Ken Gargett

Pappy Van Winkle prices

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i was surprised to see any for sale in australia - i suspect it was a bottle or two only and largely sold out. i have cut/paste the prices. this is a retailer normally considered the cheapest in australia. 

i'm interested in thoughts from those more familiar with this bourbon on how the prices compare. and no, i am not thinking of buying any. 

also added a buffalo trace, for comparison. 

 

Old Rip Van Winkle 12 Year Old Special Reserve 750mL

 

$720.00 per bottle

 

 

Pappy Van Winkle’s 23 Year Old Kentucky Straight Bourbon 750mL

 

$2,800.00 per bottle

 

 

Pappy Van Winkle's15 Year Old Kentucky Straight Bourbon 750mL

 

$1,000.00 per bottle

Out of stock

 

Pappy Van Winkle’s 20 Year Old Kentucky Straight Bourbon 750mL

 

$1,700.00 per bottle

 

 

 

Buffalo TraceGeorge T Stagg Bourbon 750mL

 

$459.99 per bottle

$1,366.20 per case of 3

$455.40 in any six

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Not worth it!!! Get some Blantons, 4 Roses single barrel or Woodford Reserve and save the money for more cigars. 

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as i mentioned, not looking to buy. fan of blantons and also woodford. i've found four roses harder to find but always keep an eye out. enjoy jeffersons as well. 

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I had a Pappy last year, but didnt know what version/age, bt wasn't impressed, definitely not enough to pay the uncharge.. Because it doest come that high from the warehouse!

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I toured buffalo trace this year on a bourbon trip to KY.   Saw the barrels of Pappy sitting in the warehouse.   As for the price, I would never pay that.   There are way too many good bourbons on the market at reasonable prices.   While in KY, we drank willett and wathons, both were excellent and around 45/bottle.   The willett bottle is really cool.   Can't find either of those in PA. 

 

By the way, on our trip we went to Woodford Reserve and mixed our own barrel for a club I belong to.   180 - 1 liter bottles of our own special blend.   Should be delivered in a month or so.   Hope the members like what we selected.  I was a great experience.   I can still smell those oak barrels. 

 

 

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Yep.  Bourbon prices are through the roof even if you can find stuff.  I love some of this stuff but am not paying the ridiculous prices.  :forkyou:

I am quite happy with Buffalo Trace or Bulleit for daily happy hours.  When I want higher octane for mixing I go with whatever I can find at what I consider decent prices.  Like, Four Roses Single Barrel or Knob Creek 120, Noah's Mill, etc.  These are easier to find and within reason.  :2thumbs:

 

 

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I miss the days of old  - 15 years ago or more before the world woke up you could buy great American whiskey/bourbon for more reasonable prices. There were so many wonderful offerings under $50. Pappy 20 or 23 was still a premium at $150 or $200 a bottle. The old Stizel Weller stuff is all but gone or bringing huge $$$. Now everything  is insane. MSRP has gone up but the retailers are marking up the limited releases up as much as 10x based on demand. The problems IMHO are because people have more $$$ than common sense. The reality is if you want the limited releases put up or shut up. Japanese whiskey has increased substantially as well. Just recently Suntory announced they ran out of Hibiki 17 & Hakashu 12. Another feeding frenzy to snap up any bottles that were on the shelves. No end in sight with the lack of aged offerrings & continued increase in demand. Oh well... it only takes another 10 to 25 years to age superior bourbon. Imagine what it is going to cost in the year 2038...

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I had some van winkle 10 and 15 at a bar in NYC recently.  I have to say it was some of the best I've ever tasted.  The 10 was $20 per shot, and the 15 was $25. I had originally ordered the Weller 12 which is hard to find around here, and the owner gave me a free pour just to compare it to the Van Winkle. While good, it was not in the same league.  At those shot prices, a bottle of 10 would come to about $335 and a bottle of 15 to about $415.   So cheaper to go that bar.    

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To answer the question Ken... they're a little more than US secondary market pricing, but not by much. It's pretty nuts. 

Stagg is very nice, but Stagg Jr is almost as good for one eighth the price. If you have the chance to pick that one up, well worth it! 

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Those prices are secondary market level, and not MSRP. Pappy 10 year MSRP is 60 and 23 year is 280. So you can see, someone is making a huge profit at the listed prices you found. George t stagg was 95 per bottle this year on my state, I know because I bought 3 of them. I won a bottle of pappy 12 in the lottery and traded it for something like 12 bottles of other great bourbon. I have only tried pappy 12, and the first time I tried it I was blown away. The second time, same bar and same bottle, it was almost undrinkable. Not sure what happened, but it was not what I remembered it being. George t stagg is probably my current best I've ever had a bottle of, and William larue Weller is the best I've ever sampled. Eh Taylor is also very good, and very over priced outside of MSRP. The Woodford limited releases I've tried have been really good. And it's nuts going to Buffalo Trace and seeing their locked up collection of super premium bottles knowing they aren't for sale haha. 5384fe50669dbbc5ee3d96d8bba90576.jpg5c24190cc373ec611df394590f83d379.jpgf4e57134fb4e4c7fc6a9b3a626311d33.jpg10b6b9a5373f506e4c065f88ae61966d.jpg89cfacc335b4bd273e97700cdc230668.jpg8a188caf7371e608b257b43a36276802.jpgf0c76860e5bf71c38e8a171b876309fa.jpg186210c7b270120ed28b95526d3b88b6.jpge32a83918ccf91afc153f57beb22e1e3.jpg

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Those prices are higher than US secondary. Anywhere from 10%-50% more. The Stagg is the closest.

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Don't waste your time or money chasing the "dream"...get you a couple of bottles of Weller, E.H. Taylor, and Blanton's and enjoy!

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Weller is just as hard to find as pappy, at least for me it is. It's marked up just as bad too when I can find it outside of the stores.

Don't waste your time or money chasing the "dream"...get you a couple of bottles of Weller, E.H. Taylor, and Blanton's and enjoy!


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1 hour ago, SMQQKIN said:

I miss the days of old  - 15 years ago or more before the world woke up you could buy great American whiskey/bourbon for more reasonable prices. There were so many wonderful offerings under $50. Pappy 20 or 23 was still a premium at $150 or $200 a bottle. The old Stizel Weller stuff is all but gone or bringing huge $$$. Now everything  is insane. MSRP has gone up but the retailers are marking up the limited releases up as much as 10x based on demand. The problems IMHO are because people have more $$$ than common sense. The reality is if you want the limited releases put up or shut up. Japanese whiskey has increased substantially as well. Just recently Suntory announced they ran out of Hibiki 17 & Hakashu 12. Another feeding frenzy to snap up any bottles that were on the shelves. No end in sight with the lack of aged offerrings & continued increase in demand. Oh well... it only takes another 10 to 25 years to age superior bourbon. Imagine what it is going to cost in the year 2038...

I miss those days too!  Unreal how the markets have changed. I could go into a store and pick up a case of Buffalo Trace no issue, now when it comes in they limit it to 1  bottle per person.

I would add the following to the list of good bourbons for not the high price point, all are prices I've paid in Texas:

1792 - 1.75mL ~$50

Buffalo Trace - the regular brand ~ $45 for 1.75mL

Russell's 10 Yr - 750mL ~ $35 per bottle

J.Henry & Sons Wisconsin Straight Bourbon Whiskey - 750mL ~ $35

Basil Hayden Kentucky Straight Bourbon - 750mL ~ $35

Balcones Texas Blue Corn Bourbon - splurge 750mL ~$65

Russell's Reserve Single Barrel Bourbon - splurge 750mL ~ $50

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Bourbon and cigars are going in the same direction. As long as people taste with their wallet, the trend will continue.

 

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I've got some bridges and unicorn tears to sell you at the prices people are paying for Pappy.  Not to mention how easy it is to fake Bourbon...  Not worth it.  

A decade ago I could be Pappy 20 for $100 and I was on the fence at that price (bought a bottle for a friend's birthday).    I had trouble finding it a value at $100, but at the time it was like the only 20 year Bourbon on the market...

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Of all the Pappy's, the 12 Yr. Lot B remains my favorite.  The others are wonderful, but even the 23Yr doesn't match up to the 12 according to my tastebuds.  I would still wince and buy the 12 at $500/bottle, but it's $700-$750 everywhere I look in the States now.  Was it worth $500?  Is Opus One worth $450?  At some point we all reach a no-go point but Pappy's is a worthy splurge for me.  Not the $2800/bottle 23Yr, but certainly the 12Yr.  I think the market is distorted now less by the aficionados and more by the posers looking to flaunt and impress. 

I hear that Old Weller has the exact same mash bill?  Been meaning to try it.  Otherwise, Blanton's is a worthy replacement as is Eagle Rare, Four Roses, Angel's Envy.

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Until they ran out of the tanked stuff recently, the Van Winkle Rye was the true star of the lineup. The 15 year is the sweet spot for the bourbon line.

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Yep, way overblown  (a statement coming from a guy who has paid several thousand bucks for a bottle of Scotch. Too many times...).

With wine and cigars you at least stand to benefit, taste wise, from time. With spirits, the flavors in the bottle have zero chance of improving. They are what they were on bottling day. So that bottle of wine or those cigars that you bought 15 years ago should taste significantly better,  if you bought the right stuff. The Pappy will not have improved in that time. 

First it was Scotch.

Then cigars 

Now Bourbon. 

The death of anything is for it to get popular. 

Big Al 

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38 minutes ago, Toast & Taste said:

Yep, way overblown  (a statement coming from a guy who has paid several thousand bucks for a bottle of Scotch. Too many times...).

With wine and cigars you at least stand to benefit, taste wise, from time. With spirits, the flavors in the bottle have zero chance of improving. They are what they were on bottling day. So that bottle of wine or those cigars that you bought 15 years ago should taste significantly better,  if you bought the right stuff. The Pappy will not have improved in that time. 

First it was Scotch.

Then cigars 

Now Bourbon. 

The death of anything is for it to get popular. 

Big Al 

Unfortunately, you are so correct.

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42 minutes ago, Toast & Taste said:

Yep, way overblown  (a statement coming from a guy who has paid several thousand bucks for a bottle of Scotch. Too many times...).

With wine and cigars you at least stand to benefit, taste wise, from time. With spirits, the flavors in the bottle have zero chance of improving. They are what they were on bottling day. So that bottle of wine or those cigars that you bought 15 years ago should taste significantly better,  if you bought the right stuff. The Pappy will not have improved in that time. 

First it was Scotch.

Then cigars 

Now Bourbon. 

The death of anything is for it to get popular. 

Big Al 

Yeah, especially popular too quickly. I like the fact that there are so many distilleries  popping up everywhere, but it’s all young whiskey sold at insane prices.

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Hasn't the term "Bourbon" now been released to the wild?  So you can make bourbon anywhere, not just Kentucky. 

Very 'not' French of them . . . :P 

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My personal favorite was always the SW juice 15 y/o. I gave up on Pappy in 2013/14 when prices exploded. Our family owned a liquor store and a decade or more ago we could actually keep Pappy, Weller, etc on the shelf and often take it home to drink. 😕

These days, I’ll get the invite from Total Wine to buy one bottle of Pappy or GTS etc. I’ll typically try to get a bottle of 23, flip it on the secondary market and go buy good value bourbon with it. In a way, I guess it makes me part of the problem, however, I don’t see things changing even if I refrain from doing it.

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25 minutes ago, PapaDisco said:

Hasn't the term "Bourbon" now been released to the wild?  So you can make bourbon anywhere, not just Kentucky. 

Very 'not' French of them . . . :P 

Bourbon by definition describes the mash bill, must be at least 51% corn, so it can be distilled anywhere, and there are some deviations on bourbon:

1) Bourbon, by law, must be aged in a brand-new, charred white oak barrel to be called straight bourbon whiskeythat means, a barrel can only be used once for bourbon.

2) Nothing can be added to bourbon in the distilling process except water. So, that means that all the flavor comes from the charred oak barrels.

3) The angel's share. By law, bourbon must be aged in barrels for at least two years. As bourbon is "sleeping " in the barrel, it loses some to evaporation every year and that's called the "angel's share." A sign at the Buffalo Trace distillery explains why: "Because we like to think it is the bit of bourbon we are sharing with the angels."

To be a Kentucky Straight Bourbon it has to meet certain requirements including the above, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, it has to be aged at least 4 years for the designation.

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