JohnS

Min Ron Nee - Cigar Blends, Storage and other questions

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9 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

am i missing something? surely the bloke is entitled to answer the questions as he sees fit. no obligation on him to do otherwise? loved that first edition - my fave cigar book by a mile and full of information. it would be great to sit and chat with him but not answering questions for a bunch of complete strangers is up to him.

Haha, indeed you are missing something, Ken. First of all, we are not talking about his book (just for the record I got my copy, and credit being due to him), we are talking about THIS interview. And second, not least based on the book and his widely acknowledged expertise, I am expressing my personal feelings of disappointment about THIS interview (in particular, since this has not been a live face-to-face one but one he had time to draw up answers on).

He will have his reasons and is obliged to plain nothing, as he never misses to point out himself, for sure. But - and as one of his respecting readers - I am likewise not obliged to applaud him, am I?

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Thanks for the addition, and for taking the time to get back to him, Nino.

While I am not in agreement with everything of this, still a good addition. But just one aspect:

1 hour ago, nino said:

RH is independent of temperature. This is relative humidity, not absolute humidity. Secondary school basic physics.

I guess he meant to say the action of rH on tobacco is independent of temperature (rH is actually a function of aH, temperature and pressure). But this plain physical state of moisture, rH and aH, within an atmosphere is undisputed and not matter of debate. The point is the relationship between tobacco moisture and rH in response to storage temperature. That equilibrium isn't fix.

Cheers,

Gooey

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... and down the rabbit hole we go! -LOL

I wrote a great deal here, then simply deleted it. I suppose I hang on details. There is no point in it, forcing proxy arguments. So I won't.

As some of you know, I also study 'tobacco.' 

For your enjoyment I submit: Pyrolysis and Tobacco.pdf  (I believe from RJ Reynolds...)

If you are too lazy to read the attachment, this is an excerpt from the 1st paragraph...

Pyrolysis is not smoking . The two procedures do not provide even approximately similar results . Pyrolysis studies do yield useful information, when kept in context ; however, parallels between results of smoke studies and pyrolysis experiments are fortuitous and should not be expected . This has been suggested by many others (1,10,64,122) .

My problem with 'expert analysis' is that it is often buttressed with scientific terms, yet devoid of any 'scientific proof.' I therefore research myself and seek my own data, my own proof. After seeking the proof myself, and upon finding significant 'holes' in arguments, I begin to have doubts

Cigar collectors are not experts at everything! On the flip-side, humidor makers may not be expert at anything... (beat you to it... -LOL) I suggest then, you read everything and carefully analyze what you chose to believe. DON'T BLINDLY FOLLOW ANYONE!!! Look for proof in arguments. It is not unreasonable to ask people to prove claims. This does not mean that they have to. They may not care if you believe them or not. Arrogant as it may appear, I often take this position myself. Yet persuasive arguments, contain some degree of proof. The PDF (above) is an example of how I make a statement. This does not make it right, make me right, it just exemplfies and in some ways rationalizes my position.

The only person you can trust here is you (rhetorically speaking). Follow your own tastes and decide for yourself. Be a leader, not a follower!

If you decide to wrap your cigars in foil, then refrigerate them to 50F and you get mold, don't say that someone did not warn you against it...

-Piggy

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6 hours ago, 99call said:

HHmmm  I think this whole, "this is just one guys opinion" malarky is a bit short sighted. 

Alan Turing worked out mathematical equations to explain patterns seen within nature i.e Zebra stripes. Now, I may disagree with him (which I don't) but critically I think my opinion is of far less value than his, As he had spent a life time working out this stuff, and I have a layman's perspective. 

Sure, what Min Ron Nee has formulated is part research, and part a communication of what he enjoys and found to be good for himself, (which is the subjective part), but why oh why, is it so hard for people to openly just give someone a bit of respect for what they've achieved? 

The idea that there can be recognised authorities on a subject, that most feel to be very personal and subjective, I think really makes some peoples piss boil. but why?

I'm sure the author couldn't care less, if people disagree with him, but to call it a book of pretty pictures, and to be so reductive about his knowledge actually only succeeds in quantifying our knowledge.  I.e if I say, "Michael Jordan knows nothing about basketball", it just means I know even less. 

I read much of MRNs book, and was quite impressed with it, especially the high quality of the photos and attention to detail. However, we are effectively discussing his/our hobby. I don't think any of us knows how he arrived at his methods, or how scientific his methods are. It seems to me from reading what he said that he was offering his opinion about how he prefers to care for his cigars. I'm not sure how you can distill his response as anything beyond anecdotal.

Vaunted as MRN may be as a collector, a hobbyist, he like all of us has his opinion. There is nothing wrong with stating that, and I don't see anything short sighted about it. :looking:

That's just my opinion... of course :daydream:

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2 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

I read much of MRNs book, and was quite impressed with it, especially the high quality of the photos and attention to detail. However, we are effectively discussing his/our hobby. I don't think any of us knows how he arrived at his methods, or how scientific his methods are. It seems to me from reading what he said that he was offering his opinion about how he prefers to care for his cigars. I'm not sure how you can distill his response as anything beyond anecdotal.

Vaunted as MRN may be as a collector, a hobbyist, he like all of us has his opinion. There is nothing wrong with stating that, and I don't see anything short sighted about it. :looking:

That's just my opinion... of course :daydream:

My frustration was based on the fact I think we have two options within out collective passion.

1, Bicker amongst ourselves, in some sort of odd ego based game of who can counter claim, or discredit the next person

or

2, Accept, all the good stuff one another have to offer and build a rich resource for old heads and newbies alike.  

I realise you rarely get progress without ruffling each others feathers and testing theories/practices etc. I just find It bloody depressing, that in discussing someone, who's developed such a wonderful resource for us all, that there seems to be such negativity, and nitpicking.

I do also believe that everyones opinions are valid, I guess I was just suggesting that in order for someone to be right, it doesn't necessarily follow that someone else is wrong.

I think in a round about way, we're on the same hymn sheet

 

 

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I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank many of you for your contributions to this thread in regards to some interesting points, especially to those of you of whom many of our members on FriendsofHabanos esteem in regards to your explicit knowledge.

It's my hope that this thread serves as reference for cigar enthusiasts well into the future.

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We wont tolerate dickheads. 

Discuss, argue with respect, enlighten or go elsewhere. 

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Excellent discussion :thumbsup:

MRN obviously has great passion for the topic, and I respect that.  I would venture to guess that he comes across much different in person than on a computer screen.

I could not be a bigger proponent of science, but to me the enjoyment of cigars seems mostly incompatible with it. 

Store and smoke cigars how you like them :cigar:

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I don’t own the MRN book, but I do own a book of the same caliber and magnitude on the topic of vinyl records specifically relating to funk, soul, jazz, afro, latin, etc. Much like the MRN book it is targeted toward a very niche subset of people and is highly regarded. In many ways it’s a fantastic reference piece with much knowledge to be gleaned, in other ways it’s a fantastic picture book about a hobby. I find this book and MRN’s book the same in those regards. Information and pictures well put together and valuable to those that desire it. 

An important takeaway is that your experience is your own. Whether vinyl records or cigars there is a journey and experience that you gather along the way and decide how to process. There are facts and there are opinions and advocates of both. Listen, learn, test theories, make your path your own, be respectful... The greatest mistake would be to copy the journey of someone at the expense of having your own. 

Thanks for sharing @JohnS and @nino I found it particularly fun that MRN in his further explanations clearly states that there are facts and there are “in my opinions”. More power to those that can distinguish between the two!

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HHmmm  I think this whole, "this is just one guys opinion" malarky is a bit short sighted. 
Alan Turing worked out mathematical equations to explain patterns seen within nature i.e Zebra stripes. Now, I may disagree with him (which I don't) but critically I think my opinion is of far less value than his, As he had spent a life time working out this stuff, and I have a layman's perspective. 
Sure, what Min Ron Nee has formulated is part research, and part a communication of what he enjoys and found to be good for himself, (which is the subjective part), but why oh why, is it so hard for people to openly just give someone a bit of respect for what they've achieved? 
The idea that there can be recognised authorities on a subject, that most feel to be very personal and subjective, I think really makes some peoples piss boil. but why?
I'm sure the author couldn't care less, if people disagree with him, but to call it a book of pretty pictures, and to be so reductive about his knowledge actually only succeeds in quantifying our knowledge.  I.e if I say, "Michael Jordan knows nothing about basketball", it just means I know even less. 
 

Where is the scientific research? By nature, every cigar is unique. Everyone's taste is unique. The environment when smoked varies et cetera.

I respect the man - but that doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with him. I have my own experiences - why are mine less valuable? Because I don't have a budget of millions to spend on cigars and have a book made?
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I see that some posts have been moderated.  I agree with that.  I personally feel very happy to have his book.  It is IMHO a work of art.  It is a source of conversation in my house for all my new cigar friends.  Agree or not with the man, there is no room here to disagree in unprofessional manner. I am glad to see this thread has for the most part been civilized.  Guys, lets keep it going in a civil manner and I look forward to the contibutions.

 

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Let’s not lose sight of the point behind all this discussion: smoking cigars brings us enjoyment. 

If the “demands” of the hobby—I.e. anxiety about storage, cutting, lighting, tasting, aging, collecting, box codes, etc.—devour your simple pleasure of smoking a cigar, then you’ve gone too far. 

A while ago, I made the decision not to stress about these things and to simply enjoy my cigars. I make changes when I don’t enjoy something. I have yet to experience issues with that approach.

That’s not to look down on anyone who enjoys the research, data, monitoring, etc. aspect of cigar collecting. Those things add to some people’s enjoyment. And that’s fantastic. 

We just all do well to remember what it’s really all about. 

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... it is those that take the risk to opine that make this place worth reading. While I don't agree with all, and even think some are daffy, as I am sure some do me, content is not generated by hitting the 'like' button.

Content gets you known, liked and even disliked. I will take it as it comes!

-Piggy

 

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Has he done any interviews or the like in his native language?  That could help clarify some of his statements.

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Very reasonable, perhaps even wise, last two postings Pres and Piggy, which I can only wholeheartedly agree with. If nobody would stick his/her bloody egghead out, this would be a very boring forum! Nobody here is obliged to "believe" (even not to read, if he doesn't give a sh*t), but everybody is encouraged to contribute.

And I'd like to add, I personally still draw a fine line between simple opinion (or even opinionated view) and educated opinion based on a wider personal experience. There is a difference, at least to me.

That being said - I fail to see the drama that others seem to see in this thread (apart from some "redacted" posts).

 

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I disagree with many people on many things. They disagree with me.  My opinions are based upon what I have seen and experienced. Others have seen and experienced the same things and disagree.  
That is what makes intelligent discussion such a glorious thing. 
As for your confusing last line. 
The world is full of people who are "going to do this" or "going to do that".   There is a heightened respect to those who actually "do it". 
No need for fawning or the avoidance of pertinent questions.  Illumination of a concept through exploration  is what makes discussion such a beautiful thing. 
 

Indeed. We don't all have to agree on everything and there is no need to put someone down because they disagree. I think my last sentence was confusing because I was referring to someone's opinion being worth less on account of having a smaller budget from the previous sentence - I guess I shouldn't type on my phone.

In any case - thanks to Nino for reaching out to his friend and clarifying some items. Kudos to MRN for going through the work involved in creating one (or soon to be several) books and for doing all his experiments. I am doing my own experiments with my own conclusions. I believe both of us enjoy our cigars and that's what this hobby is all about :)
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7 hours ago, shaffer22 said:

Let’s not lose sight of the point behind all this discussion: smoking cigars brings us enjoyment. 

If the “demands” of the hobby—I.e. anxiety about storage, cutting, lighting, tasting, aging, collecting, box codes, etc.—devour your simple pleasure of smoking a cigar, then you’ve gone too far. 

A while ago, I made the decision not to stress about these things and to simply enjoy my cigars. I make changes when I don’t enjoy something. I have yet to experience issues with that approach.

That’s not to look down on anyone who enjoys the research, data, monitoring, etc. aspect of cigar collecting. Those things add to some people’s enjoyment. And that’s fantastic. 

We just all do well to remember what it’s really all about. 

Well said and I could not agree more that the primary objective of smoking cigars is enjoyment.

Having smoked many cigars with MRN over meals, drinks and conversations I dare to affirm that this is his opinion as well.

Personally, I made the decision to enjoy cigars 50 years ago when, at the age of 14 in Spain, I returned weak & pale from using the bathroom after smoking my first cigar ... :-)

 

5 hours ago, zeedubbya said:


As a side note I just want to say@nino is a true legend and an asset to us all here. Lots of curious people wondering about a somewhat cryptic interview and Nino just makes a call and gets some clarification. Thank you for this Nino. Your legendary status was elevated even more today sir.
 


Thank you for the kind words, I like the KISS principle and I thought it would serve well here to clarifiy and/or expand on comments.

I must thank MRN for his time, his openness and for always being approachable and willing to share his vast knowledge.
Do ze
多謝

   
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Hello again FOH, nice to be back after all the years. I read the questions and the answers, but not the rest of the thread. All I can say is that it appears that the questions weren't intellectually stimulating enough to get the good Doctor to opine fully. 

Thanks @nino for clarifying on the tobacco part, which is what I had assumed. I have so many specific follow up questions now...you know me. LOL

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