australia's most shameful day

[GasGuy82]

@Ken Gargett

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, GasGuy82 said:

@Ken Gargett

excellent. more seriously, think of all the poor young kids with smith jerseys. 

[ayepatz]

So Smith permanently stripped of the captaincy, and sent home with Warner and Bancroft, while Lehmann is in the clear, according to The Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/steve-smith-david-warner-and-cameron-bancroft-sent-home-in-disgrace-fxnkzn2kb?shareToken=ee42cbe45731d30af43fb438b79a10da

[JohnS]

Below is the 'crux' of what you need to know...

1. David Warner and Steve Smith are banned from playing domestic and international cricket for 12 months, Bancroft for 9 months.

2. Smith and Bancroft will not be considered for leadership positions for a further 12 months after that, Warner will never be considered for a leadership position again.

3. Smith and Warner will not be involved in IPL 2018.

Shane Warne, through comments on Facebook, suggested the bans were too harsh. I am inclined to agree, but part of me thinks that the whole incident belies the culture and ethos of the Australian cricket team, at the moment. In this matter, I've tried to avoid what former cricketers/current journalists have had to say on the matter.

What I do know, from sources involved in cricket in my hometown, is that David Warner is the real problem here and Steve Smith and Cameron Bancroft were foolish and naive to be caught up in it. David Warner displayed symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder at school, according to a teacher friend of mine who taught him, and when he played cricket as a junior in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney, he was very, very good at the game and at being annoying and a complicit and nasty sledger. He will never play for Australia again.

On the other hand, Steve Smith played for Sutherland District, he went to school about 5 to 10 km from where I live and I've spoken to his coaches who coached him as a junior. Basically, he is genuinely a good guy who gets on well with others and is very respectful. Unfortunately, he is not a leader and in this instance he has shown himself to be naive. Maybe his emotions and the mental strain of the current South African tour got to him? He will definitely play for Australia again, but he will never captain again. Cameron Bancroft comes from Western Australia, so I'm unfamiliar with his upbringing and background. It will take some dislodging, on his behalf, to remove the new openers Australia will now employ, because I don't see these new guys wasting their opportunities.

I can't see Australia winning the 4th test, but at least the ridiculous behaviour that has dominated this series will now end. I think players like Pat Cummins will be targeted by Cricket Australia as the role model of the game in this country. I think in the short-term Australia will be affected by the loss of Warner and Smith but in the long-term the team will play better because of these strong sanctions.

[Gooie]

This is what happens when you let NSW run cricket

[JohnS]

2 hours ago, Gooie said:

This is what happens when you let NSW run cricket

In a way, you aren't wrong!

[ayepatz]

4 hours ago, JohnS said:

Below is the 'crux' of what you need to know...

1. David Warner and Steve Smith are banned from playing domestic and international cricket for 12 months, Bancroft for 9 months.

2. Smith and Bancroft will not be considered for leadership positions for a further 12 months after that, Warner will never be considered for a leadership position again.

3. Smith and Warner will not be involved in IPL 2018.

Shane Warne, through comments on Facebook, suggested the bans were too harsh. I am inclined to agree, but part of me thinks that the whole incident belies the culture and ethos of the Australian cricket team, at the moment. In this matter, I've tried to avoid what former cricketers/current journalists have had to say on the matter.

What I do know, from sources involved in cricket in my hometown, is that David Warner is the real problem here and Steve Smith and Cameron Bancroft were foolish and naive to be caught up in it. David Warner displayed symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder at school, according to a teacher friend of mine who taught him, and when he played cricket as a junior in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney, he was very, very good at the game and at being annoying and a complicit and nasty sledger. He will never play for Australia again.

On the other hand, Steve Smith played for Sutherland District, he went to school about 5 to 10 km from where I live and I've spoken to his coaches who coached him as a junior. Basically, he is genuinely a good guy who gets on well with others and is very respectful. Unfortunately, he is not a leader and in this instance he has shown himself to be naive. Maybe his emotions and the mental strain of the current South African tour got to him? He will definitely play for Australia again, but he will never captain again. Cameron Bancroft comes from Western Australia, so I'm unfamiliar with his upbringing and background. It will take some dislodging, on his behalf, to remove the new openers Australia will now employ, because I don't see these new guys wasting their opportunities.

I can't see Australia winning the 4th test, but at least the ridiculous behaviour that has dominated this series will now end. I think players like Pat Cummins will be targeted by Cricket Australia as the role model of the game in this country. I think in the short-term Australia will be affected by the loss of Warner and Smith but in the long-term the team will play better because of these strong sanctions.

Interesting, John. I, too, am surprised at the harshness of the penalties.

We all know that this stuff goes on, but this incident just seems to have caught some sort of Zeitgeist in Australia.

There seems to be an attitude, not of simple disappointment, but one approaching national betrayal.

[JohnS]

There's some further news today, from trusted and respected Cricket commentator Jim Maxwell, that Steve Smith had control of all his players except David Warner, who thought Smith was beneath him as Warner was 3 years his senior. Maxwell surmises that Smith's lack of assertiveness in countering Warner's ball-tampering plan led to these events.

It only solidifies my projections of these players' futures. Warner will be banished, Smith will be forgiven. And tomorrow is Good Friday. How timely!

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

Interesting, John. I, too, am surprised at the harshness of the penalties.

We all know that this stuff goes on, but this incident just seems to have caught some sort of Zeitgeist in Australia.

There seems to be an attitude, not of simple disappointment, but one approaching national betrayal.

no, i know that it can be portrayed as a bit of rubbing tape (i now notice you have deleted that from your post so perhaps we agree?).

i see the magellan financial have dumped CA from a three year sponsorship. the "media expert" on tv last night said that this will cost CA between 250 and 300 mill in the next tv deal. even if the bloke is massively out, lets say just 100 mill, that is a massive amount of money lost to the game. lost to ground roots cricket, to promoting the game v competing sports, to better coverage. a disaster for australian cricket. so 12 months sabatical seems a bit light on in that case. 

when it happened, i thought 12 months for smith - didn't know warner's involvement at that stage - and anyone else. 6 months bancroft. and none of them ever allowed to captain australia again. but i thought it would be so much less. turns out that for once, i was reasonably close. these guys have done immeasurable damage to the game, the team, the country. for everyone suggesting there has been an overreaction, look at the reaction that has come from young kids right up to the PM. it matters to australians. 

[Ken Gargett]

5 minutes ago, JohnS said:

There's some further news today, from trusted and respected Cricket commentator Jim Maxwell, that Steve Smith had control of all his players except David Warner, who thought Smith was beneath him as Warner was 3 years his senior. Maxwell surmises that Smith's lack of assertiveness in countering Warner's ball-tampering plan led to these events.

It only solidifies my projections of these players' futures. Warner will be banished, Smith will be forgiven. And tomorrow is Good Friday. How timely!

so we can crucify them?

[ayepatz]

1 minute ago, Ken Gargett said:

no, i know that it can be portrayed as a bit of rubbing tape (i now notice you have deleted that from your post so perhaps we agree?).

i see the magellan financial have dumped CA from a three year sponsorship. the "media expert" on tv last night said that this will cost CA between 250 and 300 mill in the next tv deal. even if the bloke is massively out, lets say just 100 mill, that is a massive amount of money lost to the game. lost to ground roots cricket, to promoting the game v competing sports, to better coverage. a disaster for australian cricket. so 12 months sabatical seems a bit light on in that case. 

when it happened, i thought 12 months for smith - didn't know warner's involvement at that stage - and anyone else. 6 months bancroft. and none of them ever allowed to captain australia again. but i thought it would be so much less. turns out that for once, i was reasonably close. these guys have done immeasurable damage to the game, the team, the country. for everyone suggesting there has been an overreaction, look at the reaction that has come from young kids right up to the PM. it matters to australians. 

I deleted the facetious comment because I know that you and many of the lads on here feel quite deeply about this, and I wanted to respect that.

When Atherton got caught tampering, if memory serves, he got a slap on the wrist, and a two grand fine. I expected a short ban and a fine for Warner, Smith and Bancroft, but not as much they have been given.

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, ayepatz said:

I deleted the facetious comment because I know that you and many of the lads on here feel quite deeply about this, and I wanted to respect that.

When Atherton got caught tampering, if memory serves, he got a slap on the wrist, and a two grand fine. I expected a short ban and a fine for Warner, Smith and Bancroft, but not as much they have been given.

with these guys, be as sarcastic, insulting, facetious as you like. you cannot offend them enough. or the act itself.

i understand the two schools of thought re punishment. delighted they went the tough road. it will make it very interesting when the next non-aussie is caught. if say south africa or pakistan or whoever just went with the minimal ICC penalties, it would speak volumes. 

what has really pissed me off is the extraordinary aussie bashing from nations who have players who have done the same and much worse. nz and south africa as well as some of our sub-continent brethren have guys done for match fixing. and yet they are now all holier-than-thou. 

[ayepatz]

1 minute ago, Ken Gargett said:

with these guys, be as sarcastic, insulting, facetious as you like. you cannot offend them enough. or the act itself.

i understand the two schools of thought re punishment. delighted they went the tough road. it will make it very interesting when the next non-aussie is caught. if say south africa or pakistan or whoever just went with the minimal ICC penalties, it would speak volumes. 

what has really pissed me off is the extraordinary aussie bashing from nations who have players who have done the same and much worse. nz and south africa as well as some of our sub-continent brethren have guys done for match fixing. and yet they are now all holier-than-thou. 

Haha, true that. It will be interesting to see if other nations follow CA’s lead with harsher punishments, when they get nabbed, and we all know it’s inevitable, for ball tampering.

By the way, Atherton’s defence of himself (while he’s been standing in aloof judgement of the whole affair) is that he asked Gooch if he should resign and Gooch said no. So that means he acted with decency. Apparently.

It’s another double facepalm moment.

[Fuzz]

I disagree. The penalties are not harsh enough, especially for Warner, if he was the main instigator. I disagree John. The penalties are not harsh enough, especially for Warner, if he was the main instigator.

If they have done immeasurable damage to the game, then a 12 mth ban is nothing. You want to send a message? Life time bans. If a life time ban is good enough for a drug cheat, then I don't see why not here. And don't tell me a drug cheat and a ball tamperer are two different things. Both did something knowingly illegal to gain an advantage over the other team. Don't care if it is prevalent in the game, you still cheated and got caught.

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, ayepatz said:

Haha, true that. It will be interesting to see if other nations follow CA’s lead with harsher punishments, when they get nabbed, and we all know it’s inevitable, for ball tampering.

By the way, Atherton’s defence of himself (while he’s been standing in aloof judgement of the whole affair) is that he asked Gooch if he should resign and Gooch said no. So that means he acted with decency. Apparently.

It’s another double facepalm moment.

yes, run and ask the bloke who was key to destroying his national team so he could rush off to apartheid south africa to grab the cash. one horror asks another. i'm even starting to feel sorry for smith to be dumped in with all these guys. i think that needs an entire team with head in hands. 

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I disagree. The penalties are not harsh enough, especially for Warner, if he was the main instigator. I disagree John. The penalties are not harsh enough, especially for Warner, if he was the main instigator.

If they have done immeasurable damage to the game, then a 12 mth ban is nothing. You want to send a message? Life time bans. If a life time ban is good enough for a drug cheat, then I don't see why not here. And don't tell me a drug cheat and a ball tamperer are two different things. Both did something knowingly illegal to gain an advantage over the other team. Don't care if it is prevalent in the game, you still cheated and got caught.

fuzz, do drug cheats get life time bans? 

or do they just continue under another name so they can play in russia?

but seriously, the ICC needs to make these penalties so much harsher. but then certain countries believe that this is tantamount to targeting them and whinge and expect the penalties not to apply. 

[Fuzz]

10 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

fuzz, do drug cheats get life time bans? 

 

Sureyya Ayhan, Roberto Barbi, Randy Barnes, Lyudmyla Blonska, Lada Chernova, Vivian Chukwuemeka, Ben Johnson, Steve Mullings, Tezzhan Naimova, Josephine Oniya, Olga Tereshkova, just to name a few. Plus there are a bunch of coaches with life time bans for trafficking, possession, administration, etc.

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

so we can crucify them?

Haha...no I was thinking more of the theme of forgiveness (well at least for Smith)! 

41 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I disagree. The penalties are not harsh enough, especially for Warner, if he was the main instigator. I disagree John. The penalties are not harsh enough, especially for Warner, if he was the main instigator.

If they have done immeasurable damage to the game, then a 12 mth ban is nothing. You want to send a message? Life time bans. If a life time ban is good enough for a drug cheat, then I don't see why not here. And don't tell me a drug cheat and a ball tamperer are two different things. Both did something knowingly illegal to gain an advantage over the other team. Don't care if it is prevalent in the game, you still cheated and got caught.

I think Warner's punishment will be more than just the ban in the long run. The ostracism of Warner by the other players occurred, it seems in the light of Jim Maxwell's reporting on the circumstances which led to this event today, because of Warner's hubris and his disrespect for Smith's authority. To me, this was always going to come to a 'head'. 

In time, we may be even grateful because a guy like Renshaw will probably blossom more in this corrected environment (of the Australian cricket team) than if he was playing and opening the batting with Warner.

[Ken Gargett]

36 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Sureyya Ayhan, Roberto Barbi, Randy Barnes, Lyudmyla Blonska, Lada Chernova, Vivian Chukwuemeka, Ben Johnson, Steve Mullings, Tezzhan Naimova, Josephine Oniya, Olga Tereshkova, just to name a few. Plus there are a bunch of coaches with life time bans for trafficking, possession, administration, etc.

are they real people or did your keyboard explode?

[Fuzz]

All real people. Surely you recognise Ben Johnson?

[Ken Gargett]

16 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Haha...no I was thinking more of the theme of forgiveness (well at least for Smith)! 

I think Warner's punishment will be more than just the ban in the long run. The ostracism of Warner by the other players occurred, it seems in the light of Jim Maxwell's reporting on the circumstances which led to this event today, because of Warner's hubris and his disrespect for Smith's authority. To me, this was always going to come to a 'head'. 

In time, we may be even grateful because a guy like Renshaw will probably blossom more in this corrected environment (of the Australian cricket team) than if he was playing and opening the batting with Warner.

john, it always concerned me that renshaw would be partnering warner. delighted that is not happening. warner can sit back and count his millions but you just know that a bloke like him will squander them. every chance that he'll be back at woollies stocking the shelves. 

i know people are different but you get named aussie captain. you draw the line. you get warner on board or he goes. it was up to smith to stand up to him. you think ian chappell would have stood for this? bill lawry? border? ponting? clarke? taylor? steve waugh? 

i remember a friend who knew them both very well telling me how when tony greig was appointed england captain, boycott was livid and was doing his best tony abbott behind the scenes. greig called him in for a meeting and effectively gave him a choice. get on board or get out of the way and i will back you to be next captain of england when i go (even though older, it was always likely boycott would hang around for many years) or we go to war and i am captain and therefore have the backing of the board et al. you will not win. not sure boycott ever really got on board but it helped deflate the issue. 

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, Fuzz said:

All real people. Surely you recognise Ben Johnson?

yes, of course. but he wasn't banned for life first up. it took 3-4 offences over many years. 

[Fuzz]

True. But eventually a line has to be drawn in the sand; this far, no further! Penalties for cheating should be so crippling that the mere thought of it would stop a player cold. I now look upon our cricket team with the same disdain I have for soccer players who take a dive.

[Ken Gargett]

fuzz, agree. those who think that even after a year smith can come back and normal service will be resumed are delusional. he is now to be forecer remembered as a cheat.

 

i have done another post on this for our sports section. so perhaps hijacking my own thread.