My take on the lifting of international restrictions of Cuban cigars for US residents.

[Hurltim]

Americans are fed a steady diet of fear on a daily basis and have been for a loooooong time. As a whole, we definitely behave more like herd animals.

There will be a bit of a rush and then life will go back to normal until the embargo is fully lifted.

Meanwhile, I will buy my cigars here with confidence and look forward to my first visit to an LCDH (first visit outside of the US) in Italy to search for mildly aged cigars and the occasional RE knowing I will not have to stick them in my "prison purse" to get them home.

My sphincter breathes a sigh of relief

 

 

[jwr0201]

There is probably going to be a small, but busy secondary market for CC's here in the short term.  Most US citizens will likely buy Cubans only if they are readily available.  Just this weekend at the Cigar shop here, I must have had a dozen requests for "Real Cubans".  No brand names noted - just Real Cubans.  If I were a scalper, I could make some good sheckels!  I can foresee where Cuban Cigars will be like Coors beer here in the southeast US.  When it wasn't available, it had that special mystique.  After Coors was finally permitted to be sold here, initially was out of stock for a few months.  Within a year, no big deal.  

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, jwr0201 said:

There is probably going to be a small, but busy secondary market for CC's here in the short term.  Most US citizens will likely buy Cubans only if they are readily available.  Just this weekend at the Cigar shop here, I must have had a dozen requests for "Real Cubans".  No brand names noted - just Real Cubans.  If I were a scalper, I could make some good sheckels!  I can foresee where Cuban Cigars will be like Coors beer here in the southeast US.  When it wasn't available, it had that special mystique.  After Coors was finally permitted to be sold here, initially was out of stock for a few months.  Within a year, no big deal.  

Yup. most folks realized Coors was just mass produced crap like Bud, Miller and the rest! You always want what you can't have!

[DaBigDog]

My main concern is not so much about a shortage or increase in price, but in quality.  For those Cuban enthusiasts that remember 1999-2001 production runs....shudder!!!  Cuba decided to ramp up production with inexperienced rollers, and non-existent QA processes.  Back when you could get cigars from those three years, I stayed away due to the major hit and miss.  I fondly (NOT) recall an entire box of Monte A's which I could have used for tent pegs.  Threw them in the garbage.   What a waste of $400 bucks.  Even a drawpoker couldn't help.

I hope Habanos sticks with the plan to grow all facets of the business...tobacco, rollers, quality, etc at a rate that not only increases production but maintains quality and flavor.  Much better for the long term.

[Lotusguy]

There is probably going to be a small, but busy secondary market for CC's here in the short term.  Most US citizens will likely buy Cubans only if they are readily available.  Just this weekend at the Cigar shop here, I must have had a dozen requests for "Real Cubans".  No brand names noted - just Real Cubans.  If I were a scalper, I could make some good sheckels!  I can foresee where Cuban Cigars will be like Coors beer here in the southeast US.  When it wasn't available, it had that special mystique.  After Coors was finally permitted to be sold here, initially was out of stock for a few months.  Within a year, no big deal.  

There already is a thriving secondary market on Facebook and a handful of websites. One thing that may change is that now there could be more availability of cigars from countries where mail order is illegal like Spain, Italy, and France because now visitors can legally bring them with them. That said, Spanish stuff and even Andorra is already readily available on FB.

[anacostiakat]

I view this as a move in the right direction.  Setting things up for further down the road.  I don't see how this particular move is going to make any big difference.  It is all about the long game.  Which I applaud.

[Orion21]

Those of us who have been here for more than a minute have seen this coming for at least a few years.  If it's impacted your buying that's another thing...

I think in the short term the biggest impact will be caused by people like us.  Think about it, we have the knowledge, money and experience to now buy in bulk without fear of confiscations!  The recreational smoker isn't going to magically jump on-line and start buying up 10 boxes of CoRo at a time.  If prices go up I can suspend my buying and not worry about it.  I mean, this is why I have bought so many boxes over the last three years - for this exact reason.  TBH, I haven't bought a box of cigars in several months or more.  I maxed out my capacity and I think I did it at just the right time.  

 

 

[dangolf18]

2 hours ago, Orion21 said:

Those of us who have been here for more than a minute have seen this coming for at least a few years.  If it's impacted your buying that's another thing...

I think in the short term the biggest impact will be caused by people like us.  Think about it, we have the knowledge, money and experience to now buy in bulk without fear of confiscations!  The recreational smoker isn't going to magically jump on-line and start buying up 10 boxes of CoRo at a time.  If prices go up I can suspend my buying and not worry about it.  I mean, this is why I have bought so many boxes over the last three years - for this exact reason.  TBH, I haven't bought a box of cigars in several months or more.  I maxed out my capacity and I think I did it at just the right time.  

 

 

Still illegal to buy online though...

[aes8]

On 10/16/2016 at 0:34 PM, Hutch said:

Agreed. But there will be a lot of converts...IMO. There can't help but be ! Look at all of us who used to enjoy NCs who now would hate to do without our Cuban cigars...even those of us who still smoke both. Yes, quite a bit of the spike will certainly be temporary, but there just have to be a whole bunch of folks who haven't partaken for fear of legal consequences. I agree with Rob though...we can't know for sure what's going to happen, and things will eventually "normalize". I've been stocking in pretty heavily since Hussein won his second term, so will just hunker down and watch the storm blow on by  

^^^Truth! 

If you don't have a stash of CC from floor to ceiling then you were either resource limited or just plain missed the boat. 

Now maybe F/N will roll some more 858 Rosados!

 

[chris12381]

As a American heading to Cuba in 3 weeks, this was timely and welcome news.  I can't wait to pass through US Customs and answer, "Do you have anything to declare?" with, "A shitload of Cuban cigars and rum!"  

For me, it boils down to this.  I've been going to Cuba for 12 years. I lived/studied there in 2003 and 2004.   So, all of these small changes represent several things that are a long time coming and the right thing to do.  And I personally would have a tough time looking my Cuban friends in the eyes while supporting certain portions of the embargo just so I could continue to enjoy cigars and rum at current prices. 

[mnmlst]

Am I missing something? Isn't this all assuming that Tabacuba will want to pay the FDA and go through the process of certification (which needs to be done for each and every cigar, right?) Might they choose to do this only for a few select cigars that they can make in enough volume and command a high enough price to justify the expense, thus leaving many out of the U.S.  market as it won't be worth it for lower volume and/or cheaper vitolas as well as LE's?

I have wondered if some of the major cigar companies were secretly behind the FDA regulations to not only put small producers out of business, but also to keep CC's out, if and when the market opens up.

There will certainly be more buying of cigars by U.S. Citizens when traveling abroad (and more internet sales even though they are technically not allowed) but I don't see CC's showing up at my B&M any time soon thanks to the FDA. Probably the only positive side effect of that horrible legislation.

[Fugu]

Yes, certainly not Tabacuba, but at this moment it is not quite clear whether it might be HSA (through Imperial) as the marketing branch, or state owned trademark holder Cubatabaco directly filing the applications. Anyway, since both will profit from the new market it's not too unlikely that they will take a share in the necessary investments to be done.

Quite interesting to note, some of the changes having come along with the restructuring within Imperial. If you check (now renamed) Imperial Brands' website, the 50% HSA-share seems to be held now solely by a (new-formed/revived) Tabacalera subsidiary (headqu. Madrid). Altadis is now only shown to be holding cigarette as well as mass cigar and shag tobacco brands. There is also a new Tabacalera USA branch (since 2015), now holding Imperial's premium cigar segment in the US - I guess we'll hear more of that branch in the future....

 

[mnmlst]

5 hours ago, Hutch said:

Not Tabacuba. Google: Imperial Tobacco, and Altadis...see what they own and their financial position. Yes, you are missing something.

I figured I was. It was late and I didn't due my due diligence.

However, it seems as though the time to go through FDA approval is unknown and if Imperial and Altadis are not allowed to submit CCs for approval until the U.S. market is officially open, then it could still be up to or over a year before that happens. So, probably well into 2018 or beyond before CCs would be for sale in the U.S.

[dangolf18]

8 minutes ago, mnmlst said:

I figured I was. It was late and I didn't due my due diligence.

However, it seems as though the time to go through FDA approval is unknown and if Imperial and Altadis are not allowed to submit CCs for approval until the U.S. market is officially open, then it could still be up to or over a year before that happens. So, probably well into 2018 or beyond before CCs would be for sale in the U.S.

I'm guessing it won't be for at least 4-5 years if not much longer. 

[clutch5150]

12 hours ago, chris12381 said:

As a American heading to Cuba in 3 weeks, this was timely and welcome news.  I can't wait to pass through US Customs and answer, "Do you have anything to declare?" with, "A shitload of Cuban cigars and rum!"  

For me, it boils down to this.  I've been going to Cuba for 12 years. I lived/studied there in 2003 and 2004.   So, all of these small changes represent several things that are a long time coming and the right thing to do.  And I personally would have a tough time looking my Cuban friends in the eyes while supporting certain portions of the embargo just so I could continue to enjoy cigars and rum at current prices. 

Lol on this, but isn't there a tax you will have to pay if you bring in more than 100 cigars?

[Hurltim]

Lol on this, but isn't there a tax you will have to pay if you bring in more than 100 cigars?

4% over 800 bucks. Chump change

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[mi000ke]

Quote

On 10/16/2016 at 5:28 PM, ndhaon91 said:

 The cigar aficionados with the money, taste, and desire to stock up on Cuban cigars are already doing that through FoH or other vendors. It's not like you guys are a big secret or hard to find.

Agreed.  My take on it (based on admittedly limited data) is that the many friends I have who smoke cigars already have tried CCs, and know where to buy them if they want to - and several do.    I think the biggest impact will be on those smokers who have never tried a CC but now will be more inclined to. And of that group, like several of my friends I have given CCs to to try, most will opt to stay with non CCs.  So I expect a brief increase in demand which will settle back more or less to what it is today plus a small increase. 

 

[Lotusguy]

$.4056 per stick, or $10.14 on each 25ct box. Not too bad.

Yeah - but will the friendly customs agent still consider >100 cigars as "personal consumption"?

[Orion21]

9 hours ago, Lotusguy said:

Yeah - but will the friendly customs agent still consider >100 cigars as "personal consumption"?

That is easy to explain to customs.  I would tell them I have been a cigar collector for over ten years and now that Cuban cigars can now be legally brought back into the USA I bought a number of boxes to add to my collection.  What are they going to do?  Call you a liar?  I have had my share of interactions with Customs agents when traveling back from abroad and generally they are very nice people. They are absolutely profiling and coming in from Cuba will most likely mean more scrutiny, but I wouldn't be worried.  100 cigars is a decent amount.  If I was going to Cuba I would probably buy 10 boxes and tell the customs agent I am happy to pay the tax on the other six boxes.  

[BarryNY]

23 hours ago, clutch5150 said:

Lol on this, but isn't there a tax you will have to pay if you bring in more than 100 cigars?

Correct me if I'm wrong...but from what I read from the Customs website highlighted below (and the US Gov't is notorious for writing rules in gibberish) I believe that you are subject to a limitation of 100 cigars total.  Not 100 cigars free of duty and pay extra for the overage.  Here is the excerpt - maybe someone else can decipher differently.  Of course this is per person....so you can load up boxes with your non-smoking travel partners....

Returning resident travelers may import tobacco products only in quantities not exceeding the amounts specified in the personal exemptions for which the traveler qualifies (not more than 200 cigarettes and 100 cigars if arriving from other than a beneficiary country and insular possession). Any quantities of tobacco products not permitted by a personal exemption are subject to detention, seizure, penalties, abandonment, and destruction. Tobacco products are typically purchased in duty-free stores, on sea carriers operating internationally or in foreign stores.

[BarryNY]

So.....my older brother was a Custom's agent in the summer when he was in Dental School eons ago.

The sh-t he brought home with him that was "confiscated" from travelers was amazing...

So if you want to test the 100 stick rule - better buy a cheapy for that 5th box of 25...BUT which one are they going to grab from you?  LOL...........

[clutch5150]

25 minutes ago, Orion21 said:

That is easy to explain to customs.  I would tell them I have been a cigar collector for over ten years and now that Cuban cigars can now be legally brought back into the USA I bought a number of boxes to add to my collection.  What are they going to do?  Call you a liar?  I have had my share of interactions with Customs agents when traveling back from abroad and generally they are very nice people. They are absolutely profiling and coming in from Cuba will most likely mean more scrutiny, but I wouldn't be worried.  100 cigars is a decent amount.  If I was going to Cuba I would probably buy 10 boxes and tell the customs agent I am happy to pay the tax on the other six boxes.  

Not sure on that...My wife and I just got back from Cuba a few weeks ago and I have to admit going through Miami customs was the absolute fastest I've EVER been through. No exaggerations, it took us a whole TEN MINUTES to go through. Did the electronic insert your passport thing, checked through the stamp desk where the customs officer asked me if we wanted a stamp for our passport saying Cuba!  Also asked how we liked it out there! Never a mention on what we brought back etc. except "welcome home guys".    Crazy stuff at times...

[dangolf18]

27 minutes ago, BarryNY said:

So.....my older brother was a Custom's agent in the summer when he was in Dental School eons ago.

The sh-t he brought home with him that was "confiscated" from travelers was amazing...

So if you want to test the 100 stick rule - better buy a cheapy for that 5th box of 25...BUT which one are they going to grab from you?  LOL...........

I'm pretty sure you can bring back as many as you want...How are they going to prove it's not for personal consumption? I know some people that smoke almost a whole box a week. 

Quote from CA:

"And while the new ease in restrictions means that the number of personal cigars is technically unlimited, there is still an amount of duty that will have to be paid after a certain quantity is exceeded. OFAC's website points to an $800 exemption of duty every 31 days, and stresses duty-free limits of 100 cigars. According to OFAC's website: "A traveler may include up to 100 cigars and 200 cigarettes in the $800 exemption from duty... Additional cigars and cigarettes may be brought into the country, but they will be subject to duty and Federal excise taxes." Excess amounts are subject to a 4 percent flat rate of duty."

[BarryNY]

Well - you are quoting CA and I'm copying from the USGovt website.  But I'm no authority....just passing along a Reg I found.

The only way to know for sure is to "test" the rule.  The whole thing with "testing the rule" in Gov't regs is that you are considered a liar/cheat first.

So telling them that more than 4 boxes is for personal use - that is an argument you'll have to try and see for yourself....

I'm really hoping that you can bring in what you want and just pay the $10 extra/box...but I doubt it.  

So - what then becomes the limit?  That is really the issue - the regs can't be open to interpretation by the Agent - so why would 10 boxes be "personal consumption" for you and 25 boxes not be "personal consumption" for me?

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, dangolf18 said:

How are they going to prove it's not for personal consumption?

I fear, they are not going to debate with you on that. The "personal consumption" is simply defined by the authorities. And that personal allowance is exactly those 100 cigars in the US (or e.g. just 50 in Europe atm). You may be lucky and get away with more but that's then just luck. Exceeding limits and you are facing the risk of confiscation. If they are really nasty, you may be unlucky and they don't just confiscate the exceeding amount but instead the whole lot. They ARE entitled to do that as a penalty, in particular if not declared in advance!

But as @BarryNY sais, that's what is written, but often officers give some leeway, don't stick to the rules strictly, in particular when there is some new regulation or what seems to be a gray area. But there is a certain risk for sure when exceeding the current limit. In the end Cuban cigars will now not be treated in any way different to NCs, same rules apply.