on them after about a month being back in there, and remove and throw out the freezer bag then. I check the cigar at this point, after being back in there for a month and at correct temp and humidity, for any signs of bugs or mold. Then, back into the coolerdor, and check on them again at three months and six months – if no issues at that point, then I know they’re gonna be A-OK for a long-term sleep if needed.

Now, this is another point that’s been getting brought up on here – for cigars in long-term storage, does anyone vacuum pack? Well, for about the past year and a bit, I’ve started doing this.

I use a standard consumer model, generally used for sealing foods and veggies. The heavy-duty bags that you use with these are amazing – very tough and thick and resilient. They can be easily heat-sealed into different sizes, to accommodate large and small boxes. I’ve being using this now, and have sealed all my long-term boxes. I’ve even cut open a few vac-sealed bags, and sampled some at 3-, 6-, and 10-months, to see if there’s any negative side effects (then I've re-vac-sealed up the boxes again). I haven’t noticed any negative drawbacks – if anything, the preservation and isolation of that individual box seems to magnify the aromas present when opening them, and while the aging is helping to smooth the cigars out, I find they’re losing less of their flavours while in this storage means (still, I will definitely concede that with less than a year through this process so far, the difference is definitely negligible, if not even maybe "all in my head"). I’ve got some of these same cigars set out in my cabinet humidor, and then the rest in a vacuum-packed sealed bag (some older but very nice Monte 4’s). And the results, while unscientific and un-blind, does seem to bold well for the future of my other cigars. I’ve cracked another box after a year in there, and again, just wonderful.

So, from about the start of this summer onwards, I’ve sealed all of my long-term storage cigars, stuff that I want to leave alone and age for 3 years plus, and/or cigars that I’ve already got a box on the go in my cabinet.

What I’ve been doing is not doing a full and complete vacuuming out of all the air. Instead, I’ve been cutting the cycle short on the machine, and pre-maturely heat sealing the bag to stop the process, when the vacuum is about ¾ to 80% done, so that there’s still a minimal amount of air contained within to still help with aging a bit, but to instead just better isolate the box from outside interference from compounds from other boxes. Sounds weird, I know, but it appears to be working. But so far, unnoticeable taste difference between fully-vacuumed boxes, or other boxes which this 80% rationale has been applied to.

But, my only piece of caution is to be careful if you’re vacuum sealing up a partially full box. It’s very easy for the strength of the bag and the vacuum sealer to end up putting such a negative air pressure on the box that a partially full box can actually begin to collapse and break within the bag.

Anywho, those are some updates and thoughts on some of what I’ve been doing with my collection over the past year and a bit, as it relates to some recent threads on these subjects here on the forum.

Your results may vary, but I highly recommend any or all of the above to anyone thinking about trying.

Cheers all.

[Jszeto]

I would like to say how thankful and appreciative I am for you to share this information with us. This will be extremely useful and will be referenced for those who seek guidance for storage. Thank you!

[ritan]

Thank you for your update. We all spend too much time thinking over storage for our cigars, I know I do, thus it is very comforting to see such a practical, time-proven methodology at work.

Thanks again for taking the time and effort to put together such an informative series of posts.

[Wil]

Great thread.

Given that zip lock bags are permeable (i think?), is there a risk that the cigars will take on food smells when in the fridge/freezer?

[Jszeto]

Great thread.

Given that zip lock bags are permeable (i think?), is there a risk that the cigars will take on food smells when in the fridge/freezer?

Good question, I was wondering the same as well.

[CanuckSARTech]

Great thread.

Given that zip lock bags are permeable (i think?), is there a risk that the cigars will take on food smells when in the fridge/freezer?

Now, for basic argumentative purposes, relatively all mediums are permeable, be it standard zip lock "sandwich" bags, heavy duty freezer bags, hard plastic "Glad-ware" containers, food sealer vacuum bag material, etc, etc. However, there's a huge difference between some of those.

I use heavy-duty freezer ziplock bags when I put them in there - these are very dense and resilient plastic bags. Generally, when I put these into the fridge for that portion at the start and the end of the freezing process, I try to ensure that the cigars are somewhat separate. They aren't put in with anything with strong aromas or flavours - not near fish, onions, etc., etc., when in any of the fridge drawers. When in the freezer, things in there are generally already long frozen - there's no real transfer of aromas that's capable, at those temps, through those bagging mediums, in that relatively minimal of time.

Also, my wife and I religiously change out our fridge & freezer baking soda packs every other month. We have one in both compartments of the fridge and freezer. Those things definitely help absorb any errant aromas and whatnot.

Anywho, I've not noticed any aroma or flavour transfer at all.

When I'm done the fridge & freezer process, these then go into the coolerdors for a settling out period. Then, after sitting in there for a while, and then some further inspection time and whatnot, these then get sealed in the foodsealer bags for long-term storage.

[Wil]

Now, for basic argumentative purposes, relatively all mediums are permeable, be it standard zip lock "sandwich" bags, heavy duty freezer bags, hard plastic "Glad-ware" containers, food sealer vacuum bag material, etc, etc. However, there's a huge difference between some of those.

I use heavy-duty freezer ziplock bags when I put them in there - these are very dense and resilient plastic bags. Generally, when I put these into the fridge for that portion at the start and the end of the freezing process, I try to ensure that the cigars are somewhat separate. They aren't put in with anything with strong aromas or flavours - not near fish, onions, etc., etc., when in any of the fridge drawers. When in the freezer, things in there are generally already long frozen - there's no real transfer of aromas that's capable, at those temps, through those bagging mediums, in that relatively minimal of time.

Also, my wife and I religiously change out our fridge & freezer baking soda packs every other month. We have one in both compartments of the fridge and freezer. Those things definitely help absorb any errant aromas and whatnot.

Anywho, I've not noticed any aroma or flavour transfer at all.

When I'm done the fridge & freezer process, these then go into the coolerdors for a settling out period. Then, after sitting in there for a while, and then some further inspection time and whatnot, these then get sealed in the foodsealer bags for long-term storage.

Thanks - appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I'm torn on whether to freeze at the moment. The two things going against me freezing are (1) laziness and (2) I keep my cigars at 14c so the risk is minimal. That said, I probably should.

[CanuckSARTech]

I completely get that, Wil.

For me, it's very value added, as my storage is not refridgerated, and can easily creep up over the 70 F / 20 C range at certain times during the year, for a number of days at a time.

It's insurance for me, and for others. You just have to weigh out the cost-versus-benefits. If your storage could potentially fail you, and the temps increase, the odds of it happening are what makes doing this worthwhile.

But yes, it is a bit of a hassle sometime.

[Ginseng]

Nicely done. Great thread from the pictures to the writing. I am enjoying this very informative thread.

Wilkey

[mk05]

Well done. mmmm....tasty worms.

[CanuckSARTech]

A little bump for this, for those with bead and polymer gel questions.

Cheers.

[superconductor71]

Doing the polymer gel mod today and I just have a couple questions:

Regarding the mod itself:

When washing out the resevoir to get rid of remaining foam particles, am I washing with distilled water? Does it matter?

When adding charged crystals, do I also add additonal water into the chamber?

I will be keeping two additional 1/2 lb bags of 65% heartfelt beads for stability.

Do I need to keep the drainhole plugged? It would seem that with an active system i place that the drainhole might need to be unplugged in order to help counteract RH creep.

I do understand Piggy's point of view in order to have an active humidification and de-humidification cycle in place, but short of that, is it best to keep the drainhole plugged or unplugged with a Cigar Oasis running?

The cooler itself is not powered on at all....(no active cooling or compressor running).

Thanks,

~Drew

[superconductor71]

Also, the crystals I have are of the smaller variety. Will that make any difference?

[Stogieninja]

Wow what a write up!

[PapaDisco]

you guys mixing active (cigar oasis) and passive (beads) humidification in the same unit; are you setting the active unit to a slightly lower target rH than the beads you use?

[CanuckSARTech]

Bump. Received a few e-mails and PM's over the past few months about this.

[dowjr1]

I like the crystal idea. How are these better than water beads?

[CanuckSARTech]

The crystals hold a lot more water. Plus, they're roughly 70% RH for their release point, give or take. I use them as my storage medium for the active system (Cigar Oasis unit) in my cabinet, as they don't have the mold issues that the green foam has. Plus, the Cigar Oasis units are intrinsically slightly inaccurate, due to the RH sensor being right there near the reservoir itself. So, I find it works to about 67% RH actual. Coupled with the 65% RH Beads as my absorbant/passive aspect of my system, the two work in conjunction to give me a perfect 65-66% RH generally.

If you're using one thing solely, use 65% beads. But, for that cabinet, due to air leakage and the amount of opening that it gets sometimes, I need an active system in there to refresh the RH promptly. If I solely used beads in the Cigar Oasis reservoir as well, even if I used a higher RH percentage level, the beads wouldn't be able to give off / perspire / evaporate enough water moisture to allow the Cigar Oasis unit to work as a fast recovery system. I find that those superabsorbent polymer crystals are simply more absorbent, have a better surface area for better evaporation, and have a better moisture release properties generally.

[Lunettesman]

I bring up this rather old thread to try to get infos on those who finally vaccum sealed their boxes.

I found the details and the knowledge exposed by the OP very interesting. 

So since the last post, like 5 years ago, how have your vaccum seal experience been?

[Lunettesman]

Bump again. Just so curious to know how the vacuum seal experience have been? Looking forward to vacuuming some boxes and would like to know if it's really something that worked for you guys. 

 

[CanuckSARTech]

Sorry, didn’t see the bump.

I’m away traveling for work, but its a great question you have regarding the vacuum sealing. To this point, I’ve only opened and smoked from one of those initial vacuum sealed boxes, a 10-box of PSP Monte 2’s. Can’t remember any more off hand info than that.

But in the recent years, I’ve found myself getting either a bit lazier, or less anal retentive. Lol. I’ve mainly just stored the boxes / bundles in the freezer ziplock bags that I put them in to do the freezing process, or just the straight boxes in.

So, I think it’s a good question you have. I will need to try to remember to follow up on this once at home, and to do some apples-to-apples comparisons.


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