the cricket debacle


Ken Gargett

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FOH Sports – the cricket debacle

I know that there is another thread (started by me) on this (so presumably I can’t be accused of thread stealing), but it has progressed and seemed worth a look in our Sports section.

There is apparently, I've not seen it, a viral email (meme?) going about which shows the famous pic from the movie ‘Ghost’. Instead of Demi M with Patrick S standing behind her, looking on lovingly, we have Davey Warner guiding the hands of Cameron Bancroft. And if anyone else felt their sphincter slam shut at that image, you are not on your pat.

For once, I have been following (commenting) on some other sites about this as is such a huge issue. Or in the eyes of a myopic few, not a big deal at all. Storm in a teacup.

Seriously? Even if you think it is a minor blip and everyone does it, we have had a Prime Minister comment adversely on it. When did that last happen here? Let’s ignore Kiwi Piggy for a bit but we’ll get there.

Storm in a teacup? Not if it draws comments from both the PM and the Foreign Minister. Not when you read letters from young kids who just do not understand why their heroes would ever do this. If a 9-year-old knows something is wrong, then you have to wonder why grown men seem to find it so hard to understand.

But let’s follow the money. Not significant? LG has dumped Davey Grub. Weetbix has dumped Steve Slimy. So too, the Commonwealth Bank. I know that many are saying that Steve Smith is a nice guy and was misled by Davey Grub but –

(a)  He is a grown man.

(b)  He is/was captain of Australia.

(c)  He has played a great many tests all around the world.

(d)  He was involved in deliberate cheating

(e)  And now we find that even in the press conference where people are claiming how honourable he was by admitting it, it turns out he was lying and continuing to mislead by claiming it was just a piece of tape. We now know it was sandpaper (loved the South African kid who asked for Nathan Lyon’s autograph and then offered him a piece of sandpaper for him to write on).

In other words, Steve Slimy deliberately lied, after being involved in cheating. So not a good guy.

For me, the punishment is fair, for all of them. I thought something like this would be fair when it occurred, but I never thought CA would suddenly find something resembling a backbone and implement them. Next would be for CA to look at themselves. Sutherland, Howard (and has there ever been a sports administrator where crap follows a man as much as it does him, from sport to sport), the High Performance or High Integrity or whatever the position is and whoever has it. Yes, it is to be renamed the Australian Cricket Oxymoron Position.

Lehmann? Like almost everyone, I assumed he was involved until it emerged that Warner was the man behind things. Then this made sense. Davey Grub would be so stupid and arrogant as to assume he could get away with it and not need to refer it to Lehmann. I'm even surprised he mentioned it to Smith.

For those who think that this is some sort of minor transgression, in other words that the deliberate cheating, covering up, lying by the Australian cricket captain, vice-captain et al, is a minor transgression, lord help you. I am staggered by the number who do think that.

Read some of the letters by little kids who are devastated by this. Their heroes are now shown up as cheats and liars. That hurts.

And it goes right through the community - both the PM and Foreign Minister making comment. How often does that happen? Shows the impact on the Australian community.

Now, if we return to following the money. Look at the personal sponsorships that have gone. Now we have supporters of Australian cricket abandoning them. Magellan for one. Do we really think someone else will jump in and give CA the same dosh? Anyone lining up? This is money that could be used to promote the game, provide better coverage, better coaching, support local grade teams or more importantly, for grass roots cricket. It could have gone to the kids. And that is just the start.

A coincidence that 9 has jumped on the rights for tennis, cricket's major competition over the summer?

A "media expert" on tv last night suggested that this will, in the renewal of rights, cost CA between 250 and 300 million. I have no idea if that is even close, but say it is only 100 mill. Money lost to cricket by the actions of Dave Grub and Steve Slimy. 12 months hardly seems excessive for the damage they have caused.

The silliest thing about all this was some dill saying it was not as bad as the Underarm. Spare me. That is truly ludicrous. Not on the same planet. The underarm might get 10/10 for utter stupidity but smith, warner and bancroft (possibly others, but we should wait until evidence emerges) conspired to deliberately cheat, to commit acts they knew were illegal. They set out to cheat the opposition, the fans and, although it was obvious that they had little idea of the severity of their actions, this nation – call it hyperbole if you like but then take a look at the reaction across the country from little kids to the PM.
I have no issue with a year’s suspension and at that stage, they are free to return to the team, although neither smith nor warner should ever be allowed to captain the team again. Sure, they might be eligible (well, fortunately Warner never will be) but they have proved themselves unfit. What message would reinstating smith send to every other nation, to every kid playing cricket? It might be harsh but if he had not cheated, and lied, no discussion.

As for the fact that there has been tampering for years – I think the first accusations were in the 1920s – being late to the party does not absolve us. Just because your mate robs a bank does not make it okay for you to do so as well. Perhaps heavier penalties on the earlier offences might have helped stop this latest farce.
 

Let’s be honest about the underarm – “directly influenced the result of a match” was one claim. Really? Anyone honestly believe that a tailender was going to walk out on to the MCG for one of his very few games at the time and put his first ball over the fence (bigger boundaries in those days, too). A bloke who I believe had never hit a six in his career (career strike rate in the 30s – extras score faster). A bloke who had totalled around fifty runs in the past 5-6 years. That tells you that it was monumentally stupid act, although legal. Even if by some miracle he managed it, that gave them a tie at best (I was always of the understanding that in those days a tie was awarded to the side which had lost the least number of wickets, which was Australia – though I might be wrong on that).


The only reason the underarm is not some long-forgotten trivia question these days is thanks to the extraordinary hypocrisy of New Zealand. They have bleated about it for years and yet they revelled in every dodgy play by McCaw that broke the laws of rugby. Around the time of the underarm, Andy Haden, the all black second rower, published his autobiography in which he described how the plan was often for him to dive out of lineouts to gain a penalty (one of which won the last game in a grand slam tour and gave them that honour – by cheating. Not that much different from what smith et al has just done). And in one of those lovely pieces irony, the bloke who kicked the penalty to win, thanks to New Zealand cheating, was none other than McKechnie, the same tailender who people seem to think was suddenly about to become a superbat and hit the six.

I've pointed that out to kiwis for years, but they conveniently ignore it. To be honest, they should get down on their knees every morning and thank us for the underarm as it dragged them out of their fifties stupor and gave them a reason to live – to whinge about Australia.

Smith and his cronies have disgraced themselves, Australian cricket and this nation. They should be dealt with accordingly. To suggest this is a lesser offence than the underarm is so ridiculous it is beyond contemplation.

Grub, Slimy and the idiot all got exactly what they deserved. The fact that we have not howled down the walls and insisted we need higher standards from our cricketers (sportsmen and women) in the past means that we have probably also got exactly what we deserved. Sadly.

Fingers crossed things improve.

Stop laughing.

KBG

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Here’s a link to the other thread:-

 

For those living under a rock, who may somehow have missed this, there is already a Wikipedia entry on this, which, in itself, speaks volumes about the scale of the scandal:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Australian_ball-tampering_scandal

 

It’s also worth reading the page on the history of ball-tampering:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_tampering

 

 

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Good read Ken, I agree with almost all you have written. The underam incident is a completely different matter, indeed when I heard the press conference the other day I was astonished to hear Smith state that the recent incident "goes against the spirit of the game"!!! What an idiot, it goes against the laws of the sport not the spirit you tool, the underarm delivery was indeed against the spirit of the game not (at that time) the laws. For me this showed that Smith whilst complicit is also simply a fool, its not uncommon for sportsmen in this day and age to grow up in a cosseted world where ability is all that matters and basic intelligence, common decency, empathy and understanding of real life is neither taught, valued or encouraged, just look at the raft of idiot footballers in the premier league (particularly many of the current and former English ones, Gerrard/Carragher/Rooney/Vardy et al).

What I find most astonishing is that so quickly it has become apparent that Warner is at the root of the problem.  CA know that this individual is (and has been) a constant bad apple throughout his career, that he has been tolerated and indeed been honored with the vice captaincy smacks of a weak board pandering to a star player (of course this is not unique to CA). Why did no-one have the balls to stand up and say enough is enough before it got to this stage. I have mentioned before that I know well Joe Root and the incident in the bar in Birmingham with Warner was something I heard about from a very close and trusted source and Warner was well our of order and all knew it at the time and effectively did nothing, you reap what you sow.

The state of the game in general is suffering from incompetent leadership at all board levels in each country not just in Australia, from the corrupt BCCI, the shambles that is the West Indian Board and not forgetting the ECB who's chase for the £'s has meant that only those with satellite subscriptions can watch any England live games and the scheduling of this coming summer meaning no test matches will be played from 5th June-1st August, the middle of the summer when all the kids are on holiday. When they complain that test cricket is dying on its arse and that grass roots participation from kids is at its lowest level then they have themselves to blame, shame on you ECB!

I think the traditions, history and nature of cricket in general have helped to a greater extent shelter the game from the win at all costs attitude of some of the other professional sports, yes it is a tough, uncompromising contest between teams who are paid to win. There will always be problem players, borderline practices, straining of the rules and its naive to think otherwise, but with better and stronger leadership from the top of all countries who play the game and a willingness to put cricket before the individual from the authorities I think the sport I love can still flourish. In this respect I applaud the actions of CA in terms of the punishments they have dealt out and I hope that they reflect on the cause of this issue to avoid a repeat. I hope also that the other governing boards get their acts together and start to put cricket first before politics, power and money, I'm hopeful but not overly optimistic.

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1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Good read Ken, I agree with almost all you have written. The underam incident is a completely different matter, indeed when I heard the press conference the other day I was astonished to hear Smith state that the recent incident "goes against the spirit of the game"!!! What an idiot, it goes against the laws of the sport not the spirit you tool, the underarm delivery was indeed against the spirit of the game not (at that time) the laws. For me this showed that Smith whilst complicit is also simply a fool, its not uncommon for sportsmen in this day and age to grow up in a cosseted world where ability is all that matters and basic intelligence, common decency, empathy and understanding of real life is neither taught, valued or encouraged, just look at the raft of idiot footballers in the premier league (particularly many of the current and former English ones, Gerrard/Carragher/Rooney/Vardy et al).

What I find most astonishing is that so quickly it has become apparent that Warner is at the root of the problem.  CA know that this individual is (and has been) a constant bad apple throughout his career, that he has been tolerated and indeed been honored with the vice captaincy smacks of a weak board pandering to a star player (of course this is not unique to CA). Why did no-one have the balls to stand up and say enough is enough before it got to this stage. I have mentioned before that I know well Joe Root and the incident in the bar in Birmingham with Warner was something I heard about from a very close and trusted source and Warner was well our of order and all knew it at the time and effectively did nothing, you reap what you sow.

The state of the game in general is suffering from incompetent leadership at all board levels in each country not just in Australia, from the corrupt BCCI, the shambles that is the West Indian Board and not forgetting the ECB who's chase for the £'s has meant that only those with satellite subscriptions can watch any England live games and the scheduling of this coming summer meaning no test matches will be played from 5th June-1st August, the middle of the summer when all the kids are on holiday. When they complain that test cricket is dying on its arse and that grass roots participation from kids is at its lowest level then they have themselves to blame, shame on you ECB!

I think the traditions, history and nature of cricket in general have helped to a greater extent shelter the game from the win at all costs attitude of some of the other professional sports, yes it is a tough, uncompromising contest between teams who are paid to win. There will always be problem players, borderline practices, straining of the rules and its naive to think otherwise, but with better and stronger leadership from the top of all countries who play the game and a willingness to put cricket before the individual from the authorities I think the sport I love can still flourish. In this respect I applaud the actions of CA in terms of the punishments they have dealt out and I hope that they reflect on the cause of this issue to avoid a repeat. I hope also that the other governing boards get their acts together and start to put cricket first before politics, power and money, I'm hopeful but not overly optimistic.

good thoughts.

a real lesson that administrators cannot give in to morons like warner, no matter what their talent. it will always go bad. CA caved to him, would not do anything to reign him in. disaster follows. careers destroyed.

no doubt warner would have been trying to start something (although, and with the greatest respect to root), i have always thought that the fact that warner biffed root when broad was in the same room suggested that rot must be an awful bloke. if you had to hit someone, surely broad? 

but root does come across as not a bad bloke. he has developed a seriously worrying problem of giving away his wicket after 50. which merely reminds me how much we'll miss the batting of smith. what a senseless waste. 

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I suspect the hobbit Warner couldn’t reach Broad. I do know that Rooty is as decent, respectful and courteous a guy as you could wish to meet and has been since he was a little nipper, Broad on the other hand ....

Im sure that giving him the captaincy has affected his conversion rate. I don’t get the theory that the best player should be captain, look at some of the great captains who were not the teams superstar  

A positive from this must be that Renshaw will get another crack at opening (and without the poison dwarf as his partner). Still baffelled by why he was dropped, looks a natural test 1 or 2.  

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11 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I suspect the hobbit Warner couldn’t reach Broad. I do know that Rooty is as decent, respectful and courteous a guy as you could wish to meet and has been since he was a little nipper, Broad on the other hand ....

Im sure that giving him the captaincy has affected his conversion rate. I don’t get the theory that the best player should be captain, look at some of the great captains who were not the teams superstar  

A positive from this must be that Renshaw will get another crack at opening (and without the poison dwarf as his partner). Still baffelled by why he was dropped, looks a natural test 1 or 2.  

could not agree more about renshaw (and had they had the sense to stick with him, he would hopefully have told davey grub where to go and none of this would ever have happened). born to play test cricket. really tough to drag him out of here on no warning, fly a squillion hours and then jump into a test. and then face some of the best quicks in the world on their home pitches. can't expect too much but hopefully doesn't stuff him about too much. 

the best player captain is very much an aussie thing. always has been. usually works as they have the support and respect of the team. though usually only if a bowler. warnie and mcgrath spring to mind. be interesting to see if tim paine keeps it. as a keeper/opener/captain, at a massively lower level, i never found a problem doing all. mush preferred to be part of what was happening than not. might be different for a test series though. 

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You are right Ken. When I think about it the captain of Aus has almost always been their best/most consistent player with as you say a couple of notable exceptions. In England we have followers this trend in the last couple of decades with some disasterous results, not least Flintoff and KP (also who can forget the debarcle that was Bothams captaincy admittedly against an unbeatable WI team). 

At club level I captained a very young (and very short) Root in his first senior game. I asked him to bowl one over near the end of their innings so our quicks could change ends and the clown batsman laughed out loud and made it clear at the top of his voice how pleased he would be to pick up some easy runs at his expense (not in these exact words I assure you as it was Yorkshire league cricket). Needless to say Rooty’s first ball in senior cricket took the Neanderthals middle stump out of the ground. The pleasure I took in escorting the knuckledragger back to the hutch whilst vocally pointing out the age and height of the “little prick of a schoolboy” who had bowled him will stay with me forever  

 

 

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9 hours ago, Webbo said:

You are right Ken. When I think about it the captain of Aus has almost always been their best/most consistent player with as you say a couple of notable exceptions. In England we have followers this trend in the last couple of decades with some disasterous results, not least Flintoff and KP (also who can forget the debarcle that was Bothams captaincy admittedly against an unbeatable WI team). 

perhaps the ultimate example with botham was the 81 series. i think he'd captained england 10-12 times and not won a game. england down 1-0 after two tests and finally botham was sacked. people remember 81 as botham's series but at one stage, it looked like it might be remembered for all the wrong reasons. back came brearley - we used to ridicule his ability but certainly not his captaincy. england win 3-1. still hurts. 

and the fact that our moronic selectors didn't pick doug walters, who'd been in cracking form, still rankles. 

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Australia has been fortunate to have a long history of captains who have been successful cricketers, easily within the best three or four in the team based on their performances. They've also been hesitant to allow bowlers, all-rounders or wicket-keepers captain long-term, with the exception of Monty Noble (in the 1910s) and Ian Johnson (in the 1950s). This has seen players such as Rod Marsh unfortunately miss out on captaining Australia full-time, at a time when he felt he was a better option than Kim Hughes, which I would agree with. Other exceptional players missed out on Australian captaincy due to their outspoken personality, which is a shame too, as Keith Miller and Shane Warne would have made great captains too.

Tim Paine has captained Australia at the junior level, but long-term who will replace Steve Smith now? Who will be named as his vice-captain. Personally, I would be tempted to mentor Pat Cummins in the role, the only concern would be his history of injuries.

And still the ball-tampering saga is like the 'gift that keeps on giving' (but in a negative sense). Darren Lehmann's tearful resignation was as equally hard to watch, for me, as Smith's press conference was. It made me think how imperative it is for James Sutherland to resign his position now. It's no coincidence that Sutherland defended his position in his last press conference.

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The current and unprecedented ball-tampering, cheating scandal in South Africa has ironically created a situation whereby the Australians' 'line in the sand' policy prior to the series will now be enacted through their hypocritical actions. The fact is, every, and I mean every, nation at the international cricket level has technically employed a myriad of methods to tamper the ball to aid reverse-swing in the past. Now this will cease (which nation would be willing to use even a sugar-mint to shine the ball after these events?). The result, in the short and mid-term, may see an imbalance in the contest between bat and ball, where bowlers will need to work harder to get wickets, and this may be addressed in the future to even things.

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Now that Darren Lehmann has resigned who will be responsible to coach Australia and enact a reformed culture change to its cricket?

Justin Langer

The Western Australian has long been seen as a likely successor to Lehmann. Most expected the baton to be passed after the 2019 Ashes, but the ball-tampering scandal has thrown any carefully-laid plans out the window. Langer coached the national side when Lehmann sat out an ODI tour of the West Indies in 2016, while he has mentored Western Australia and Perth Scorchers since 2012. The former Test opener once described the role of coach - when it comes to managing behaviour - as a mix of policeman, headmaster, parent and mate. The Scorchers have won three BBL titles under Langer's watch while WA have twice finished as Sheffield Shield runners-up.

Ricky Ponting

Ponting has previously ruled out taking on a full-time international role but has made no secret of his desire to get involved with the national side. The Tasmanian has served as an assistant with the T20 side in last summer's series against Sri Lanka as well the recent tri-series involving New Zealand and England. While both roles were temporary, he's stated he's open to the possibility of one day taking on a coaching position with Australia, if Cricket Australia decided a standalone T20 coach is needed. The current crisis may see the job split in two with a red-ball coach and white-ball coach appointed separately, an idea Lehmann flagged last year. Ponting, Australia's all-time leading run scorer, will return to the Indian Premier League for the upcoming season as coach of the Delhi Daredevils, having led the Mumbai Indians to the 2015 title. 

Jason Gillespie

The ex-Test paceman coached the Adelaide Strikers to their maiden KFC Big Bash League title earlier this year, while he has also served as an assistant with the national T20 side in the past. Gillespie, who played alongside Lehmann at both South Australia and Australia, recently insisted he has every intention to honour a three-year deal with English county side Sussex. Lehmann's resignation may force a rethink from Gillespie, who went close before ultimately losing to Trevor Bayliss in the race to be England's new coach on the eve of the 2015 Ashes.

Trevor Bayliss

The Australian is contracted to coach England until 2019, but could come up in discussions - especially if there is a white-ball gig to fill. England were smashed 4-0 in the recent Ashes, but belted Australia 4-1 in the ensuing ODI series and are set to be World Cup favourites when they host the tournament next year. The Goulburn-raised coach is highly respected by many Australians in the Test XI, having mentored NSW and the Sydney Sixers in the past.

David Saker 

The side's bowling mentor filled in as head coach during an ODI tour of India last year. While Saker, who coached Victoria to the 2016-17 Sheffield Shield title in his sole season at the helm, lacks the profile of some of the other names on this list, he has previously made it clear he would one day love to take the reins. The former first-class paceman has however conceded his lack of international experience could hinder his ambitions. "I know not playing cricket for Australia makes it a little bit harder," Saker said last year. "But I think I’ve been involved in Test cricket, one-day cricket and Twenty20 cricket a lot. I’ve seen a lot of cricket, so I think I could do the job without a doubt."

Brad Haddin

The former wicketkeeper has been Australia's fielding coach for a tick over six months. Haddin has almost certainly not served a long enough apprenticeship to get the top job, but his coaching skills are well regarded by many. The New South Welshman has also served as an assistant with Australia A sides and has worked with the country's most promising gloveman at the Bupa National Cricket Centre in recent years.

Chris Rogers

Another long-shot, Rogers was recently confirmed as Matthew Elliott's successor as the high-performance coach tasked with guiding the best young batting talent in the country. Noted for his sharp cricket mind and unique view of the game, the 40-year-old has dipped his toes in the coaching waters over the past 18 months both in the United Kingdom, where he's worked with county sides Somerset and Gloucestershire, and at home with various Cricket Australia tour match and underage sides. 

 

Source: https://www.cricket.com.au/news/australia-coach-contenders-lehmann-resignation-langer-ponting-gillespie-bayliss-saker-haddin-rogers/2018-03-30

 

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11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

perhaps the ultimate example with botham was the 81 series. i think he'd captained england 10-12 times and not won a game. england down 1-0 after two tests and finally botham was sacked. people remember 81 as botham's series but at one stage, it looked like it might be remembered for all the wrong reasons. back came brearley - we used to ridicule his ability but certainly not his captaincy. england win 3-1. still hurts.

The greatest series I have ever seen, even better for me than the 2005 ashes. Botham, Willis and Brearley were incredible and all this against an Aussie team that featured some of the finest cricketers ever. As a 16 year old watching the contest between Botham and Lilllee remains possibly my most enduring sporting moment. Whats interesting is that everyone remembers these as Botham's Ashes and rightly so but focus on the games he had with the bat at Headingley and Old Trafford  (the Manchester innings by far the better, the one at Leeds was really just slogging that came off). For me his 5-11 in 14 overs in the 4th test at Edgbaston was the key, Aus needed only around 160 in the 4th innings to win and take a 1-2 lead in the series. Botham's bowling that innings turned the game and the series.

Why did Walters not get picked?

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Former English table tennis champion, Matthew Syed, now a Times columnist, has waded into the debate with this today. Thought it might prove an interesting talking point (if the link works!).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dear-australia-thats-enough-now-this-was-ball-tampering-not-murder-nhflx25g6?shareToken=228eb1270db75587d3b455ef332288ab

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11 hours ago, ayepatz said:

Former English table tennis champion, Matthew Syed, now a Times columnist, has waded into the debate with this today. Thought it might prove an interesting talking point (if the link works!).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dear-australia-thats-enough-now-this-was-ball-tampering-not-murder-nhflx25g6?shareToken=228eb1270db75587d3b455ef332288ab

i'd suggest that this is yet another person who does not get it. the penalty is not just for some spur of the moment ball tampering, as bad as that is (though the penalty would have been so much less, possibly just a fine). it was a considered plan to cheat the opposition and because of that, the game and the fans. it was deliberate cheating bringing the game into disrepute. 

and then they lied. and lied. only when they had nowhere to go did they (we hope) confess. this bloke should stick to ping pong because he just does not understand. 

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1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

i'd suggest that this is yet another person who does not get it. the penalty is not just for some spur of the moment ball tampering, as bad as that is (though the penalty would have been so much less, possibly just a fine). it was a considered plan to cheat the opposition and because of that, the game and the fans. it was deliberate cheating bringing the game into disrepute. 

and then they lied. and lied. only when they had nowhere to go did they (we hope) confess. this bloke should stick to ping pong because he just does not understand. 

I thought that might be your response.???

I wonder if there’s another factor here, Ken, and that’s the generational thing. Good sportsmanship, to me, seems to be something of a lost art. Bear with me here.

I’m 44 now, and my Dad was an older dad - 46 when I was born. My Grandad lived with us when I was growing up, and he would have been 69 when I was born, in 1973.

Both men instilled in me their belief that things were only worth doing if you did them well. That went for everything from bow-plating ocean liners for John Brown’s Shipbuilders of Clydebank (my Grandad worked on both HMS Hood and the Queen Mary), to upholding the law (my Dad was the Superintendent of the Marine Division in City of Glasgow Police), to being a professional musician (which is what they both encouraged me to be). Needless to say, this work ethic also applied to sport.

My Grandad, in his youth, had played left-wing for Clydebank FC, and was a colossal Rangers fan. He and his son (my Uncle David, a Captain in the Merchant Marine) would always go to Ibrox to watch Rangers together when I was kid. If Rangers were playing away we’d go and watch Clydebank instead. (My Dad was a rugby, cricket and boxing man, and I’d get to enjoy those sports with him.)

All three of these remarkable men believed that winning wasn’t enough. You had to win well. You had to win with class. And no matter what happened out on the field of play, you had to leave with your head held high, shake your opposite number by the hand (even if he’d broken your nose), and enjoy a pint with him in the bar afterwards.

In short, you had to be a gentleman.

I’m sure there are many younger fellas out there who would openly scoff at this notion.

It’s maybe time that professional sportsmen all across the board, not just in cricket, were reminded of this.

It’s often said that the the phrase, “It’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game” is the cry of a loser.

I completely disagree. How you go about winning is vital.

It’s winning well that is the mark of true champions.

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47 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

I thought that might be your response.???

I wonder if there’s another factor here, Ken, and that’s the generational thing. Good sportsmanship, to me, seems to be something of a lost art. Bear with me here.

I’m 44 now, and my Dad was an older dad - 46 when I was born. My Grandad lived with us when I was growing up, and he would have been 69 when I was born, in 1973.

Both men instilled in me their belief that things were only worth doing if you did them well. That went for everything from bow-plating ocean liners for John Brown’s Shipbuilders of Clydebank (my Grandad worked on both HMS Hood and the Queen Mary), to upholding the law (my Dad was the Superintendent of the Marine Division in City of Glasgow Police), to being a professional musician (which is what they both encouraged me to be). Needless to say, this work ethic also applied to sport.

My Grandad, in his youth, had played left-wing for Clydebank FC, and was a colossal Rangers fan. He and his son (my Uncle David, a Captain in the Merchant Marine) would always go to Ibrox to watch Rangers together when I was kid. If Rangers were playing away we’d go and watch Clydebank instead. (My Dad was a rugby, cricket and boxing man, and I’d get to enjoy those sports with him.)

All three of these remarkable men believed that winning wasn’t enough. You had to win well. You had to win with class. And no matter what happened out on the field of play, you had to leave with your head held high, shake your opposite number by the hand (even if he’d broken your nose), and enjoy a pint with him in the bar afterwards.

In short, you had to be a gentleman.

I’m sure there are many younger fellas out there who would openly scoff at this notion.

It’s maybe time that professional sportsmen all across the board, not just in cricket, were reminded of this.

It’s often said that the the phrase, “It’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game” is the cry of a loser.

I completely disagree. How you go about winning is vital.

It’s winning well that is the mark of true champions.

agree with that. the media pressure to win has certainly placed expectations on people that were not there. i don't think it is all sportsmen or young people but certainly somewhat different attitudes. my old man would be so angry at these guys. he would seriously want them out of the game forever. as would most of his old colleagues. a lot of these older guys also assumed/believed that the english way was always the correct way and should be held up as an example to us all - though lord knows why given things like bodyline. 

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16 hours ago, Webbo said:

Why did Walters not get picked?

In 1981 Doug Walters was approaching 36 years of age. When World Series Cricket broke away from the establishment, Walters was one of the key signings but inexplicably he suffered a terrible loss of form. Subsequently, he struggled to make the starting World Series Cricket Australian XI during the 77/78 and 78/79 seasons.

Furthermore, in four previous Ashes tours (1968, 1972, 1975 and 1977) Walters had never scored a century and had developed a reputation for struggling on English wickets. However, in 1980/81 he had rediscovered a new maturity to his game which saw him return to outstanding form against New Zealand and India that year in Australia. Most importantly, it became a lot harder to get his wicket, it is no coincidence that he remained 19 not out in Australia's 83 all out against India in Melbourne on a shocking and low-bouncing pitch. Walters batted a bit over two hours for this innings. 

I believe it was his last test innings, but it shouldn't have been. With Greg Chappell withdrawing from the '81 tour due to family and business reasons, Walters was really needed, moreso than Trevor Chappell or Martin Kent.

I could make a similar argument why Australia needed Mike Hussey and not Simon Katich during the 2005 Ashes series at no.6. But that may be a story saved for another time.

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5 minutes ago, JohnS said:

In 1981 Doug Walters was approaching 36 years of age. When World Series Cricket broke away from the establishment, Walters was one of the key signings but inexplicably he suffered a terrible loss of form. Subsequently, he struggled to make the starting World Series Cricket Australian XI during the 77/78 and 78/79 seasons.

Furthermore, in four previous Ashes tours (1968, 1972, 1975 and 1977) Walters had never scored a century and had developed a reputation for struggling on English wickets. However, in 1980/81 he had rediscovered a new maturity to his game which saw him return to outstanding form against New Zealand and India that year in Australia. Most importantly, it became a lot harder to get his wicket, it is no coincidence that he remained 19 not out in Australia's 83 all out against India in Melbourne on a shocking and low-bouncing pitch. Walters batted a bit over two hours for this innings. 

I believe it was his last test innings, but it shouldn't have been. With Greg Chappell withdrawing from the '81 tour due to family and business reasons, Walters was really needed, moreso than Trevor Chappell or Martin Kent.

I could make a similar argument why Australia needed Mike Hussey and not Simon Katich during the 2005 Ashes series at no.6. But that may be a story saved for another time.

agreed. the odd thing about Walters in England was that despite his struggles in the previous tests, i have read numerous reports that two of his innings v county sides were two of the best innings seen in many years. i think he reeled off around 150 both times. mind you, when he got going, there was no one better. no one was a bigger hero to me as a kid. got to caddy for him once on a rest day (remember them). a real thrill. 

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2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

agree with that. the media pressure to win has certainly placed expectations on people that were not there. i don't think it is all sportsmen or young people but certainly somewhat different attitudes. my old man would be so angry at these guys. he would seriously want them out of the game forever. as would most of his old colleagues. a lot of these older guys also assumed/believed that the english way was always the correct way and should be held up as an example to us all - though lord knows why given things like bodyline. 

 I disagree that it is media pressure. Money is the problem. There is way too much money in sport. People will do all sorts of stupid things for money, including selling one's integrity away.

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2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

 I disagree that it is media pressure. Money is the problem. There is way too much money in sport. People will do all sorts of stupid things for money, including selling one's integrity away.

Indeed. That’s what’s behind the “win at all costs” mentality, in my opinion.

That, and a culture of disrespect.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Am I the only one who found the Warner "press conference" bizarre? 

basically - i'm here to take full responsibility and answer all your questions, as long as the answer to those questions is that i am here to take full responsibility and answer all your questions, as long as the answer  ...

not sure he really understands the concept of full responsibility. 

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1 minute ago, Ken Gargett said:

basically - i'm here to take full responsibility and answer all your questions, as long as the answer to those questions is that i am here to take full responsibility and answer all your questions, as long as the answer  ...

not sure he really understands the concept of full responsibility. 

Exactly this. What was the point? Who is advising him? He is also not helped by his personality, he comes over as just false. The whole thing very strange and seemed to serve no purpose at all (unless it covered some legal obligations ?)

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