Determining Aromas...something to try on the weekend

[El Presidente]

I was at the excellent AMICIGAR vintage tasting in Maiori where AJ Patel graciously provided an 89 cabinet of Punch Churchills (not that we knew what it was at the time).

I was sitting opposite Nicola Pileggi who is a tasting marvel and I watched him take a draw and slowly blow smoke into his wine glass. He then let it settle and gently,repeatedly, take in the aromas of the smoke from the extremities of the glass (three to four inches away from the rim and swirling it slowly in between). Much like judging the aromas of wine.

While I have seen it done before he took me through the intricacies, letting the smoke slowly tickle the nose, never taking a deep whiff.

The delineation of the aromas was remarkable. Cedar, sweet spices. Each standing out like a beacon.

Nicola nailed the blind tasting.

Give it a try over the weekend

[Rye]

I do this into a Glencairn on occasion.

[maxcjs0101]

Wow, definitely something new to me.

[canucks6024]

Wow. I will be doing this soon. That looks very neat.

[jholen]

Very intriguing! Definitely going to try this on my next smoke, thanks for sharing.

Nicola nailed the blind tasting.

Year and all? Impressive!

[joeboxer]

I have never seen that before but it seems like an excellent idea! Will definitely be trying it this weekend.

[CUBANO]

First time I hear of this , very interesting. Will have to try it.

[potpest]

Tried this this afternoon with a boli corona gigantes. Worked a treat, it's like a retrohale but with no harshness through the nose. Flavours are much clearer and easier to identify

[PapaDisco]

Very cool and sign me up as well . . . but . . . what good is smoking a cigar if it can't actually be tasted as one smokes it? Is this, unbeknownst to us, actually demonstrating that cigars should be blended much differently? Or is it just a demonstration on the shortcomings of the tongue compared to the nose when it comes to scents/flavors?

IMHO, cigars are the finest incense there is, and if they wouldn't go out on their own I'd gladly leave one gently smoldering in the ash tray next to my desk all day long!

[Colt45]

. . . but . . . what good is smoking a cigar if it can't actually be tasted as one smokes it? Is this, unbeknownst to us, actually demonstrating that cigars should be blended much differently? Or is it just a demonstration on the shortcomings of the tongue compared to the nose when it comes to scents/flavors?

It's funny, I sometimes think that cigar smoke is tasted a little differently than, let's say, food. I rarely smell a cigar I'm smoking distinctly, but I can smell a cigar someone else is smoking a mile away - even while driving.

Many members feel they get the most out of a cigar by exhaling through the nose. I do it, but I really don't get extra benefit - I tend to smell things (flowers, etc) when inhaling. Perhaps it's just my own make - up, or perhaps the benefits of retrohaling really come into play with aftertaste.

I don't think it's a matter of blending - I do think tasting involves both the palate and olfactory system. Interesting thoughts. I'm looking forward to giving this a tray ASAP.

[JohnS]

I do this into a Glencairn on occasion.

I've got to do this into a Glencairn on the next occasion!

[Stanislaw]

That is very cool.... The aromas are one of my favorite parts of smoking Cuban cigars but they do not happen as often when smoking regularly, more like a passing bonus....

Of course, my wife may need ocular surgery after the amount of eye rolling that will take place when she spies me doing this....

[PapaDisco]

Working on this one now . . . it's quite a trick to get the smoke to settle heavily into the glass . . . . . . practice, practice . . .

[Rye]

Working on this one now . . . it's quite a trick to get the smoke to settle heavily into the glass . . . . . . practice, practice . . .

Try chilling your glass for a few minutes. Works like a charm

[earthson]

Try chilling your glass for a few minutes. Works like a charm

Yes! We used to do something similar with frozen beer mugs and some other combustible.

[Geauxj]

Very interesting. I have never heard of this, but I can not wait to see if I can put this knowledge to good use.

[Mr. Japan]

Italians do it better HAHaHAHa

Sorry I had to say it ! :-)

In Italy there has been since many years ( I would say 8..maybe 10 ) the CATADORS COURSES that is what actually Habanos has just started few years ago with the Habanos Master.

I have seen the book of habano's Master and it is a fifth of what we have been studying when we did the Catador Courses that was started in Italy by the great Angelo Bigi and his CCA Association.

It has been so serious that when Marko Bilic came up with the story of a game with cigars I immediately loved it so we could set the two side of the cigar smoking...a game and a blind tasting.

Looking for you next time to join in, in the meantime enjoy the video

https://youtu.be/eMihlrDLddI

[nicascc]

Dear El Presidente i'm honored of your words, Sorry for My bad english. i was luky to recognize the cigar because i smoke many Punch SLB50 and we in Alto Salento Cigar Club organize from 2005 cata with vintage Cigars 1952/1975/1989/1998 and so on. With Gino and Ajay , Alex and Magali, we of ASCC partecipate to the marvellous taste of J.Lopez Regalia perfetta 1931. But to come back to the topic the smoke in the glass.

It's a way to controll what we smell with our nouse i learn in La Habana in the Partagas Factory in 2004 when after a cata with the friends of CCA Angelo Bigi too, we think that the cigars we smoked were not Bolivar robusto. The chief of the panel take one of ours Cigars with Bolivar anilla and puff in the glass empty after let the smoke go out and start to smell, he repeat two or tree time and he said that our impression was correct. The Cigars were the work of torcedores school !

Of course we take this lesson and during the Catadores Course, start in 2004 with 32 editions in Italy and one in Svizzerland, i partecipate with My lesson to 30 included some esamination, one of these Gino take his title and remain in all 32 editions the best valute we have had in CCA.

I use to puff smoke in the glass and i smell even the glass empty after the smoke flow out, it a way to controll what we taste smoking.

Thank's

Nicola

[CanuckSARTech]

Very very cool.

[Habana Mike]

Dear El Presidente i'm honored of your words, Sorry for My bad english. i was luky to recognize the cigar because i smoke many Punch SLB50 and we in Alto Salento Cigar Club organize from 2005 cata with vintage Cigars 1952/1975/1989/1998 and so on. With Gino and Ajay , Alex and Magali, we of ASCC partecipate to the marvellous taste of J.Lopez Regalia perfetta 1931. But to come back to the topic the smoke in the glass.

It's a way to controll what we smell with our nouse i learn in La Habana in the Partagas Factory in 2004 when after a cata with the friends of CCA Angelo Bigi too, we think that the cigars we smoked were not Bolivar robusto. The chief of the panel take one of ours Cigars with Bolivar anilla and puff in the glass empty after let the smoke go out and start to smell, he repeat two or tree time and he said that our impression was correct. The Cigars were the work of torcedores school !

Of course we take this lesson and during the Catadores Course, start in 2004 with 32 editions in Italy and one in Svizzerland, i partecipate with My lesson to 30 included some esamination, one of these Gino take his title and remain in all 32 editions the best valute we have had in CCA.

I use to puff smoke in the glass and i smell even the glass empty after the smoke flow out, it a way to controll what we taste smoking.

Thank's

Nicola

Hello Signore Pileggi and welcome to FOH!

Thank you for your elucidation on this subject.

I mentioned this technique to Franca Camparetto prior to her heading to Matelica for the Friends of Partagas Italy this week and she informed me that this technique has been is use for some time with the Catadores program.

I gave it a go this weekend and found it absolutely adds an extra dimension to the overall tasting experience.

If only we had a more formal approach and program to tasting cigars in the US, I'd certainly sign up for that....as I understand it Catadors are to cigars are what Sommeliers are to wine.

[nicascc]

Caro Amico, My lessons in 30 editions of Catadores program of CCA that I Made always i speacks about, of course is not included in the lesson of cata because is an empiric tecnique of II level. I don't know with Who she speacks But í can assure you what i do. I don't know F.Comparetto i know some people (that she introduced in her avventure "Cigar Sense") that recieved from me the lesson in Corso Catadores in Turin or Alban Cordier but i think that is very difficult to register all the aromas,

is less that impossible.I invite all to smoke many and many Cigars that's all

Saluti

[Habana Mike]

Ah, perhaps I misunderstood. Possible she meant many Catadors she knows use this technique.

[CigarSense]

Hello everyone, ... I am new here and it's so good to see the quality of information in this forum!

Mike, your question on the catadores classes in the US is very interesting, some of the content is a bit of an intersection with the Tobacconist University program, but the catadores classes include tasting exercises, as a matter of fact a full tasting sheet is part of the exam too. It might have changed in the meantime but, when I prepared for my catador diploma, tasting was not blind at the exam, but there were blind tasting exercises throughout the course.

Back to your question, it would be interesting to see if, besides you Mike, there are more people interested. I could talk with Mr Dussin, responsible for the catadores program at CCA (Italian Cigar Club Association). I met him briefly yesterday at dinner in Matelica (X Encuentro Amigos de Partagas en Italia), just missed your question on time to discuss it there.

Nicola, I followed your lesson during the 2008-2009 program, I was the only woman there...but maybe a bit hidden as I am not very big. I regret you could not come to Matelica, you still owe me an "educative" smoke, you promised me a few months ago. Don't forget this last one please

Franca Comparetto

[CanuckSARTech]

Hello everyone, ... I am new here and it's so good to see the quality of information in this forum!

Mike, your question on the catadores classes in the US is very interesting, some of the content is a bit of an intersection with the Tobacconist University program, but the catadores classes include tasting exercises, as a matter of fact a full tasting sheet is part of the exam too. It might have changed in the meantime but, when I prepared for my catador diploma, tasting was not blind at the exam, but there were blind tasting exercises throughout the course.

Back to your question, it would be interesting to see if, besides you Mike, there are more people interested. I could talk with Mr Dussin, responsible for the catadores program at CCA (Italian Cigar Club Association). I met him briefly yesterday at dinner in Matelica (X Encuentro Amigos de Partagas en Italia), just missed your question on time to discuss it there.

Nicola, I followed your lesson during the 2008-2009 program, I was the only woman there...but maybe a bit hidden as I am not very big. I regret you could not come to Matelica, you still owe me an "educative" smoke, you promised me a few months ago. Don't forget this last one please

Franca Comparetto

Thanks for sharing that, Franca.

Not to disparage the above, but I find some of these "certification" things are a bit helter skelter.

I have fair respect for the Italian "catadores" program. The Habanos S.A.'s "Habanos sommelier" is a bit more tripe, methinks. The U.S. / General Cigar (??) / Tobacconist University one seems a bit too cosy with the NC brands for my taste.

I think it's a bit presumptuous for some random institution / business to create a qualification to certify people on something as random, unique, and abstract as cigar flavours and tasting. I know my palate, I find I taste a fair representation of things, have been told I have a fairly decent palate, and have gotten some great feedback at tastings (blind and not-blind). Been smoking since the late 90's, and know a fair bit around habanos, I'd like to think. I don't need some new course / school / business to "accredit" me for what I already know / don't know, or taste / don't taste.

If myself, or Gino, or Rob, or Ken, or a PLETHORA of others on here didn't have one of those qualifications, and some random dude came along, who had been working part-time in a cigar shop for a year or two, and he had a Habanos Sommelier certification...."buyer beware" for whomever takes a certificate as a guarantee of a "qualified" opinion.

All that said, I would still love to have the opportunity to take one of the higher respected ones someday, just to really self-grade more than anything, but it's definitely not high on my to-do list. Doesn't make my word (or that of any others) worth any more or less, versus long-term experience and just a decent enough palate to begin with.

[nicascc]

Thanks for sharing that, Franca.

Not to disparage the above, but I find some of these "certification" things are a bit helter skelter.

I have fair respect for the Italian "catadores" program. The Habanos S.A.'s "Habanos sommelier" is a bit more tripe, methinks. The U.S. / General Cigar (??) / Tobacconist University one seems a bit too cosy with the NC brands for my taste.

I think it's a bit presumptuous for some random institution / business to create a qualification to certify people on something as random, unique, and abstract as cigar flavours and tasting. I know my palate, I find I taste a fair representation of things, have been told I have a fairly decent palate, and have gotten some great feedback at tastings (blind and not-blind). Been smoking since the late 90's, and know a fair bit around habanos, I'd like to think. I don't need some new course / school / business to "accredit" me for what I already know / don't know, or taste / don't taste.

If myself, or Gino, or Rob, or Ken, or a PLETHORA of others on here didn't have one of those qualifications, and some random dude came along, who had been working part-time in a cigar shop for a year or two, and he had a Habanos Sommelier certification...."buyer beware" for whomever takes a certificate as a guarantee of a "qualified" opinion.

All that said, I would still love to have the opportunity to take one of the higher respected ones someday, just to really self-grade more than anything, but it's definitely not high on my to-do list. Doesn't make my word (or that of any others) worth any more or less, versus long-term experience and just a decent enough palate to begin with.

Franca, Giuseppe Dussin arrive to the responsability of CCA only tree years ago, but never mind i'll do what i promise you.

For the last friend from Canada: My last words i write is smoke, and smoke and smoke, but i'd like to precise that:

First of all Gino made the course CCA in 2007 and I can assure you he learn many thinks, he can say you if it was good for his knowledge the Catadores course of CCA.

Second that CCA course is a way to start to have a scientific way to smoke, taste, know History and so on. Every people start to think about the act to smoke cigar, became couriosus and study about Cigars.

Without curiosity and knowledge we can do only practise exrcise, often many person say " the cigar taste of cigar". Ok is their opinion not mine.

We start in the History to eat meat no cooked and now we eat carpaccio but we Made many steps of cooking education to come back to eat no cooked dishes: if we are able to do this we can learn that when you have a very good food if you cook this you must Be carefull to use because you can only trasform a good food in bad dish.

This lesson is avaliable even for cigar only the man can trasform a good Tobacco in a good cigar but when you buy a cigar only you can trasform a good cigar in a bad cigar when you smoke: we can change the fruibility of this if you stock the cigar in a bad way, if you cut wrong. If we smoke with 63 or 70% URL we change the way to smoke, if you puff fast you change the taste of smoke.

No one presume anythink but i can assure you that i smoke since 84' and i learn every day during catas from "the tabula rasa tester" ( new smokers) that have the possibility to recognize all aromas and flavours. To do this we need education and there is no one that start to make a course, only in CCA corse and Franca and her friends in Cigar Sense experience.

of course the target is to speack all the same language, it is difficolt to transfer and explane the sensorial experience. if you are not able to speack about and if you are no sure that the others undestand you

CCA is an association that in 16 years make many activities and there is a reason if Angelo Bigi was in the tree finalist of Hombre Habano as CCA President and the new Catadores Course.

i think that the experience to smoke is necessary but even the knowledge to undestand what we do smoking in chemical reactions, in fisic reactions let us to have the possibility to enjoy better the time we smoke a cigar not to say I' more able than you, at least smoke a good cigar is a way to stay with your self and your companion depend only from you.