Por Larrañaga: a tale of growth and maturation.


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53 minutes ago, ChefBoyRG54 said:

EML14>AME13
Enjoy your evening.

Oh, no, he di'n't!

Actually, I'd have to agree. Based upon my PLMC stock (9 boxes), AME seemed like freak boxes - lots of pepper and tannic youth to smooth out, whereas the EML I've been dipping into are some of the best PLMC I've had. AME seem to have scores of potential, but need lots of age. EML are the type of boxes that make me think HSA is cooking the tobacco to make it better younger (opinion only, no fact that I know of).

12 and 13 were magical years for rolling/boxing, for sure. I've taken a slight break from buying oodles of boxes to whittle down my collection for the 18/19 stock.

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On 4/16/2018 at 6:16 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I would agree with the descriptions except that PLPs have been smoking on par with the PLMCs lately. Maybe the best value in CCs today. 

Agree with this. Never count out the PLP.  Recent runs of these have been very good and very consistent from what I have seen. Might not be the PLPC after 10 years, but for 2-3$ per stick, you can't really go wrong, nor feel that bad if there are a couple duds.  

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50 minutes ago, earthson said:

AME seemed like freak boxes - lots of pepper and tannic youth to smooth out, whereas the EML I've been dipping into are some of the best PLMC I've had. AME seem to have scores of potential, but need lots of age...

Well, EML until about FEB14 still had same feel as AME13's, but one could start noticing inconsistencies approaching into ABR14, then completely nosedived (again, my opinion). Similar was found in LGC when #2's from MUR MAR-OCT13, then becoming rather unsmokeable in ULA FEB14. Also, just for added context, AME13 PL's were reminiscent of '07 Magnificos and '11 Regalias in youth. 

As the old smokers have taught me when I was starting, you have to train your palate to look past the ammonia (structure). Then, you can feel the body and fruit. From there, you must discern if the fruit will outlast or reach balance with the structure (time, years, decades), while providing appropriate accompaniment of body (unctuousness). I do understand that this requires education, context, and experience! Anyway, give the aforementioned PL's a try, and remember that this is all supposed to be about discovery~~~

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1 hour ago, mk05 said:

this is all supposed to be about discovery

Give or take some years of hiatus, I've been at this since 95. For me, it's all about pleasure in the moment. Through that, I often discover new things, and that is very exciting, but not a necessity for me to enjoy the pleasure of the moment.

Just in other aspects of life, I will not judge a sunflower by the fact that it doesn't make a good lilac. It's a sunflower. I will judge it for the joy that it brings me in the moment, not whether I think that its offspring 20 generations from now will bring me joy, or whether I think I will enjoy the texture of its seed, but whether its mere existence affects my soul in that very moment.

Cigars for me are an allegory for the ephemeral nature of emotion and sensation. In one moment, a piece of leaf that grew from soil, developed by billions of years of decomposition of organic matter, then was fermented and cured to form a combustible material, burned, made smoke, tickled my tastebuds, sent a fleeting pulse of electricity flitting through my brain that I construed as emotional contact with the external world, then...

It was gone forever. It is nothing more than a memory.

 

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10 minutes ago, cfc1016 said:

For me, it's all about pleasure in the moment....I will judge it for the joy that it brings me in the moment, not whether I think that its offspring 20 generations from now will bring me joy, or whether I think I will enjoy the texture of its seed, but whether its mere existence affects my soul in that very moment.

I guess I am lost. your own subject of the thread was: Por Larranaga: a tale of growth and maturation

We all love cigars and smoking them in that moment, yes. Nevertheless, I thought we were to discuss Por Larranaga, and how it may grow and mature, possibly given the vintages therein. 

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Just now, mk05 said:

I guess I am lost. your own subject of the thread was: Por Larranaga: a tale of growth and maturation

We all love cigars and smoking them in that moment, yes. Nevertheless, I thought we were to discuss Por Larranaga, and how it may grow and mature, possibly given the vintages therein. 

Nope. I was talking about how the plp, plmc, and plpc seem to collectively tell the progressive story of one singular character of tobacco. plp=child/adolescent; plmc=young man; plpc=mature adult.

It had nothing to do with aging or vintages. It was merely a poetic waxing on the intertwined character of those three vitolas of the marca.

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45 minutes ago, cfc1016 said:

Nope. I was talking about how the plp, plmc, and plpc seem to collectively tell the progressive story of one singular character of tobacco. plp=child/adolescent; plmc=young man; plpc=mature adult.

It had nothing to do with aging or vintages. It was merely a poetic waxing on the intertwined character of those three vitolas of the marca.

OK - merely responded to previous comments on ageing potential and perplexing dead spots of PL. Hopefully, others found the tangential discussion interesting and somewhat relevant to growth and maturation of PL.

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Just a food for thought before I disappear again.
It really depends on how you view Cuban cigars. Personally, I think cigars are very similar to wine. A lot of people you meet will disagree that vintages make a difference, and that depends on their motives, set of experiences, taste, and other qualitative factors. 
I have found PL's post 2013 to be completely unsmokeable, as with almost all Cuban cigars. To me, the raw tobacco is very acrid, sour - reminiscent of underfermented tobacco - sometimes dusty and lacking flavor due to too much poor priming like uno y medio and libre de pie (perfect example, MUO14 Cohiba Robusto).
Granted, China is still learning about Cuban cigars, although seemingly not fast enough - or hasn't learned any lessons from its mistakes in entering Burgundy/Bordeaux. Nevertheless, their skyrocketing demand should not deter you from asking the "why" and "how" of Cuban cigar culture, learning about this lifestyle properly and correctly. Without context, you will never understand anything, make informed decisions about your purchases, or provide qualified assertions. 
So that said, I think you guys should try AT LEAST OEB06-07 and AME12-13 PLPC before opining about "being able to smoke young PLPC," "this is a mongrel," or etc. Without having context of those recent productions, how would you be able to produce a baseline? It would be like starting to drink Burgunday in 2014 and claiming 2011-2013 were amazing years for Burgundy, needing 10 years to mature. Furthermore, who is saying "needs 5 years," "needs 10 years?" PLPC from 2014-2017 does not need any years - these should be smoked as soon as possible before they fossilize into petrified wood. Alternatively, AME13 should be aged for a while since they are truly "mongrels." 
Context is superbly necessary when qualifying. Anyway, back to lurking...

You mentioned that post 2013 PL are unsmokeable to you, being acrid and sour. Do you think that these vintages will improve with age and smooth out? Have you tried 14-15 PLPC stock recently? Has it improved since its youth? Just trying to understand your opinion if you feel that the 12-13 was great out of the gate and new stock needs more age. Or if you think the post 13-17 has no hope.
I have some 16 PL, picadores and PLPC. The picadores need time down for sure. I have seen a little improvement but I am hopeful.


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16 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I actually prefer both the PLP and PLMC more than the PLPC when young. I don't think you're missing anything not having the PLPC. Long term, the PLPC is the big kahuna. But that's 5 years at least. And the PLMC is no slouch when aged and also gets a more rounded a bit quicker than the PLPC--around 2-3 years earlier than the PLPC. 

Interesting, good to know! I'll have to see if i can get my hands on a couple of singles of some PLPCs to see if i want to take the plunge on a cab...

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15 hours ago, mk05 said:

Just a food for thought before I disappear again. :)

It really depends on how you view Cuban cigars. Personally, I think cigars are very similar to wine. A lot of people you meet will disagree that vintages make a difference, and that depends on their motives, set of experiences, taste, and other qualitative factors. 

I have found PL's post 2013 to be completely unsmokeable, as with almost all Cuban cigars. To me, the raw tobacco is very acrid, sour - reminiscent of underfermented tobacco - sometimes dusty and lacking flavor due to too much poor priming like uno y medio and libre de pie (perfect example, MUO14 Cohiba Robusto).

Granted, China is still learning about Cuban cigars, although seemingly not fast enough - or hasn't learned any lessons from its mistakes in entering Burgundy/Bordeaux. Nevertheless, their skyrocketing demand should not deter you from asking the "why" and "how" of Cuban cigar culture, learning about this lifestyle properly and correctly. Without context, you will never understand anything, make informed decisions about your purchases, or provide qualified assertions. 

So that said, I think you guys should try AT LEAST OEB06-07 and AME12-13 PLPC before opining about "being able to smoke young PLPC," "this is a mongrel," or etc. Without having context of those recent productions, how would you be able to produce a baseline? It would be like starting to drink Burgunday in 2014 and claiming 2011-2013 were amazing years for Burgundy, needing 10 years to mature. Furthermore, who is saying "needs 5 years," "needs 10 years?" PLPC from 2014-2017 does not need any years - these should be smoked as soon as possible before they fossilize into petrified wood. Alternatively, AME13 should be aged for a while since they are truly "mongrels." 

Context is superbly necessary when qualifying. Anyway, back to lurking...

The "04 PLPCs I had were bitter, peppery and strong for years.  I had two cabs. I was smoking ERDM PCs while I rested the PLs.  Sampling a young one on impulse I remember smoking it in the morning as I drove to a job. I had a king size cigar buzz when I got there. And I don't mean a good one. Those cigars were bombs. It took years for them to even out to my taste. "My taste" being the operative words. I never got much of the caramel thing but I think they are great cigars when they get to the 4 year mark and they can be sublime with more time.

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4 hours ago, havanaclub said:


You mentioned that post 2013 PL are unsmokeable to you, being acrid and sour. Do you think that these vintages will improve with age and smooth out? Have you tried 14-15 PLPC stock recently? Has it improved since its youth? Just trying to understand your opinion if you feel that the 12-13 was great out of the gate and new stock needs more age. Or if you think the post 13-17 has no hope.

Surely, any cigar will be more pleasant to smoke as the ammonia dissipates - this is what maturation is. However, like wine, there needs to be underlying fruit to withstand the body and structure over time. I don't believe the 2014-2017 has any fruit. So for me, there is no hope after EML FEB14.

2 hours ago, joeypots said:

The "04 PLPCs I had were bitter, peppery and strong for years.  I had two cabs. I was smoking ERDM PCs while I rested the PLs.  Sampling a young one on impulse I remember smoking it in the morning as I drove to a job. I had a king size cigar buzz when I got there. And I don't mean a good one. Those cigars were bombs. It took years for them to even out to my taste. "My taste" being the operative words. I never got much of the caramel thing but I think they are great cigars when they get to the 4 year mark and they can be sublime with more time.

I recall '04s. I remember they had body, but not a lot of fruit. EAR03 was far richer by comparison, while EAR02 had bit more structure still. PL had shining years from FJN05-OEB07. So much so, that Habanos made special cigars for them. Some of them, do know things - they're not all incompetent. 

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On 18.4.2018 at 12:47 AM, mk05 said:

I have found PL's post 2013 to be completely unsmokeable, as with almost all Cuban cigars. To me, the raw tobacco is very acrid, sour - reminiscent of underfermented tobacco -

Are we talking PL or production in general?

On 18.4.2018 at 12:57 AM, mk05 said:

No good tobacco found in 2013-2016, and that information was available via Granma

Could you enlighten us - where?

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19 hours ago, cfc1016 said:

Nope. I was talking about how the plp, plmc, and plpc seem to collectively tell the progressive story of one singular character of tobacco. plp=child/adolescent; plmc=young man; plpc=mature adult.

Ah, the riddle of the Sphinx..."What is the creature that walks on four legs in the morning, two legs at noon and three in the evening?"

If PLP is a toddler, PLMC is a young man, PLPC is a mature adult, where do the 2006 Lonsdales fit in? Manchild, in between PLMC and PLPC? If they don't draw, are they useful as walking sticks in the evening?

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12 minutes ago, PartagasIV said:

Ah, the riddle of the Sphinx..."What is the creature that walks on four legs in the morning, two legs at noon and three in the evening?"

If PLP is a toddler, PLMC is a young man, PLPC is a mature adult, where do the 2006 Lonsdales fit in? Manchild, in between PLMC and PLPC? If they don't draw, are they useful as walking sticks in the evening?

I do not have the precursory information to accurately address this quandary. 

Send me some 2006 lonsdales and I’ll let you know... ? ??

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The last great cigars were made prior to 2006 when fermentation changes were introduced. 

It was the end of the world.  Cuban cigars would no longer age as they once did.  The tell tale sign of the change was that cuban cigars were now smokeable young. 

There were Nostradamuses everywhere. They are around to this very day. 

They were very very wrong :rotfl:

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4 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

The last great cigars were made prior to 2006 when fermentation changes were introduced. 

It was the end of the world.  Cuban cigars would no longer age as they once did.  The tell tale sign of the change was that cuban cigars were now smokeable young. 

There were Nostradamuses everywhere. They are around to this very day. 

They were very very wrong :rotfl:

Ties back to my comment about ephemera. 

As cerebrally as some people (...) approach this issue, it’s JUST TOBACCO. 

This is hedonism, not particle physics.  There is NO WRONG WAY to enjoy tobacco, despite the ardent assertions of some people (...). 

If the person smoking the cigar likes it, it’s a good cigar. Vintages, blends, boxcodes, underlying qualities be damned. 

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