Colin Kaepernick 49ers QB Bad Move

[StumpyJoe]

50 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

good post.

Thanks Ken, I appreciate the compliment.

[SCgarman]

2 hours ago, jwr0201 said:

This is NOT a US politics thread.  Also, the description of this sub-forum says talk about what you like.  There have been other sports a$$hole related threads.  Who are you to tell the mods to remove this thread anyway?  If you don't like it, don't read it and don't participate.

You are obviously dealing with some anger management issues. Best to change your tone, you are not talking to some teenager pal.

[forgop]

First, let me say that I do not agree with his actions.  That said, I appreciate and respect the fact that we have the right to free speech and peaceful protest.  I don't always agree with people's ideas and actions but I know that it is their right. As long as it is not violent and does not hurt anyone, so be it.   If I don't agree with it, I dismiss it and move on with my life.  I am sure there are many who do not agree with me and that is their right.  I hold no ill will towards them or this guy.  It is his issue, not mine.

If he does not want to stand for the anthem or flag, so be it.  I will not let him or anyone occupy space in my head and heart.  That is my 2 minutes of considering this matter and I am off to enjoy great friends, cigars, and life.

Have a great day everybody!

 


Free speech is a two-way street.

He has every right to express his free speech on his own time. The league and team has every right to silence it at any point they so choose.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[PapaDisco]

I say we keep going until someone calls someone else a Naazi . . .  

[hjmclain22]

I appreciate your post and the five minute video. But it's only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination.  If you want to support making firefighters and police millionaires that's your prerogative.  Politicians who attempt to curb the spending on such pensions are met with severe backlash and several courts have recently found their efforts to do so are illegal.  

Also, Prager University is a bootleg university of Phoenix, might as well be trump university...

Re the socks, I think Kap did in fact limit his criticism to the bad cops.  

Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause.  The issue is real and needs to be addressed.  Kudos to Kap for voicing his POV.

 

 

 

[StumpyJoe]

16 minutes ago, hjmclain22 said:

I appreciate your post and the five minute video. But it's only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination.  If you want to support making firefighters and police millionaires that's your prerogative.  Politicians who attempt to curb the spending on such pensions are met with severe backlash and several courts have recently found their efforts to do so are illegal.  

Also, Prager University is a bootleg university of Phoenix, might as well be trump university...

Re the socks, I think Kap did in fact limit his criticism to the bad cops.  

Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause.  The issue is real and needs to be addressed.  Kudos to Kap for voicing his POV.

 

 

 

You say that you appreciate my post and the five minute video, but then immediately state that it is "only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination."  Did you watch the video with an open mind?  It doesn't appear so.  

 

Statistically police officers have a greater chance to die by the hands of a black assailant than killing a black assailant.  Statistically young black men are killed in far greater numbers by young black men than police.  These are not opinions or anecdotes.  

 

Making police the enemy does not fix the problem.  If you want less black deaths identify the greatest risk to black lives.  I for one would like to see less deaths of young black men...the largest cause...other young black men.  Why is the biggest danger to young black men other black men?!?!?  I have no idea.  Let's find out why and address this as it would afford the most black lives saved.  

 

You denegrate Prager University as "a bootleg university of Phoenix, might as well be trump university..."  This is patently false.  It is an attempt to impeach the witness by falsifying its credentials.  Prager University has no connection to either Phoenix or Trump.  Your allusion is callous.  I can understand your disagreement, but that is not a license to sully or slander an organization you disagree with.

 

"If you want to support making firefighters and police millionaires that's your prerogative."  I have yet to meet a single millionaire policeman or firefighter.  Politicians are another matter.  "We did find a later article from September 2015 in Fortune that estimated Hillary Clinton's net worth at about $30 million. In October 2015, Forbes wrote, "After layering years of disclosures on top of annual tax returns, Forbes estimates their combined net worth at $45 million."Aug 7, 2016"

"Politicians who attempt to curb the spending on such pensions are met with severe backlash and several courts have recently found their efforts to do so are illegal. "  The reason for this is the courts recognize that politicians entered into a contract with emergency services which both parties agreed to.  When the politicians decide they changed they're mind the courts remind the politicians that they entered into a binding contract.  If I have a contractor put a new roof on my house for an agreed $x dollars and upon completion of the work I tell them that I will pay them $x - $x dollars the court calls that breach of contract.  Politicians lie.  They lie to our face and smile.  In this instance the courts have called them on it.  

 

"Re the socks, I think Kap did in fact limit his criticism to the bad cops."  How?!?!?  Did his socks have script stating "this is only directed at bad cops."  If it did I missed that.  Did he clarify the statement of his socks (which he purchased and wore) by saying his particular choice of socks were directed at bad cops?!?!?  I consider him a man first...not an African-American.  I don't see color.  I look at people through the prism of a great Christan Leader...Martin Luther King Jr.  "Not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."  I refuse to put words in the QBs mouth.  He has ample opportunity to clarify his choice in socks and his actions during the national anthem.  If he chooses to denigrate the police...then he should be recognized as holding such beliefs.  He is not a child.  As an adult he has made a choice.  If there is backlash then he will stand firm if he believes his cause to be strong...or he may do one of the hardest things for a person to do...ask himself if he is wrong.

 

"Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause."  If this is in fact true I am sorry.  

I know of a white couple that were pulled out of their car at gunpoint (including handguns and shotguns) by police officers.  They were absolutely horrified at the time...as would be anybody.  Afterward they were informed that they were driving a green Honda which matching the description of a vehicle fleeing the area of a serious crime.  Wrong place wrong time.  The police apologized and let them on their way to the party they were headed to...with an interesting story.  Racist?!?  No, they didn't match the racial make up of the possible suspects.  However, at night it's hard to see into a car and match that up.  And cops also know that "Hispanic" may be Caucasian with different lighting.  Do I think policemen are perfect?  No.  But I also haven't met anyone that I've seen walk on water.  That is a tough standard to meet.

 

What I am saying in a long way around is black lives matter.  Just like everybody else's lives.  But let's look at black lives matters as identifying a particular issue.  What is the greatest danger to a young black man's life?  Let's start there so that we can save the most lives of young black men as soon as possible.

[PapaDisco]

2 hours ago, hjmclain22 said:

Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause.  The issue is real and needs to be addressed.  Kudos to Kap for voicing his POV.

 

 

 

That's happened in my family as well, and we're white.  No detentions (except for Peace movement protests way back when), but certainly stops and questioning without reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

[RijkdeGooier]

50 minutes ago, Hutch said:

His tone may have troubled you, but you might consider the message...not interested in the topic, consider not opening the thread. That would seem more reasonable than trying to dictate to the forum that only topics you are interested in be allowed, dontcha think ? Just a thought  

Hutch it isn't that I or anyone else get's to pick and choose. That would not be correct.

The guy doing the picking and choosing is the host, as is his right. As a user of his board we are OK with his picks.

His picks can be found here:

Personally, I was merely referring to the possibility that this topic might fall under Rule #2. If the powers that be find rule #2 doesn't apply on this topic then I can also accept that. 

 

Rule #2 seems a very good one - I (and many others I'd guess) have seen discussions on this over the internet go south real quick.

[jwr0201]

Interesting that a few that support joe socks QB's right to disrespect police and make a statement by not honoring the national anthem would not offer the same right to this thread and instead suggest it be shut down.  Kinda like the people who would regulate anything they find to be not in their interest...like cigars!  Just sayin'!  

BTW, as a kid with long hair and a muscle car Mustang in the 70's, I was regularly stopped by police and often searched because of the 'profile' of a young male with long hair and a hotrod.  So, it is ALL of us, not just a select group that experienced this.  I don't mind that at all now and did not then.  Minor inconvenience to have good police protection.  I also would never think of disrespecting those fine people.  They deserve every dime they receive in compensation as do our fine fire/EMT and military personnel.  Without these groups who put themselves in harms way, we would be in bad shape.   I still believe that joe socks will at some point call the cops when someone does something he doesn't like.  People like that feel free to insult and disrespect, but call on the same ones he spits on to defend him.  The team should cut his ass loose and send a message.  

[LGC]

When my father came to this country, he was discriminated against by both whites and blacks. Even being born in this country, I have been discriminated against by both whites and blacks. I do not demand any special rights based on the color of my skin or my visual appearance. There will always be racist people in this world (whites, blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Europeans, middle easterners, etc.). I don't believe in always living in the past, or thinking everyone is against me. People have the right to say or do anything they want... but they better be willing to deal with the repercussions of their actions (whether or not they are legally able to do so). There seems to be an abundance of people with entitled attitudes, and lack of accountability. Whether you choose to make political stances on your employer's time, smoke dope, rob stores, tell everyone to murder cops, or attack policemen... don't be surprised when karma comes back around.

[Colt45]

18 minutes ago, Brandon said:

People have the right to say or do anything they want... but they better be willing to deal with the repercussions of their actions

No doubt - free speech absolutely is not without responsibility or the possibility of repercussion. I can "say what I want", but I best be willing to accept the response.

[PigFish]

22 minutes ago, Brandon said:

When my father came to this country, he was discriminated against by both whites and blacks. Even being born in this country, I have been discriminated against by both whites and blacks. I do not demand any special rights based on the color of my skin or my visual appearance. There will always be racist people in this world (whites, blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Europeans, middle easterners, etc.). I don't believe in always living in the past, or thinking everyone is against me. People have the right to say or do anything they want... but they better be willing to deal with the repercussions of their actions (whether or not they are legally able to do so). There seems to be an abundance of people with entitled attitudes, and lack of accountability. Whether you choose to make political stances on your employer's time, smoke dope, rob stores, tell everyone to murder cops, or attack policemen... don't be surprised when karma comes back around.

... I know, I took one look at you and gave you the worst cigar that I had... -LOL (Lighten up people, Brandon is a friend of mine!!!)

Living in the USA is not a guarantee of outcome, but should be one of fairness under the law. Me, I was a long-hair in a hotrod too. Lights, tinted windows, you name it, I got tickets for it. I have lots of stories, most will fall on deaf ears here.

I am tired of the whining, most of us have dealt with a cop that we did not like. Don't like the cops in your neighborhood, clean them up yourself then. Don't call them. Protect your women, children better and treat your neighbor with some dignity and respect. Join the police yourself and shape the system... There has been plenty of room for you and time for you. Ever hear of affirmative action? Get off your ass and do something about it. Mentor, provide a foster home, give to your church and attend it.

You know, when you are not dependent on government to clean up your mess, they won't be sending people around to tell you what to do in your neighborhoods. Don't like the men (women) in blue, clean up the place and start taking care of your own so that they don't have to do it for you. You think they want to get involved with your anger over the coffee at Micky'D's? You think they want to settle your gunfight with your 'dealer.' Do they want to get between you fighting with your wife, or want to see you beat your kid??? Ask some of them... They prefer the donut shop!!! (a little humor).

You want them back at the donut shop??? Don't give them a reason to come by. Maybe you don't realize that not all the people in your neighborhood think like you do. Maybe some of them are afraid, even afraid of you!!! They call the police when they hear gun shots, screaming, breaking glass. Knowing that you likely learned to shoot watching Ice Cube on TV, they know you are more likely to kill them than your neighborhood foe!

If you don't want to be treaded like a child, stop acting like children! Lord knows, if you people in the cities would stop feeding on each other, killing each other and treating each other like animals, you would need less 'wranglers' around and maybe we could lower the cost of law enforcement!!!

The law goes where it is called for. It is really that simple. If you people think they like being attacked, having rocks thrown at them etcetera, just go ask one. I am sure they would rather be at the receiving end of a tossed donut!

I guess you sometimes have to spell out the obvious to some people.  -Piggy

[PigFish]

9 hours ago, StumpyJoe said:

You say that you appreciate my post and the five minute video, but then immediately state that it is "only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination."  Did you watch the video with an open mind?  It doesn't appear so.  

 

Statistically police officers have a greater chance to die by the hands of a black assailant than killing a black assailant.  Statistically young black men are killed in far greater numbers by young black men than police.  These are not opinions or anecdotes.  

 

Making police the enemy does not fix the problem.  If you want less black deaths identify the greatest risk to black lives.  I for one would like to see less deaths of young black men...the largest cause...other young black men.  Why is the biggest danger to young black men other black men?!?!?  I have no idea.  Let's find out why and address this as it would afford the most black lives saved.  

 

You denegrate Prager University as "a bootleg university of Phoenix, might as well be trump university..."  This is patently false.  It is an attempt to impeach the witness by falsifying its credentials.  Prager University has no connection to either Phoenix or Trump.  Your allusion is callous.  I can understand your disagreement, but that is not a license to sully or slander an organization you disagree with.

 

"If you want to support making firefighters and police millionaires that's your prerogative."  I have yet to meet a single millionaire policeman or firefighter.  Politicians are another matter.  "We did find a later article from September 2015 in Fortune that estimated Hillary Clinton's net worth at about $30 million. In October 2015, Forbes wrote, "After layering years of disclosures on top of annual tax returns, Forbes estimates their combined net worth at $45 million."Aug 7, 2016"

"Politicians who attempt to curb the spending on such pensions are met with severe backlash and several courts have recently found their efforts to do so are illegal. "  The reason for this is the courts recognize that politicians entered into a contract with emergency services which both parties agreed to.  When the politicians decide they changed they're mind the courts remind the politicians that they entered into a binding contract.  If I have a contractor put a new roof on my house for an agreed $x dollars and upon completion of the work I tell them that I will pay them $x - $x dollars the court calls that breach of contract.  Politicians lie.  They lie to our face and smile.  In this instance the courts have called them on it.  

 

"Re the socks, I think Kap did in fact limit his criticism to the bad cops."  How?!?!?  Did his socks have script stating "this is only directed at bad cops."  If it did I missed that.  Did he clarify the statement of his socks (which he purchased and wore) by saying his particular choice of socks were directed at bad cops?!?!?  I consider him a man first...not an African-American.  I don't see color.  I look at people through the prism of a great Christan Leader...Martin Luther King Jr.  "Not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."  I refuse to put words in the QBs mouth.  He has ample opportunity to clarify his choice in socks and his actions during the national anthem.  If he chooses to denigrate the police...then he should be recognized as holding such beliefs.  He is not a child.  As an adult he has made a choice.  If there is backlash then he will stand firm if he believes his cause to be strong...or he may do one of the hardest things for a person to do...ask himself if he is wrong.

 

"Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause."  If this is in fact true I am sorry.  

I know of a white couple that were pulled out of their car at gunpoint (including handguns and shotguns) by police officers.  They were absolutely horrified at the time...as would be anybody.  Afterward they were informed that they were driving a green Honda which matching the description of a vehicle fleeing the area of a serious crime.  Wrong place wrong time.  The police apologized and let them on their way to the party they were headed to...with an interesting story.  Racist?!?  No, they didn't match the racial make up of the possible suspects.  However, at night it's hard to see into a car and match that up.  And cops also know that "Hispanic" may be Caucasian with different lighting.  Do I think policemen are perfect?  No.  But I also haven't met anyone that I've seen walk on water.  That is a tough standard to meet.

 

What I am saying in a long way around is black lives matter.  Just like everybody else's lives.  But let's look at black lives matters as identifying a particular issue.  What is the greatest danger to a young black man's life?  Let's start there so that we can save the most lives of young black men as soon as possible.

... a very good post! Bravo!

-Piggy

[hjmclain22]

I certainly can doubt the analysis from Prager U, which is not a well recognized or accredited "university". I've never heard of that institution, what facts are their analysis based upon...is Prager pushing an agenda.

 Assuming the facts are true, it does not explain what I've seen with my own eyes.  Over the past several years I've  seen children of color shot by police, body slammed to the ground by police at local swimming pools and even at their schools, men obviously subdued and shot in the back.  I for one have not seen this happen to white children.  This issue is not about black on black crime, it's police use of excessive force against blacks.

i just don't agree on the pensions issue. These MOUs and side letter agreements between govts and unions that span over 20-50 years certainly should be subject to renogiation.  These policemen and firemen make a lot of money, well after they retire on pensions alone.  Dont get me wrong they provide a great service to our communities but I'm still amazed at how much they make well after their employment ends with their respective departments.

Enjoy your holiday folks..and may the discussion continue.

 

 

[joeypots]

 

11 hours ago, hjmclain22 said:

But it's only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination.

 

 

 

Here's another video germaine to the subject:

I think our collective ignorance of our history is profound and the mythology we were fed as kids can't help but shape our views as adults. We all can attest to the hardships our ancestors endured as immigrants and should not disparage any ones struggle. But, only African Americans endured the horrors of chattel slavery and the Jim Crow South. "The effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination" are apparent but still not fully understood. What we do see, all of these years later,  is an underclass that is furious. Provably so when every other person on the street has a smart phone. We are  furious when one who has risen out of that underclass has the temerity to advocate through protest for those who have not had similar opportunities.  He should be grateful for the gifts he has and the opportunity he ha been given. Well he is, he's just using the forum he has to try to help his people who are less fortunate.

[jfire]

As a career firefighter and medic in a suburb south of Chicago. (3rd busiest in IL with 20k calls)
I have the chance to work with police officers of ALL COLORS.
(320 street cops.)
- ALL POLICE BLACK, White Hispanic are tired of the black lives matter movement. They can not do their job anymore with out some person of color telling them they are being harassed. PEOPLE when a police officer asks you a question. Give him or her a honest answer. It will go a long way with your "interrogation" , being terminated.
(They are there to find out what exactly is going on.) And as Piggy said, most would rather be running radar or staying safe in their squad car.
Now onto the issues of pension. I'm a Union Fireman. I would simply not work where I do for half my wages or benefits. My family has had to deal with my bullshit for plenty of days after pulling a deceased person out of a smoke filled, oven of a house fire. In fact it just happened 3 weeks prior. Two adults neither of them did we save. Kindly, how do you think that plays with my emotions and well being. Guess what it can last weeks if not months. It's not easy. The kid driving to high school with his brand new car. Brain damage and double femur fractures from driving too fast. The 3 year old that passes away in the early morning hours from a unknown medical. His parents beyond distraught and throwing their child at you. I mean the list is a mile long for me and my fellow co workers.
-I and most organized Police, Fire and EMS pay anywhere from 10-15% of EVERY PAYCHECK into the pension system we are in, nationwide. Guess what!?! Not every state has been obligated to pay THEIR OBLIGATED portion the last 30-40 years. Shame on them!!! Not on us! Now many (like Chicago) are broke.

-Lastly below is officer Daniel Jarema. He was my wife's Father. He and my wife's family gave the ultimate sacrifice. He gave his life in the line of duty serving the people of Lockport, IL. (Hit head on in his squad by a semi truck responding to a armed robbery call)
His daughter (my wife) was 8. His son was just 5.
Tell them his 700 dollar a month pension (survivor benefit) is too much. He gave his life. And my wife at the age of 36 still cries on his anniversary.
I think you may want to open your eyes a little and see the world from others sacrifices a bit more. Maybe then yours are not that bad.

Jfire


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cigcars]

10 hours ago, StumpyJoe said:

You say that you appreciate my post and the five minute video, but then immediately state that it is "only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination."  Did you watch the video with an open mind?  It doesn't appear so.  

 

Statistically police officers have a greater chance to die by the hands of a black assailant than killing a black assailant.  Statistically young black men are killed in far greater numbers by young black men than police.  These are not opinions or anecdotes.  

 

Making police the enemy does not fix the problem.  If you want less black deaths identify the greatest risk to black lives.  I for one would like to see less deaths of young black men...the largest cause...other young black men.  Why is the biggest danger to young black men other black men?!?!?  I have no idea.  Let's find out why and address this as it would afford the most black lives saved.  

 

You denegrate Prager University as "a bootleg university of Phoenix, might as well be trump university..."  This is patently false.  It is an attempt to impeach the witness by falsifying its credentials.  Prager University has no connection to either Phoenix or Trump.  Your allusion is callous.  I can understand your disagreement, but that is not a license to sully or slander an organization you disagree with.

 

"If you want to support making firefighters and police millionaires that's your prerogative."  I have yet to meet a single millionaire policeman or firefighter.  Politicians are another matter.  "We did find a later article from September 2015 in Fortune that estimated Hillary Clinton's net worth at about $30 million. In October 2015, Forbes wrote, "After layering years of disclosures on top of annual tax returns, Forbes estimates their combined net worth at $45 million."Aug 7, 2016"

"Politicians who attempt to curb the spending on such pensions are met with severe backlash and several courts have recently found their efforts to do so are illegal. "  The reason for this is the courts recognize that politicians entered into a contract with emergency services which both parties agreed to.  When the politicians decide they changed they're mind the courts remind the politicians that they entered into a binding contract.  If I have a contractor put a new roof on my house for an agreed $x dollars and upon completion of the work I tell them that I will pay them $x - $x dollars the court calls that breach of contract.  Politicians lie.  They lie to our face and smile.  In this instance the courts have called them on it.  

 

"Re the socks, I think Kap did in fact limit his criticism to the bad cops."  How?!?!?  Did his socks have script stating "this is only directed at bad cops."  If it did I missed that.  Did he clarify the statement of his socks (which he purchased and wore) by saying his particular choice of socks were directed at bad cops?!?!?  I consider him a man first...not an African-American.  I don't see color.  I look at people through the prism of a great Christan Leader...Martin Luther King Jr.  "Not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."  I refuse to put words in the QBs mouth.  He has ample opportunity to clarify his choice in socks and his actions during the national anthem.  If he chooses to denigrate the police...then he should be recognized as holding such beliefs.  He is not a child.  As an adult he has made a choice.  If there is backlash then he will stand firm if he believes his cause to be strong...or he may do one of the hardest things for a person to do...ask himself if he is wrong.

 

"Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause."  If this is in fact true I am sorry.  

I know of a white couple that were pulled out of their car at gunpoint (including handguns and shotguns) by police officers.  They were absolutely horrified at the time...as would be anybody.  Afterward they were informed that they were driving a green Honda which matching the description of a vehicle fleeing the area of a serious crime.  Wrong place wrong time.  The police apologized and let them on their way to the party they were headed to...with an interesting story.  Racist?!?  No, they didn't match the racial make up of the possible suspects.  However, at night it's hard to see into a car and match that up.  And cops also know that "Hispanic" may be Caucasian with different lighting.  Do I think policemen are perfect?  No.  But I also haven't met anyone that I've seen walk on water.  That is a tough standard to meet.

 

What I am saying in a long way around is black lives matter.  Just like everybody else's lives.  But let's look at black lives matters as identifying a particular issue.  What is the greatest danger to a young black man's life?  Let's start there so that we can save the most lives of young black men as soon as possible.

 

        *Stumpy, have you seen or been made aware of, at all, that the primary problem here (with what he is protesting) is the fact that when the police shoot, choke hold, taze to death, and otherwise kill all these Black young men (and women) is that THEY ARE NOT PUNISHED for it - at all. THAT is the primary problem here. Yes indeed - you can't control the fact that there are bad apples in EVERY department, government and the private industry. But when they do go amiss - an adequate cost and punishment is imposed to curtail it. In each and every case, the police are ALWAYS ACQUITTED of any wrong doing. I'm addressing this as a police officer (retired), myself. No.1, if we even unstrap our holster, let alone have to just point our gun at anybody, tons and tons and tons of paperwork is required where we'd BETTER be able to justify it.  With the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson a report WASN'T EVEN DONE. Only later, afterwards was some kind of Mickey Mouse writing added to address what the officer did. And there were at least 7 different witnesses not related to each other at all who said that kid was at least 50 feet away from the officer with his hands up when he was shot. And the DA's & all just played word games of semantics with them..."Are you SURE you saw that?" "Was the sun over here/over there?" "Were cars coming through that might have distorted your vision?" ad infinitum. Let me share something with you - back when we were policing the way we were required - you are not EVER justified in pulling you GUN on somebody who is only relying fists (as according to that officer's story). That's why you have ESCALATING LEVELS of weaponry - tazer, baton, pepper spray...but it's always guns pulled out with the folks who've stayed in the oven too long. For those occurrences when no excuse can be made for what the officer's had done, have you seen, Stumpy, those instances where an Alabama jury awarded the Black victims of unwarranted police violence ONE DOLLAR? I am not being facetious - ONE DOLLAR. And the  police doubled back on their victims to charge THEM with their court costs of over $175,000.  Another jury awarded an African-American family who's home was burst in on and who were roughed up, beaten, guns pointed at their heads, only for it to have been the wrong house - that jury awarded them $18. NO, I am not leaving zeros off - EIGHTEEN DOLLARS. So the public outrage and backlash caused the State offices to say, "Alright - we'll award you $15,000!" still insultingly low for what they suffered. It wasn't my intention to give THIS LONG a post, but I just couldn't hold out any longer looking at this topic. Again, I want to emphasize that the PROBLEM here is the near 100% ACQUITTALS of police at fault - which is giving them the green light to unduly harass and shoot as many Black folks as they want...which IS State Sponsored, State Sanctioned terrorism; "Yeah, go ahead and shoot'em...we'll take care of it for you!" In 1980 an EIGHTY-ONE YEAR OLD Black woman was shot to death by no less than SIX white deputies in Chicago. They claimed she had a knife. Okay? You six grown men (IF they were telling the truth) couldn't handle an EIGHTY-ONE YEAR OLD, IN BAD HEALTH, WOMAN with a baton or just over powering her??? They were allowed to act as if she had the speed of Carl Lewis; the agility of Marilou Retton; and the strength of Hecules, Samson AND Ulysses - and they shot her - no other witnesses. Verdict - acquitted.  In Louisville, KY we had an incident some years back - White cop shot a HANDCUFFED Black man six times in the back. Verdict - not guilty. The incidences and list is endless. WHOEVER this Prager U broad is with her probably FOX news inspired article, the incidences are TOO COMMON PLACE, of which in just Rudy Giuliani's New York tenure alone, young Black men were being shot to death EVERY OTHER DAY, and the defense was always the same: "He had something in his hand, I thought it was a gun" - turned out to be his keys. "He had something in his hand, I thought it was a gun" - turned out to be a candy bar. Yet in all that time - not one, I repeat, NOT ONE UNARMED WHITE person was EVER shot and killed by NYPD. WHAT does that tell you? Undercover Black New York COPS were being shot by NYPD.

    I'll just end this little tirade here (thank GOD! I can hear you all saying), joeypots has just ran a section of the Star Spangled Banner's words. In the Bill of Rights - the Pre-amble to the Constitution you know that section that says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL MEN are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights..." With it's saying "endowed by their Creator", it means that you're BORN with those rights. You don't have to work for or earn those rights...those rights are GOD GIVEN. And it continues with, "And when these Rights are DESTROYED - OVER LONG PERIODS OF TIME - it is your DUTY to destroy or abolish that governing entity!"   Well - - nobody (on Black folk's end) is looking to destroy or nut up on anybody. All that this football guy and the Black Lives Matter movement is doing is PROTESTING - VERBALLY or SYMBOLICALLY...and that's ALL. I would think that thinking people would or SHOULD be appreciative of that fact, instead of their using more drastic means.  There are some among our White brethren who've admitted that if this kind of nonsense were happening to THEM - no one has to pretend that these more drastic means would not have occurred A LOOOONG time ago. Yeah - go ahead and start arresting one in four White males for drug use/drug sales, broken tail-light, selling cigarettes for .25ea., or otherwise being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Go ahead. THEY'LL tell you (the ones who are willing to be honest), there would be a revolution that would make the Civil War and Revolutionary War combined look like a tea and crumpet party.

How about being grateful or appreciating that largely all this society has to worry about when Black folks, en mass, get truly "fed up", all they have to "worry about" is their putting together a bunch of placards, walking around in circles, and singing tunes. I know some of you are reliving those very few instances where a few sporadic "cases" went on shooting sprees of cops, and so on...BUT it was not ALL THOSE folks doing such. As was said earlier, it's a two-way street as far as respecting people enough to be able to do one's job correctly and not recklessly - going for your gun in every instance.

 

   

[Colt45]

1 hour ago, PigFish said:

 

Living in the USA is not a guarantee of outcome, but should be one of fairness under the law. Me, I was a long-hair in a hotrod too. Lights, tinted windows, you name it, I got tickets for it. I have lots of stories, most will fall on deaf ears here.

So let's say you got popped for speeding or marginally running a light. Three, four, or five officers have you pinned to the ground and one of them shoots you dead. Would your family and friends say you had it coming?

 

1 hour ago, PigFish said:

Lord knows, if you people in the cities would stop feeding on each other, killing each other and treating each other like animals, you would need less 'wranglers' around and maybe we could lower the cost of law enforcement!!!

Yeah, it doesn't get much more condescending than that.....

seriously.

 

For what it's worth, my input until now has really been about the original topic. Trust me, my thoughts on how to treat criminals of all shapes and sizes are best kept to myself. Watching someone entrusted to keeping the peace execute a man who has been subdued is beyond my comprehension, and should sicken us all.

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

. Knowing that you likely learned to shoot watching Ice Cube on TV, they know you are more likely to kill them than your neighborhood foe!

just stating the obvious here, ray, but it seems you might be advocating gun control.

just a little humour, rob.

more seriously, and recognising that most of our law enforcement officials are decent people, i completely concur with colt's last sentence.

[PigFish]

46 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

just stating the obvious here, ray, but it seems you might be advocating gun control.

just a little humour, rob.

more seriously, and recognising that most of our law enforcement officials are decent people, i completely concur with colt's last sentence.

No, but I get the joke. Don't make me go there!!! -LOL

Frankly I am advocating acting in a lawful manner, both by the government and the citizenry, and holding both to an accountable standard when the law is broken.

Shooting innocent people is against the law, whether you are a cop or regular citizen, and those laws should not be a standard born only to civilians.

1 hour ago, Colt45 said:

 

Yeah, it doesn't get much more condescending than that.....

seriously.

I don't care! Seriously!

I am not running for office nor greasing anyones skids!

This is one reason I am against many populist and trending views. These views appear to me more interested in 'messaging' and appearance than facts, reasons and solutions.

The facts are these! We have a turnstile criminal justice system pushed by the left. We have leftist judges and politicians that release criminals into the population after treating them with 3 hot meals a day and a gym to buff up!!! We have sanctuary cities where illegal alien criminals are let loose to commit more crimes, contrary to existing federal law. The news media is more interested in the rare case of an officer committed crime than repeat offender committed crime! Most of the cities where most the the egregious crimes are committed, many of which also have the highest crime rates are run by the left (and have the most XXX control Ken... -LOL).

The left has failed these communities with their theories about and pandering to the criminal element. The latest move by the left is attempting to give felons a reinstatement of the right to vote! Thank God that one failed! And guess who has to deal with all these thugs, day in and day out? It is the cop on the beat!!!

Just what I want... Criminals voting on judges in their district that are soft on crime!!! Gotta' love the logic of the left... Anything, and I mean anything to get elected!

Oh, and Ross... A cop murdering an innocent man should be hanged, not given 3 meals a day and given a gym to buff up! That is, after he has had his day in court like any other that has been accused of a capital crime. He/she stops being a cop (rhetorically) when he/she becomes a criminal...! BUT hanging him because he is white and shot a black man is just a wrong as hanging a black man, just because he shot a white man!

-Ray

 

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, joeypots said:

 

Here's another video germaine to the subject:

I think our collective ignorance of our history is profound and the mythology we were fed as kids can't help but shape our views as adults. We all can attest to the hardships our ancestors endured as immigrants and should not disparage any ones struggle. But, only African Americans endured the horrors of chattel slavery and the Jim Crow South. "The effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination" are apparent but still not fully understood. What we do see, all of these years later,  is an underclass that is furious. Provably so when every other person on the street has a smart phone. We are  furious when one who has risen out of that underclass has the temerity to advocate through protest for those who have not had similar opportunities.  He should be grateful for the gifts he has and the opportunity he ha been given. Well he is, he's just using the forum he has to try to help his people who are less fortunate.

...hogwash!

Please Google Irish Slave Trade!

Oh, and Jim Crow, check his party affiliation before you vote this November! -Piggy

[hjmclain22]

1 hour ago, PigFish said:

...hogwash!

Please Google Irish Slave Trade!

 

This may be the funniest thing I've read all day.  

Hogwash is right!!! You must regularly watch Ancient Aliens too.   

[NSXCIGAR]

On 9/4/2016 at 11:05 PM, hjmclain22 said:

I appreciate your post and the five minute video. But it's only indicative of the largest issue, the effects of the subjugation of a people and the remnants of racial discrimination.  If you want to support making firefighters and police millionaires that's your prerogative.  Politicians who attempt to curb the spending on such pensions are met with severe backlash and several courts have recently found their efforts to do so are illegal.  

Also, Prager University is a bootleg university of Phoenix, might as well be trump university...

Re the socks, I think Kap did in fact limit his criticism to the bad cops.  

Lastly, as an African American, I and several of my black friends and family members have had to deal with unwarranted racial profiling, stops and detentions with no reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause.  The issue is real and needs to be addressed.  Kudos to Kap for voicing his POV.

I'm going to have to make a few comments about this as well.

First, blacks do commit more crimes than other races in the US by percentage of population:

In 2013, the FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 per cent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. The offender’s race was “unknown” in 29.1 per cent of cases. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

This is simply a fact to keep in mind. The police are responding to what may appear to them to be an increased threat risk. Now, better police personnel and training, in my opinion, might improve their responses and behavior resulting in less of the altercations we see today. However, very few of these confrontations escalate without the suspect at least failing to obey a lawful order or engaging in some unsavory behavior. Again, not justifying police overreactions. But court is the place to challenge a cop, not the street. That's just the system we have.

In terms of the remnants of racial discrimination, keep in mind that the lot of the American blacks was far better at times when racism was far more common--even the norm. Throughout the Jim Crow period of the early 20th Century until the late 1960s, black youth unemployment was often lower than white unemployment. Black poverty was being reduced faster than any other group and at rates unseen since--for all races. Inner city violence of the sort we see today was non-existent. Black families were largely intact, with fewer black children being born out of wedlock than whites. And then, as Walter Williams so succinctly puts it, the welfare state did what Jim Crow and even slavery couldn't do--destroy the black family. Then came the war on drugs, decimating these minority communities further, as well as initiating the continued militarization of police.

What we see today, in my opinion, are simply the symptoms of the greater problems--terrible government education, public housing, the welfare state, the war on drugs, the minimum wage. These are the issues that few in the public eye will talk about. It's far easier to cry racism than to have to peel back the layers of a very frightening institutional framework and ask people to question many things they hold dear. 

The racism dog just doesn't hunt. It can be easily argued that racism toward Asians was far greater than blacks from 1946-1990, yet they have thrived in the US. Ethnic and religious groups have been subject to all sorts of discrimination in the US for centuries, from the Asians and Irish Catholics to the Italians and the Polish. Yet they somehow overcame it. It might be more than racism or discrimination that relegates certain groups to a given socio-economic status.

[Jeremy Festa]

Fair play to this Colin lad who I had never previously heard of prior to this forum post.

There are some fabulous posts in this thread, some sound arguments, both for and against. 

But the fact that there has been such an intelligent, and sometimes humorous discussion, I feel Colin has achieved what he set out to do.

Disrespect an anthem or flag, or call people names, it really doesn't matter. The issue is what matters.

Whether you are informed, misinformed, well educated, religious, racist or a bigot, the fact that people feel passionate about a certain "thing" is what life is really all about.

This guy plays football right? We smoke cigars. 

 

 

 

[SCgarman]

1 minute ago, Jeremy Festa said:

Fair play to this Colin lad who I had never previously heard of prior to this forum post.

There are some fabulous posts in this thread, some sound arguments, both for and against. 

But the fact that there has been such an intelligent, and sometimes humorous discussion, I feel Colin has achieved what he set out to do.

Disrespect an anthem or flag, or call people names, it really doesn't matter. The issue is what matters.

Whether you are informed, misinformed, well educated, religious, racist or a bigot, the fact that people feel passionate about a certain "thing" is what life is really all about.

This guy plays football right? We smoke cigars. 

 

 

 

Well, he did play football. He has been relegated to back up QB. He lost the starting job. So now he can make millions of dollars to sit and watch! What a country! LOL