Frustration

[PigFish]

This question has too many facets to answer them all.

One can guess that a knot it a cigar represents a blockage but that is the best that they can do! With many people, vendors included so concerned about stiff draws, often one can end up with wind tunnels and loosely packed cigars as an alternative. That is a worse choice.

With sorting processes being what they are, I often wonder why 'whole' boxes of cigars can be plugged? I have never experienced this, but many claim they have. Furthermore, I have sat down with friends and seen them refuse to work a cigar that I could draw from and not toss. The range of opinions are all over the spectrum and there is no quatitative datum of what a stiff draw is. With people assessing 'stiff draw' as 'plugged' you have a communication breakdown that does help the problem either.

Lastly is the the issue that separates my anecdotal experience form others. Am I just lucky? I have smoke thousands of cigars that are from the questionable periods, and had nary the problem that caused the reputation... I love sub-42 ring cigars! So what is the problem? My rather egotistical answer is that I know how to store a cigar and quite possibly many don't! I have witnessed many and seen even more claim storage conditions that I know to be too wet as perfect. Of course I am not the judge of their cigars, however I can judge their knowledge, experience, their declarations and then their problems from their own assertions... In my mind, in general, people don't store Cuban cigars very well. This leads to much of the problems with how they smoke and how they taste... This is just my humble opinion!

So I see a combination of problems that lead to a reputation. Tabacuba could care less about quality. I believe this is a fact! There are certainly quality materials and skilled rollers, but the 'company' does not give a shit about the smoking public!!! Again, my opinion!

Smokers are more concerned about the existence of myth than the smoking experience. They fuss and fart around, dry box, vacuum seal etcetera, etcetera and will do anything other than spend what their collection deserves on adequate storage for their environment. They will listen to others before trusting their own tastes and they end up making excuses, blaming sick periods, aging, the ring gauge, etcetera for the mistakes that could be front end errors from Tabacuba, or back end errors, their own neglect.

I have dealt with so many people over the years seeking advice, that I have come to the conclusion that most of this problem is due to poor storage. Storage does not need to be complex or expensive, just dryer than most people want to believe. Again, my humble opinion!

I am buying cigars again this year. I don't think that I will buy 1 cigar that will be over 42 ring!

So for my last over-the-top insult of the day, it is a shame that the cigar industry is being pushed by people (customers and executives alike) who don't know a good cigar from a bad one and the folks at Tabacuba cannot lead the industry, educate the industry and grow the industry. They are more concerned with boxing and printing...

I will take a reasonably priced cigar with an acceptable production quality loss rate over a fat, overpriced, undefiled, nicely packaged, double-banded piece of dog crap any day of the week... I'll smoke the '99's. Not a problem!

-Piggy

[cigaraholic]

I don't have construction concerns about skinnies, I have construction concerns about every cigar their rolling in Cuba today.

We had the tent pole years 99-01 and now we seem to be in the wind tunnel period. I don't know if the draw machines have made the rollers a little light fingered with the tobacco, don't know what the penalty is for rolling a failure ?

Cuban cigar construction is embarrassing!

 

 

[Lotusguy]

Can't vote on Tapatalk but I am MUCH more concerned about all the wind tunnels coming out of Cuba lately

[Fuzz]

On 02/06/2016 at 9:24 AM, El Presidente said:

A watched a mate of mine last night try to get a decent draw out of a discontinued skinny (Partagas Connie 2 from the look albeit I didn't ask). 

 

Hope the '99 Party SdC#3 I gave you on Wed night (damn you Leicester City! ) isn't tight. I tried to pick the loosest filled cigar in the box!

[El Presidente]

14 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Hope the '99 Party SdC#3 I gave you on Wed night (damn you Leicester City! ) isn't tight. I tried to pick the loosest filled cigar in the box!

Saving it for Sunday afternoon's next week preparations 

[Habana Mike]

I have a mastercase of plugged cigars across all years, vitolas and marcas from the late 90's until today sitting in my 'I hope these will draw one day' humidor.

Glad to send these 10 for 1 to whoever is game to see......

[ChefBoyRG54]

I have a mastercase of plugged cigars across all years, vitolas and marcas from the late 90's until today sitting in my 'I hope these will draw one day' humidor.

Glad to send these 10 for 1 to whoever is game to see......

I got a good draw tool;)

[gweilgi]

Voted yes because I just had too many bad experiences over the years.

 

That said, both RA and Partagas 898 are in my regular rotation.  Wouldn't want to live without them, even though I've been known to clip a whole box to test the draw when tucking a few into my traveldor...

 

 

[PigFish]

2 hours ago, Habana Mike said:

I have a mastercase of plugged cigars across all years, vitolas and marcas from the late 90's until today sitting in my 'I hope these will draw one day' humidor.

Glad to send these 10 for 1 to whoever is game to see......

... so you have cut these and drawn on them Mike? Are we talking total plugs, stiff draws, both? Obviously cigars with knots will never be fixed!

At 10 to one, I might like to see if I can loosen them (some of them at least) up by drying them out. PM me with some of what you are willing to part with and maybe we can talk... 

Cheers! -Ray

[dageshi]

It certainly gives me pause for thought. I was in London recently, at jj fox and Davidoff, bought a H Upman Monarch from one and an Upman Sir Winston from the other, both cigars I had wanted to try. The monarch was very tight but just about smokable, the Winston was completely plugged

I prefer long and skinnies, I'm prepared to pay a premium for them but having them be plugged or very tight draws... is just a dealbreaker and incredibly frustrating.

 

[garbandz]

seems to me the skinnies are more likely to have plugs.

I keep a draw tool at hand and have employed it often,generally it saves the cigar.

smoking a Hoyo palma now,it took a moment to open it up,and it is fine.

probably I pitch one in ten if the draw tool fails..........

[RijkdeGooier]

On 2 juni 2016 at 5:25 PM, JohnnyC said:

I voted No for the simple reason that I have not had a bad skinny yet. My first skinny was a Cohiba Siglo V Tubo  2009. It got me hooked on skinnies. One of the best cigars i have ever had. I wish I had more but Cohiba's have all but disappeared at the moment.

Please don't take this personal but I have always thought skinnies to be RG 40 or under. 

[Fugu]

No - not more than with other formats.

Apart from storage cond., maturing and the points Piggy adressed, I'd like to add to that the importance of the particular smoking technique. Smoked too quickly, a skinny-draw closes down and can feel quite restricted. Increasing your 'suction efforts' in response to that, as would appear logical, you will only be greeted with an even more restricted draw, hot burning and a bad tasting cigar. Smoked at slow pace and the draw of that same cigar will open up nicely (leaving true construction defects aside). That's the art of smoking a fine skinny (and I fear, the prime reason for their declining popularity and their continual discontinuation). Always better to risk letting it go out once or twice during a smoke than to burn the skinny hot and acrid.

On a general note: Most people seem not to be very well versed in the concept of the long and skinnies (into which group we - strictly - may or may not include the Cervantes and Dalias, but they are slender cigars being prone to those same characteristic "problems" - to address RijkdeGooier's remark). These formats are all about evolution and transformation. Such cigars are always characterized by a more snug draw "by nature". This must be so, because the draw resistance is a product of diameter and length. Therefore, a slender cigar needs to start off with a bit stiffer draw, otherwise it would be too loosely rolled and would cause burn issues. Usually, these formats open up pleasently during the course of the smoke.

But granted, skinnies are more prone to variability in construction as they are more difficult to roll, since the slender format is less forgiving with regard to correct filling and proper bunching. As a skinny-lover you have to accept that.

That said, I only very rarely come across a truly plugged or heavily restricted cigar (and owning quite a few Lonsdales from the special years). Not non-existent, but certainly much less frequent as it often is claimed. But it surely is also a matter of personal preference rather than the fault of the cigar. If you love an easy draw - just don't smoke skinnies.

[Habana Mike]

On 6/3/2016 at 2:17 AM, PigFish said:

... so you have cut these and drawn on them Mike? Are we talking total plugs, stiff draws, both? Obviously cigars with knots will never be fixed!

At 10 to one, I might like to see if I can loosen them (some of them at least) up by drying them out. PM me with some of what you are willing to part with and maybe we can talk... 

Cheers! -Ray

Yes, I clip and draw. If there's little to no airflow I put them in a 58% desktop for weeks, months, sometimes years to see if they open up.

Some number do but many are still bricks. I'd be glad to dig through and send you a representative sampler gratis, strictly in the interest of science!

[PigFish]

Mike if you tell me that they are plugged, they are plugged and there is not much sense in you going though the trouble and expense for me to 'verify...' There is no difference between my dry air, and yours!!! -LOL

The comment I made in my first post, the storage comment was not meant to pigeon-hole (include) the membership here as a whole. However, with no offense meant to those who contact me for tutelage, from my experience, there are a lot of people who don't know how to store Cuban cigars. That is why I talk about it, but that is another story...

On the other hand I know a few people, you probably know them as well, that they consider a cigar plugged when I would not... "Plugged means plugged to me." I have known smokers that a stiff draw means plugged. Plugged to some is a generic term, like Kleenex!

It does amaze me that you have so many... That is a bit of an enigma to me.

My cigars are pretty 'open' from my perspective. My arteries, that is a different story!!! -Ray

[Habana Mike]

I'm thinking the rollers have it out for me for some reason, not sure why!

[luv2fly]

I have had very few plugged cigars.  Plugged to me is little to no airflow.  I have had "tight" ones that took some work but smoked well in the end.

As to "wind tunnels" I have had more than I would like and the majority are from a cab of Party Shorts.

[Smallclub]

On 06/03/2016 at 6:57 AM, gweilgi said:

That said, both RA and Partagas 898 are in my regular rotation.

 

RA 898, Partagas 898 and Siglo V (dalias with a rg of 43) are not skinnies. Skinnies are cigars below 39 rg.

[avaldes]

While I agree with you about skinny or not....on the subject of tight or plugged cigars, those three in particular seem to get a higher percentage than others. I have had more than one plugged box of each and it severely pisses me off thinking about it! Same is true with actual "skinnies" like the pair of boxes of 2001 CoLa's and the 50 cab of Fundadores that were 50% tight-tight-tight!

Though I still buy them because the reward when on is very satisfying:)

[oliverdst]

They werent skinnies when biggest rg was 50. Now at 60's they are really 'thin" ?

[LGC]

I'm thinking the rollers have it out for me for some reason, not sure why!

Are these mostly from boxes bought from vendors, or from individuals?

[Habana Mike]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Are these mostly from boxes bought from vendors, or from individuals?

Majority from vendors, mostly stock I've had for some time...

[LGC]

The worst boxes I've had were 2000 Partagas Presidentes (had perfect wrappers, but could only smoke a handful, and had a friend rewrap them as robustos) and 1999 Monte Esp from the rock (I specifically requested only 98's and no 99's... ended up butchering just about the entire box with a 3/16" drill bit in attempt make some "Smokable"