Question about aging


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Thanks fugu and max! To be fair, I re-read my post 4 times before even posting it but usually there is some errors that sometime makes it difficult to understand.
I spent 5 years reading reviews and cigar forums almost daily so it's about time I write something given all the knowledge I been soaking up here and other places. Thanks again guys!


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Why bother? Yes i will be the black sheep here. Do you like to smoke cigars? Yes, go to next question. Do you currently have personal preferences? Yes, go to next question. Do pref

I kind of think this is something that has perhaps morphed over time. There was a time when Cuban cigars needed down time due to overall production methods, and perhaps to a lesser degree, tobacco str

Before I write my post I would like to add that I know I know I'm not a regular forum member so I understand if my post doesn't hold any weight. I read here pretty regularly but don't have the energy

22 hours ago, mcease022 said:

I still stand by my statement, but I don't disagree with you either ?

21 hours ago, Fugu said:

I do not tend to share that notion either. Yes, there will be inconsistency - but it will be in the young, as well as in the aged box.

It's not my intention to take the topic sideways, but I do enjoy the discussion. I understand that farming shares some basic principles regardless of crop. I agree in theory, but my personal experience with Cuban cigars and good wine producers is that they are not on the same level with regard to consistency of quality. Though tobacco leaves are processed together, they remain individual, while grapes for wine are processed in bulk - but that's another topic.

My only real point is that I have confidence that a good wine maker will produce wines of consistent and predictable quality from year to year, barrel to barrel, case to case, bottle to bottle. I do not have the same confidence in the Cuban cigar industry. This is nothing more than my own personal experience.

 

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1 hour ago, Colt45 said:

My only real point is that I have confidence that a good wine maker will produce wines of consistent and predictable quality from year to year, barrel to barrel, case to case, bottle to bottle. I do not have the same confidence in the Cuban cigar industry. This is nothing more than my own personal experience.

I agree with you - I don't think there is any way to have the same consistency with cigars as there is with wine - simply because there are so many different hands that the tobacco/cigars pass through before the final product is boxed. My only point when comparing aging wine and aging cigars is that both products (wine and cigars) benefit with some age. That being said, you can not make a crap wine good with age and you can't make a crap cigar good with age. But my original point was that aged cigars demand a higher price because there is potential for them to be better and not because it is a made up phenomenon. 

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Brief note added - as some were bringing up an aspect of aging special or expensive sticks only: Not few of the best aged smokes that I've had had been coming from simple (avoid 'cheap' here), smaller-format but solid standard production boxes. Aging performance and price of a cigar don't go hand in hand. Big mistake to miss out on setting some of the "lesser values" aside for a longer nap (of course, only if you are a believer... lol).



Great point. I was at a friends earlier in a week and he brought out a couple of 2006 PLPC's from a cab he recently opened and it was fabulous. I have a cab of TOS FEB 16 HQ that I've had a couple out of and when Rob says Mongrel as a description it is bang on. That isn't a bad thing in fact they were quite good but the one from 2006 was complex, balance and smooth.


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On 17/03/2017 at 9:49 PM, Colt45 said:

My only real point is that I have confidence that a good wine maker will produce wines of consistent and predictable quality from year to year, barrel to barrel, case to case, bottle to bottle.

Really?!! That's probably to be read with an emphasis on "good" (rather "exceptional") producers - or large producers with an industrial product? Or it depends on what one would particularly expect from a wine in terms of consistency...

Just to add a little anecdote on consistency in wine here: Couple of years back, I would regularly buy a South African Bdx-Blend from Vriesenhof, Kallista. A wholesaler near my place always held current and also some back vintages in stock. Liked it, price was always good, so I was a more or less regular buyer. One particular vintage (1995, just checked up) I found so appealing that I bought a second case a couple of weeks after the first.... - The difference between bottles from first and later case was striking! You wouldn't believe it, almost day and night, between "wow" and almost "boring" - same vintage mind you! Charge numbers indicated that they were obviously from two different batches and/or bottling runs.

So, that sort of thing you can already get from bottling alone. And it is not at all a rare occurrence in wine. Add to that the effects of diff. vintages. Then, action of cork (TCA), other wine flaws and faults, and storage do their work as well, so that inter- as well as intra-vintage variability in bottles can be pretty high for the same producer. In particular old bottles, I find, are not much less of a bet than vintage cigars.

I think we have to grant cigars, Cuban or non-Cuban - by the pure nature of the material "tobacco" - to be a tad more variable. Still, that sais not much about aging potential in general, and holds as much as for wine, imho.

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Fellas thank you for all the insight and opinions they've been fantastic and have given me somethings to think about before making my next purchase. Nico awesome post!! Piggy your post really hit home and made a lot of sense to me... smoke what you like and enjoy the experience. I've been purchasing well more than I get a chance to smoke and have some room left to keep expanding my collection. My biggest fear is sitting on a box that looses its flavors and becomes dull. I'm just getting done with only my second HU 46 and it had over a year sitting in my humidor and wasn't nearly as good as my first That first one was so good I wanted to buy right then but now I have second thoughts. I guess I'm gonna keep buying what I like and sample a few new ones along the way.


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10 hours ago, Stick burner said:

My biggest fear is sitting on a box that looses its flavors and becomes dull. I'm just getting done with only my second HU 46 and it had over a year sitting in my humidor and wasn't nearly as good as my first

That exactly is matter of the dreaded variability. Nothing to do with aging.  ;)

Enjoy your ride!

 

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I accumulate based on when maximum consumption will take place (generally 2-8 years) and ensuring that for those who take longer than others, the expected consumption does not exceed what is developing in the pipeline.  I believe cigars with the least ligero have the most fuel to feed microbial systems.  I feel they can undergo change longer, not necessarily better.

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