Jeremy Festa Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Having re-read through this thread, I get the general feeling the new logo has already achieved what it sets out to do. Not only does it encompass all the relevant information in a clean and simple format, making it easily recognisable to the general public, it also markets and promotes the FoH ideals in one quick glance. Personally coming from the surf and skateboard industries, I believe all the truly iconic brands are the ones that pushed the envelope from the get go. Brands like Independent, with the iron cross logo, Santa Cruz with the Screaming Hand, and even Powell with its eventual skull and cross bones logos inspired generations to be more... “radical” ... for lack of a better word. Looking through old mags and watching old videos there are so many more brands who used religious iconography, as well as demonic imagery as the central focus for their logo design, simply for the sake of being blatantly controversial. And it works. The best part of all is the diverse conversation the new logo has advocated on this forum alone. That is, between the people that are actually involved in this niche society. Imagine the discussion it will encourage outside of this circle. Quite exciting. It makes me feel a little special to be a part of. And yeah, Munts’ mock-up is totes cleaner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlye Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 So you think I am a loon for making the comparison. Of course you do (rhetorically). You have been conditioned to think those who are concerned about rights and history are fanatics... The fanatics are the ones that have proven to be by history. I simply say look at the history of the fanatics and compare their actions to those of politicians today. There was a day when the worlds worst fanatics were not considered fanatics at all. Many were considered heroes of their time. When the hero turns fanatic it is too damn late. I say be vigilant and treat the infringement of any countryman's rights as a telltale sign. -Ray We'll do well to remember that there are fanatics on the other side too, and they'll do anything to stub this community out. The proposed fist logo is the perfect gift on a silver platter for them to gain more ground. Adolf was a heavy smoker. So was the older Lee of the little island I live on. Apparently so was JG of Oz, not sure about NR though. I may well need to make use of the OLH buy-back programme when the day comes where I can no longer make individual imports of these beloved sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewNR Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 ...well folks I love to stir the pot! It is even more fun when you are armed with a few facts. This is a NAZI anti-smoking propaganda poster! Now can you have fun with this or what? <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacapa Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hitler was one of the first prominent national leaders to advocate anti-tobacco measures and interfere with the personal lives of citizens. Please find out more about his anti-tobacco policies and compare it with your local measures. Thanks edlye I was aware of that info. Plus I really agree with you that racism was only a fraction of what the NAZI party stood for in terms of human rights. Your point is the same as mine: NAZI is not just racist just like Raised Fist is not just racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacapa Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 PigFish we will have to agree to disagree. This is because we have different premises - I do not proscribe to the win at all costs ethos. I find that winning at all costs and playing the game using the same tactics as your opponent leads to a slippery slope of morals. Gradually boundaries blur and you become the thing you hated/opposed in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlye Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Thanks edlye I was aware of that info. Plus I really agree with you that racism was only a fraction of what the NAZI party stood for in terms of human rights. Your point is the same as mine: NAZI is not just racist just like Raised Fist is not just racist I made no points or opinions on Nazism or racism in my posts, so there is really nothing to agree or disagree on. Let's leave it at that and enjoy our stogies while we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacapa Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Let's leave it at that and enjoy our stogies while we can. Sounds good to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hitler was one of the first prominent national leaders to advocate anti-tobacco measures and interfere with the personal lives of citizens. Please find out more about his anti-tobacco policies and compare it with your local measures. Reductio ad hitlerum. One Godwin point. Why am I not surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptrthgr8 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Reductio ad hitlerum. One Godwin point. Why am I not surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtmick1984 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 God love you, Ray! My thoughts exactly re the symbol though I agree with Rob et al. that we should communicate the theme of oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 PigFish we will have to agree to disagree. This is because we have different premises - I do not proscribe to the win at all costs ethos. I find that winning at all costs and playing the game using the same tactics as your opponent leads to a slippery slope of morals. Gradually boundaries blur and you become the thing you hated/opposed in the first place. Cheers, my friend. My points are not to alienate my friends here. My points are based around political differences, who initiates these types of policies, examining the correlations... AND WINNING! I am not discussing Hitler! I am discussing the mindset of the tyrant government. I am discussing the history of how this mindset of populism, control of language, ignorance of history has played out in societies... and how they have fallen because of it. While there are those who will hang on a detail, I am discussing a concept. The concept is a factual analysis of Statism, how it starts, who starts it, why they claim to start it, such as public health, defense of children etc., how it is made popular and why it fails. It is about power over people and control of them. It is as simple as that. The Statist link to mind, body, economy and its responsibility to the decay, and destruction of humanity exists. I say when politicians act like the Statists that proceeded them in history, they should be called out for it and crucified (not literally, but politically) for it!!! I am pissed off! I am the angry man that is portrayed by the left, but not for the reasons that I am portrayed as being angry. I am not angry at races of people, classes of people, sexual preferences of people, I am angry at ignorance and ignorant people. I know many people like me. We don't discuss classes of people, dividing people into little hate groups. This is the tool of my adversary. I try to gather people under a flag of commonality of the love of freedom. I am not even using the tools of my adversary against them. They conceal the facts of history and lie about every piece of legislation that they write. I tell the truth about their behavior. Telling the truth is not the tactic of my adversary. If telling the truth is winning at any cost, then yes, I am willing to do that. Live Free or Die! Cheers mate and remember, I have meant noting personal in my responses to you! -Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainQuintero Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewNR Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I want that propaganda one on a shirt aswell, just modified a little. Satire is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
str8dog Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I agree with this. *edit* I have done a quick mock up to demonstrate.... Ya, that's what I'm talking about! Have to say though, that this thread has become a lot like one might see on another forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicko Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I agree with this. *edit* I have done a quick mock up to demonstrate.... I agree this looks better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainQuintero Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Maybe we could have different colour options like we have with the forum view? eg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnaube Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 This logo works great on tshirts and caps as well. the color scheme will blend well on a white or black tshirt. i'd be first in line for the merch Me too! Looks absolutely great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David67 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Ray has brought up some extremely good points. We must at all times remember the mind set of our opponents. They are ideology driven zealots and will quite happily use our symbols against us if they see it to their advantage. Remember too that cigar smokers make up an extreem minority in Australia. Politicians see NO repeat N.O. NO votes in tobacco. What then should we do? We have to do something but it has to be smart, logical and about freedom of choice. "Cigars today, what we it be tomorrow...?" that I believe is the way we go about it in the context of freedoms in general of which cigar smoking is but one part. Yes at first I thought the logo was good but Ray has changed my mind on it. I truly now believe it would be used by the anti smoking zealots to present us as somthing we are not - that is to say "angry, belligerent men who wish to continue their filthy health damaging habit with no care for others" "and we will not stand by and let them. We care about the health of our kids and make no apology for that' That is the crap they will throw at us. Please Rob make a different logo that people like me would be happy using or at least have an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Look at the logos again with fresh eyes and tone down the political rhetoric. It is a graphic red fist, which can mean anything, holding a cigar, with the word underground in the text. The audience will be a relatively small group, not a million people in the lawn of the White House. As a nice Jewish Lady who was totally creeped out in Munich, I can tell you, it is no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Look at the logos again with fresh eyes ....... I don't disagree, but the logo (speaking specifically of the graphic) represents something. So, what does it represent? Rob has given his opinion / reasoning, other members have given theirs - should any be dismissed..... For me it represents a struggle. Is it a simple anti-government up yours. Does it represent true militancy (who recalls the vids with ski masks?) . Does it promote unity. Is it supposed to be fringe, or meant to be taken seriously long term. Is it simple marketing. Does it represent what you stand for and believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 100% agree and that is my point. The symbol can mean whatever the context it is designed for without being offensive at all. Take out the cigar and it could be for the angry tomato pickers of London, Ontario, Canada. And they can probably be very red with rage let me tell ya.:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckSARTech Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 ...Does it represent true militancy (who recalls the vids with ski masks?)... Do I ever! Man, I wish we could get those two blokes back to be our spokesmen again. Now THEY were some handsome fellas. Not like the lot we're stuck with now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Reminds me a bit about a scene in the movie Ronin. One character says to another, "You think too much." Guilty as charged, I say. If you "pan and scan" that pic Ross, the director will say that the meaning is totally different than his/her intended!!! -LOL Oh and the people that hated him for that pic... are the same ones that hate me and my cigars. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming! -the Pig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perla Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Hmmm probably I will open the can of crab. Just writing my first thinking when I see the logo(s) last night: A munch of peruvian pottery of women who loved to much (of course the cigar is to phallic) and a very typical cold war symbol. Before answering I really have to sleep a night over. Sure we all like to make a stand and show/express where we stand and of course we are all willing to fight for it. We should fight with humor (because fun police is not funny), twinkling (because they go in the cellar to laugh) and confident (because they aren't otherwise we wouldn't have a fun police). The cold war symbol make me shiver. At least their are only a few communist countries left. If I were a good fairy I would set all of them free. Just imagine a free Cuba. No more D..kheads. No more fear. People can breathe, say what they want, live how they like. They are able to travel, set up their own business. Yes it is necessary to find a symbol/logo! But (of course a but) it should be well selected and it shouldn't separate us from our outside world because we need them. Just my 2cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David67 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Look at the logos again with fresh eyes and tone down the political rhetoric. It is a graphic red fist, which can mean anything, holding a cigar, with the word underground in the text. The audience will be a relatively small group, not a million people in the lawn of the White House. As a nice Jewish Lady who was totally creeped out in Munich, I can tell you, it is no big deal. It depends, a large audience might see it if the anti-tobacco lobby use it to show how the "tobocconist" are tring to get a new foothold. I can remember 10 years ago or so a mens group formed regarding fathers rights with their kids, after divorce. They called themselves "The Blackshirts" needless to say feminist groups (and the media) tore them apart. So it does matter how we present ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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