Recommended humidifier for walk in humidor

[Canoli]

Hello

 

I am in Houston TX and just finished constructing a walk in humi to store cigars and wine. The dimensions are 9' L x 6.5' W x 6.5' T. One wall is exposed brick and all of the other walls and ceiling are insulated with R13 batted insulation and the walls are marine grade finished plywood engineered for concrete forms so it's finished smooth and designed to handle the moisture. I have a 12,000 btu heat pump mini split conditioning the space but need to pick out a humidifier and I will be finished. I have been looking at the centrifugal humidifiers but have not decided if this is the best option for me or not. I am plumbed for water in there so I would prefer a humidifier that can be hooked to a RO system. 

Do you all have any suggestions form me in what type of humidifier to use? 

I put 2 @ small 2" passive vent in the unit to keep the air from getting stale and allow fresh outdoor air in when open and closing the door  

 

Thanks for the help

Canoli

 

 

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I am not an expert, but you will probably want something from aristocrat humidors regarding a humidifier.
Their E700 seems suitable. I'm not sure if they fit into an RO system.

Custom creation's "XL Evaporative Humidifier with Digital Controls" certainly has the auto-fill option, and you can also buy an RO system with it.

[PigFish]

I don't want to write a book here, as it all depends on how 'airtight' your space actually is.

I would use a house wrap (Tyvek) below any sheeting as well as professionally seal the CMU. If the CMU was professionally sealed from the outside prior to being backfilled, that will likely do. CMU will pass a lot of water/water vapor.

The name of the game here is air exchange and water vapor tightness. Some water passage outward is likely desirable as you are likely to experience some high humidity at some point and you don't want mold growth in your building products. It is easy to get mold at lower temperatures as all the natural substances that you will use, will be hygroscopic to some degree.

I must admit... release agents in or on 'form wood' and its toxicity might concern me here some. I think I would want to review the MDS for these products, but that is just me!

About your humidifier. You have several issues. As stated, air exchange, the ambient, and the cooling system. Will you be removing all the water that condenses in the cooling system? If so, over the time it runs, you will need to replace that water. If you want your system stable, it will need to be a 1 to 1 or greater system. As this is a small area, a high output system can soak one area while the air out of the AC is very dry.

I think you should think some on how you are going to control it all. Are you going to deal with 4 or 5 degree swings as AC is utilized in this small space? Are you using a 'native' controller for these appliances or integrating your own?

How you solve problems will largely depend on how your appliances create them!

Advice is great, but the fact is, you won't know how it works until you test it.

I would pick up the control on the AC and short cycle it for very small deviation control. I would protect it from 'harmful' cycles with an anti-short cycle relay or PLC. I would consider multiple sensors and have a PLC analyze the differential on the sensors for proper control. I would use a ceiling fan and run it full time. I would likely run two or more drum type blowers to move both the cold air and the wet air around to enhance the mixture...

I would overthink it, as I am doing now and therefore likely overbuild it... -LOL

There is no way around this other than by testing it, running it and determining if you can live with the swings.

Oh, by the way...! I would store my wine standing! If one leaks, you can kiss your cigars goodbye!

Best of luck on you project... -the Pig

[kinglingcheng]

im about to @  JohnS and PiggyFish , and PiggyFish  is already here to help you haha

[shlomo]

I agree w pig about the testing it part. I bought a $60 humidifier from Costco as a test to see if i can get away without having to spend $500+ on some fancy german unit and that has been perfect for me. Money saved went into a very expensive door.

[Tomasito]

On 5/8/2017 at 1:08 PM, PigFish said:

I don't want to write a book here, as it all depends on how 'airtight' your space actually is.

I would use a house wrap (Tyvek) below any sheeting as well as professionally seal the CMU. If the CMU was professionally sealed from the outside prior to being backfilled, that will likely do. CMU will pass a lot of water/water vapor.

The name of the game here is air exchange and water vapor tightness. Some water passage outward is likely desirable as you are likely to experience some high humidity at some point and you don't want mold growth in your building products. It is easy to get mold at lower temperatures as all the natural substances that you will use, will be hygroscopic to some degree.

 

This is interesting - I was about to use vapor barrier plastic for my closet humidor conversion (ie: in behind greenboard) but then I heard from someone else that Tyvek would be better because it's breathable.  Similar to your comment.

Can I get your final thoughts on if the Tyvek housewrap is the best way to go?  Also, do you think greenboard is good?  Or should i just leave my existing drywall as-is and install the cedar overtop of it.  This would certainly be most cost effective than ripping it down and installing new greenboard.

Note that my walk-in is small (4 x 5 x 9) and i'll be lining it entirely with Spanish cedar, if that makes a difference in your calculus.

[1LegLance]

Local conditions play a HUGE role....

The original post mentions Houston, way way different world than Phoenix Arizona where I am.

Ambient humidity, temp swings day/night, location specific info...

I know it sucks to say this but I would STOP now, and place 2-3 SensorPush units ( $50 temp/hunidity dataloggers) around the room. They store data and give it to you on a phone app, crazy fun to play with and you will want them forever anyway.

I would put one high and low, then side to side....leave each in place for a few days. Then think about annual changes you will see. You don't mention if the walkin is basement, 1st or 2nd floor and what direction the other side of the brick wall faces or if it is interior or exterior. All of that matters.

Unless you really work hard to build an isolated box within the home you have to deal with ambient conditions.

Personally I try to keep in mind that cigars are stronger and more robust than we think, they just sit on the shelves in Cuba :)

[Tomasito]

12 minutes ago, 1LegLance said:

Local conditions play a HUGE role....

The original post mentions Houston, way way different world than Phoenix Arizona where I am.

Ambient humidity, temp swings day/night, location specific info...

I know it sucks to say this but I would STOP now, and place 2-3 SensorPush units ( $50 temp/hunidity dataloggers) around the room. They store data and give it to you on a phone app, crazy fun to play with and you will want them forever anyway.

I would put one high and low, then side to side....leave each in place for a few days. Then think about annual changes you will see. You don't mention if the walkin is basement, 1st or 2nd floor and what direction the other side of the brick wall faces or if it is interior or exterior. All of that matters.

Unless you really work hard to build an isolated box within the home you have to deal with ambient conditions.

Personally I try to keep in mind that cigars are stronger and more robust than we think, they just sit on the shelves in Cuba

Hi.  Yes the walk-in closet is an "isolated box" within the home (ie: no exterior walls).  It's located on the main level of a climate controlled home (68F in the winter and 70F in the summer).  Location is Northeast region so can get humid in summer but only for short periods (and not swampy like Miami!).

Appreciate your follow-up thoughts on Tyvek vs. Vapor Barrier and also whether to simply install the Spanish cedar over the existing drywall or rip it down and install greenboard in its place.