Pulling leather notes and the individuality of taste


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In tasting cigars, I've found leather to be one of the flavors that has popped up most frequently throughout my smoking experience. Such a taste might differ for everyone.

"In a cigar, Leather tastes like what a new pair of leather shoes smell like"

I can agree with the above, and have also had it taste like various other leathers. Of course, this speaks to a larger phenomenon: that of tastes and of where they lie within the web of associations by which we recall when the sensory act of tasting triggers a memory, or numerous memories, in our brains. For that reason, everyone's capacity to taste and experience cigars (or anything, for that matter) is highly unique from one another. This adds color and diversity to the individual experience as well as the rituals of interacting and tasting with one another. In fact, I believe that as social animals, it is this premise which validates the aphorism that "variety is the spice of life". Solitary, epicurean enjoyment of cigars (beverages, cuisine, etc) can be an essential part of one's life. Yet who would argue that those people who draw from such withdrawn experiences to engage in discriminating discourse, often in the form of excited arguments and wide-eyed, wide-grinned agreements do not have the most fun? I would like to argue with that such person!

The physical attributes of our tongues and taste receptor cell to taste bud ratios vary negligibly, in fact they pale in comparison, to the palate lying dormant in our collection of most intimate memories. Genuinely, I believe it to be the chief divisive differentia of our consciousnesses. (I've always loved the term "web of association" I like to imagine sometimes the intricacy of our neural anatomy as a web which captures the constant input reel of our waking days.)

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Well, back to leather. I wonder if it's the cigars I've had that have been responsible for this: in my most recent review, I characterized and thereby categorized an "end-of-cigar" leather that had taken the stage in yet another stick. Above, I noted that this leather has been present in quite a few of my cigars. When phrasing the flavor that way, it occurred to me to question whether this observation was unique to me. I've never had a cigar in which leather was central to the profile, nor even present before the last portion of the second third. Is leather flavor most common at the end of a cigar? Could this be due to the increased acidity accumulated toward the latter end? If so, I would be inclined to believe that another leather that I have not yet encountered exists in other stages, flavor profiles, and is perhaps far richer, more complex, and naturally more enjoyable. (I've enjoyed my leather notes, but wished for them to be better placed so that I could pick them apart with greater ease).

Thanks for reading. Have a great weekend. looking.gifcigar.gif

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I get the wet leather flavor throughout entire cigars. Not every cigar, but it happens enough that it doesn't strike me as a rare event. It's one of my least favorite tastes . . . love the scent of leather, hate the taste of leather.

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Well, back to leather......... I've never had a cigar in which leather was central to the profile, nor even present before the last portion of the second third.

When I think of leather, Bolivar is the first thing that comes to mind - I find it a core element of much of the line. More specifically, I sense it as saddle leather or horse tack - the way a hard leather saddle smells or reins taste ( yes, I've held them in my mouth ).

But I agree that these things are often fairly subjective.

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I often get leather as well, mixed in with other flavors. In my mind, I sometimes associate it with mustiness, which is a combination of damp soil, some fermenting bitter fruit and a bit of dry vegetation... New leather shoes actually smell of the various chemicals used to prepare the hide for shoemaking, polishing compounds, glue and rubber. We have been trained to enjoy these fragrances for various reasons. I agree with the OP, enjoyment from the senses have to do with how our brain is connected and our personal experiences. the senses themselves are similar (there are exceptions) from one individual to the other.

Remember not liking something as a kid, to end up loving it as a grown-up, sometimes to the point of being passionate about it? Yep, range of experiences.

Now, for the hard-core factualists, our senses, including taste, do change throughout growth on the physiological level, just not to that extreme extent.

We drink red wine and scotch, smoke cigars and eat snail or octopus, not because that stuff is appealing on a first degree basis but because it challenges our brains, it plays with our senses, it brings global enjoyment and satisfaction.

Here is my take on it, please correct me where wrong or enlightenment lacking...

Many factors already mentioned throughout the forum in old/new posts will affect how different people taste different things out of the same cigar.

Cigar taste is affected by how you personally smoke it. It might burn hotter or cooler depending on how strong, how fast, how deeply and how often you draw on it. Ring gauge and tightness of the roll play major roles in this as well.

Remaining length of cigar. Smoke will be cooler when cigar is longer, then hotter when shorter because there is less tobacco lenght to help cool it. Think of the difference between 'nose warmer' and 'churchwarden' pipes. Adusting how you draw to accomodate it will play with the flavors further. Taste (actual and perceived) is in part dependant on tobacco combustion rate and temperature as well as on smoke temperature.

Your mental references and personal experiences. To you, leather might be something quite different than it is to me.

You might be especially sensitive to certain fragrances and tastes that are associated with leather.

Your storage conditions might optimize the display of specific characteristics within the cigar that you associate with leather.

There are so many factors which affect how cigars taste one can struggle wrapping his mind around it. I guess the reasons why I enjoy cigars so much is that I generally find enjoyment in a very wide variety of tastes and aromas and cigars tend to be quite a mixed bunch of flavors, even within the same box. I actually enjoy the fact that they are all over the place sometimes, it challenges my brain in ways that reliable flavors day in/day out wouldn't. As always, to each it's own. Cheers!

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I've never had a cigar in which leather was central to the profile, nor even present before the last portion of the second third. Is leather flavor most common at the end of a cigar?

Unfortunately they're hard to find now, but the SP Molinos, the SLR corona, the Punch corona offered (at least to my tastebuds) obvious notes of leather, almost from the start.

As for the "end of a cigar" you mention, I often get notes of raw-wool (mutton grease) more than leather, specially in the last puffs of young Montecristo and Upmann…

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Your mental references and personal experiences. To you, leather might be something quite different than it is to me.

You might be especially sensitive to certain fragrances and tastes that are associated with leather.

Your storage conditions might optimize the display of specific characteristics within the cigar that you associate with leather.

There are so many factors which affect how cigars taste one can struggle wrapping his mind around it.

I disagree wholeheartedly. The world of wine has a very rich flavors/aromas vocabulary which everyone concerned understands.

AFAIK, no one tells Parker that he's specially receptive to certain flavors, and that what is "oak" for him might be "leather" for someone else…

People with the same "gastronomic" and olfactory culture can agree on a number of references, that is why wheels of flavors are developed.

Otherwise, the reviews that everyone seem to love are completely meaningless.

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I disagree wholeheartedly. The world of wine has a very rich flavors/aromas vocabulary which everyone concerned understands.

AFAIK, no one tells Parker that he's specially receptive to certain flavors, and that what is "oak" for him might be "leather" for someone else…

People with the same "gastronomic" and olfactory culture can agree on a number of references, that is why wheels of flavors are developed.

Otherwise, the reviews that everyone seem to love are completely meaningless.

You have a point. However, professional tasters take years to train their palates in order to attain that level. A wine afficionado who has tasted wine for 25 years will have a better idea of what tastes like what than, let's say, the great average of the rest of the worldwide population.

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Leather tanning was done with tannic acid. Hence the name 'tanning'

Some people extol leather taste yet despise a tannic taste. What am I missing? Aren't these two things related?

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Interesting read. For some reason it reminded me of the paper by Thomas Nagel "What is it like to be a Bat." Taste, on a mental level really is a subjective thing and I suspect that much of our simliar flavour experiences are in fact what the OP calls

"the palate lying dormant in our collection of most intimate memories." in which intimate memories is a subject of our interactions with the environment around us using our senses.

IMO a convergence of agreement in what a cigar flavour profile exhibits exists amongst those who have had the chance to frequently experience leather, oak, cedar etc through their 5 senses. I strongly think that to "pull" a specific note from a cigar, or even to recognize it, one has to have experienced it (the reference to that note) with their senses in some way, shape, or form. The reason why many of us detect flavours that others detect is because we train ourselves by combining personal, subjective experiences/memories together with common observations from those well exposed to these references. The causal aspects to the notes we agree upon (the blend used, aging, storage conditions) come second to the more powerful subjective experiences that lead us to characterize uber specific hints of jaffa (which I have no clue what that taste like lol so i'll never know when i get that note untl I experience it) and others like ginger spice etc. I for one have had stronger 'leather' experiences with RG Perlas, and much less with the different vitolas in Bolivar marca that i have smoked.

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Leather tanning was done with tannic acid. Hence the name 'tanning'

Some people extol leather taste yet despise a tannic taste. What am I missing? Aren't these two things related?

Surely if the sense of tannin (leather, wood, etc) is overly acidic or astringent, it can be quite unpleasant. When it is an integrated and balanced component, it can add some depth / complexity.

A wine afficionado who has tasted wine for 25 years will have a better idea of what tastes like what than, let's say, the great average of the rest of the worldwide population.

Perhaps it is more about the ability to describe what we taste rather than our ability to taste it to begin with.

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When I think of leather, Bolivar is the first thing that comes to mind - I find it a core element of much of the line. More specifically, I sense it as saddle leather or horse tack - the way a hard leather saddle smells or reins taste ( yes, I've held them in my mouth ).

But I agree that these things are often fairly subjective.

Looks like a fellow equestrian here?! Maybe that's why Bolivar is one of my absolute favorites, probably more smell than taste for me, love the smell of a saddle shop!

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Some people extol leather taste yet despise a tannic taste. What am I missing? Aren't these two things related?

There is a HUGE difference between the leather/saddlery flavor of an vintage SP Molinos and the dark, strong, thick tannic flavors you get from the last part of a Monte 2 or a RA 898... Tannins are very agressive flavors.

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Leather tanning was done with tannic acid. Hence the name 'tanning'

Some people extol leather taste yet despise a tannic taste. What am I missing? Aren't these two things related?

There is a HUGE difference between the leather/saddlery flavor of an vintage SP Molinos and the dark, strong, thick tannic flavors you get from the last part of a Monte 2 or a RA 898... Tannins are very agressive flavors.

I agree, I associate leather aroma/taste with tannins. However, the tannic aspect is only a small portion of the profile. With tannins, as with many things cigar or wine related, anything out of balance can ruin the experience pretty quick. I enjoy the flavor and aroma of tannins but not if they overpower the overall taste and aroma.

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