Language Q for native english speakers

[oliverdst]

I will not compare Brazil with other countries for several reasons but what I can see here is that internet has exposed people in many ways. Most of them in a bad way. Poor grammar knowledge is just one of them.

[melies]

So let's see, It should be "Jack Have" instead of "Jack..." oops

Ok, sorry for that tasteless joke, but couldn't resist myself

[Fuzz]

Right on Mazola and others.

That said, I don't find this error nearly as annoying as the phenomenon of vocal/glottal fry or creaky voice. God help me when I hear this.

Wilkey

What about people who use an upward pitch inflection at the end of their sentence, so it sounds like a question?

[Lotusguy]

I find this sort of thing completely inexcusable. When people (and I'm specifically discussing native speakers who are supposedly "fluent" in the English language) use the phrase "should of" in writing instead of "should have" (or any other similar example) I think it's a complete bastardization of the language and makes them look/sound completely uneducated - particularly when such errors are made in a business setting. I see it all the time. One of the managers who reports to me always wants to misuse the "of" word in writing. When she does it for presentations I can get her to make the correction before it goes before our clients, but other times she sends emails out to the clients that include those sorts of errors. It's unprofessional and well beyond annoying. Were it not for HR I'd already have (of?) let her pursue other career opportunities.

I don't expect perfection from anyone... we're all human and we make mistakes from time to time. But consistently butchering the English language like this drives me batpoop crazy.

There... rant over.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

I'm with you - it's just butchering the English language.

Another one that drives me nuts is the word "ain't". Curls up my toenails.

[CaptainQuintero]

I think it's a credit to our second-language members that (At least personally.) I have never once noticed that someone doesn't speak English as a first language. In-fact the only time that I do notice some horrors, the person is always a first-language English speaker!

[canadianbeaver]

Let's separate the difference between spelling and grammar issues depending on whether you are learning English or you are making errors with your first language.

I totally SUCK at learning new languages. The OP has my total support and sympathy.

[ptrthgr8]

Totally agreed, Lisa. As stated in my original rant, everything I was discussing was aimed solely at those who should be fluent in their native language. I would never expect fluency from someone who's not fluent in a language.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[Orion21]

It is amusing to see how many errors people are making in this thread while correcting others.

We are on the interwebs, this is not a PHD thesis defence. As long as the meaning is understood, the rest hardly matters.

This is part of the reason language, and especially writing skills, have declined so much over the past few decades. As a teacher, at least I think you are one part time, I am sure you can confirm my observation. In my profession I communicate with clients and staff regularly via e-mail. I also assist my employees with their communications and the quality of their writing is HORRENDOUS a lot of the time. You want to know the worst part? They don't even know how horrible their writing is until I send it back with a dozen edits. It annoys me to no end, but I think it's just the way the world is going.

[Nino]

I find this sort of thing completely inexcusable. When people (and I'm specifically discussing native speakers who are supposedly "fluent" in the English language) use the phrase "should of" in writing instead of "should have" (or any other similar example) I think it's a complete bastardization of the language and makes them look/sound completely uneducated - particularly when such errors are made in a business setting. I see it all the time. One of the managers who reports to me always wants to misuse the "of" word in writing. When she does it for presentations I can get her to make the correction before it goes before our clients, but other times she sends emails out to the clients that include those sorts of errors. It's unprofessional and well beyond annoying. Were it not for HR I'd already have (of?) let her pursue other career opportunities.

I don't expect perfection from anyone... we're all human and we make mistakes from time to time. But consistently butchering the English language like this drives me batpoop crazy.

There... rant over.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

X 2 on the rant (from someone who never had any formal English studies ever).

And yes, it does matter how it is written/spelled as a simple courtesy/respect to others reading it - I mostly ignore badly written, sloppy, misspelled posts even if I understand their meaning.

[Ginseng]

What about people who use an upward pitch inflection at the end of their sentence, so it sounds like a question?

Kill me. Kill me now.

Wilkey

[Marker]

In conversation I will let my English adapt to the audience. This holds true written or verbal.

The word ain't is a good example. I will never use it in a business setting. With friends I use the word since we use it for emphasis of absurdity.

English is my second language. I don't have a first.

[Hollywood414]

I think sometimes people hear "should of" when someone is really trying to say "should've" which isn't a proper contraction anyway. It is basically slang.

[Ginseng]

In conversation I will let my English adapt to the audience. This holds true written or verbal.

The word ain't is a good example. I will never use it in a business setting. With friends I use the word since we use it for emphasis of absurdity.

English is my second language. I don't have a first.

Love it and I agree. Language is adaptive on multiple scales and contexts.

Wilkey

[canadianbeaver]

One more item I will add... I have taken a few courses in writing for business. This is a totally different kettle of fish all together.

[UpInSmoak]

The irony in this thread is incredible! I tease, I tease!

[mazolaman]

Agree with some people above, in that I have always been amazed, and thankful, at the high levels of English spoken throughout the world, even in the middle of nowhere, someone speeks English. Often demonstrated on boards like this.

I think these people have an advantage over we native English speakers, in that they also have at least one other language.

[westg]

Agreed... to a point. I think it depends largely upon the context. Yes, internet forums are hardly places where proper grammar/spelling are expected. I doubt too many folks are going to call out dangling participles on an internet forum. However, in a business context I think proper grammar and spelling are important. The "should of" instead of "should have" example is hardly a "simple" error, IMO. It's not the same thing as incorrect placement of a comma/apostrophe or incorrect usage of a semicolon. It's not the same thing as a simple spelling error - although in today's world spelling errors should be far less frequently encountered due to spell checkers. This misuse of the word "of" is goofy. I cringe any time I see it.

Maxismoke's original question regarding the "of/have" deal was simple: right or wrong? It's wrong. 100%, absolutely, fully, completely, without a doubt wrong. It's wrong on an internet forum just as it's wrong in a business setting. But I think it's fair to say it matters less in one setting than the other.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

Proper grammar,ha ha. Sounds like a cigar .Wait a minute that is PAPAS FRITAS Might just fire one up now

[poorman]

I think these people have an advantage over we native English speakers

I would contend the opposite.

In todays day and age, as the saying goes; English is the de facto international language, as I'm sure we would all agree.

Having worked in foreign (non english speaking) countries, and travelled extensively, the fact that someone "in the middle of nowhere" speaks English is a benefit to us native speakers. We can go practically anywhere on the planet and someone there will be able to speak English. We don't have to learn their language.

If as an "advantage" you are suggesting they have a leg up being able, almost forced, to speak two languages, I would agree.

[mazolaman]

I would contend the opposite.

In todays day and age, as the saying goes; English is the de facto international language, as I'm sure we would all agree.

In actual fact, the most spoken language worldwide is Spanish, English just happens to be the lingua franca.

Having worked in foreign (non english speaking) countries, and travelled extensively, the fact that someone "in the middle of nowhere" speaks English is a benefit to us native speakers. We can go practically anywhere on the planet and someone there will be able to speak English. We don't have to learn their language.

This was, fairly obviously, my point. I have also travelled extensively, and marvelled at the fact that even in the very North of Suomi, someone speaks English. Making life a little easier for we English spaekers.

If as an "advantage" you are suggesting they have a leg up being able, almost forced, to speak two languages, I would agree.

In an earlier response to this thread, I mentioned that there are negatives to the pervasive spread of the English Language, I recall talking to a Norwegian who explained that many young Norwegians are leaving out much of the punctuation in the Norwegian language, as it is not used on the net. It would be sad to see these languages that English is constructed from be assimilated.

I used the word "advantage" to suggest that much of Europe can speak at least two languages, their own and English, and often one or two more depending on their proximity to others. This is an obvious useable skill as compared to we native English speakers who have been known to only speak English...and when faced with a non English speaker, we just reapeat our English, but louder! I've seen it happen a lot.

[Fuzz]

In an earlier response to this thread, I mentioned that there are negatives to the pervasive spread of the English Language, I recall talking to a Norwegian who explained that many young Norwegians are leaving out much of the punctuation in the Norwegian language, as it is not used on the net. It would be sad to see these languages that English is constructed from be assimilated.

I used the word "advantage" to suggest that much of Europe can speak at least two languages, their own and English, and often one or two more depending on their proximity to others. This is an obvious useable skill as compared to we native English speakers who have been known to only speak English...and when faced with a non English speaker, we just reapeat our English, but louder! I've seen it happen a lot.

I would counter that Mandarin is spoken by more people than Spanish.

[mazolaman]

I would counter that Mandarin is spoken by more people than Spanish.

Yep, looks like you're correct, acording to Wiki...I stand corrected!

Language Percent of World Population Mandarin 12.44% Spanish 4.85% English 4.83% Arabic 3.25% Hindi 2.68% Bengali 2.66% Portuguese 2.62% Russian 2.12% Japanese 1.80% German 1.33% Javanese 1.25% Others 61.17%

[Fuzz]

As I like to say, "A billion Chinese can't be wrong!"

[mazolaman]

Yeah, don't know if it's the same with Australia, but over here people are sending their kids to Mandarin lessons, ready for the next leaders of the world!

[Fuzz]

Been happening here for years. I remember back in the 80's, most of my friend's parents sent them to Chinese school every Saturday morning.

[Nino]

"Never" and "ever" are redundant phrases. There is no need for both.

Built it on purpose to check if the mall is policed ...