Mininum Humidity Before Cigar Damage?


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1 hour ago, HarveyBoulevard said:

That's a very bold statement given the company we all have here. 

Yes, you are right... however I did say “most” of the people that know me... I should have said “among” the best, but it’s not me that’s saying it ? 

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One can store their cigars in the mid to high 50's Relative Humidity if their temperature setting is relative to maintaining acceptable percentage of moisture in their cigars. So when MRN states that

The FACT is that all procedures and techniques posted by anyone in the world regarding storage are simply OPINIONS(no matter how long they’ve been smoking, no matter how many cigars they have, no matt

0% with 451F ambient, damaged for good!

being in Spain, I found one cigar shop with a lot of very interesting and rare cigars in broken humidor. the humidity was 58%. that city is close to the sea. I bought just 20-30 cigars because was afraid of they might be ruined. After couple of months in my humidor at 65% those got brilliant. and I was sorry I didn't buy more.

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1 hour ago, Piligrim said:

being in Spain, I found one cigar shop with a lot of very interesting and rare cigars in broken humidor. the humidity was 58%. that city is close to the sea. I bought just 20-30 cigars because was afraid of they might be ruined. After couple of months in my humidor at 65% those got brilliant. and I was sorry I didn't buy more.

It probably wasn’t broken very long, and the cigars just needed rehydration. 

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It probably wasn’t broken very long, and the cigars just needed rehydration. 
They told me it was broken for few months, but the thing is most of the time they have pretty high humidity outside.

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17 minutes ago, Piligrim said:

They told me it was broken for few months, but the thing is most of the time they have pretty high humidity outside.

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That makes sense. Makes you wonder why they kept rare cigars in there.

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46 minutes ago, CigSid said:
That makes sense. Makes you wonder why they kept rare cigars in there.

That's just small shop in small town. The founder died and his family isn't so good in business as he was.

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6 hours ago, JohnS said:

One can store their cigars in the mid to high 50's Relative Humidity if their temperature setting is relative to maintaining acceptable percentage of moisture in their cigars. So when MRN states that he keeps his cigars at 55% to 60% RH long-term (in the Montehiba blog interview with Robert Hebenstreit) , we need to factor that he also states that he keeps these cigars at 12°C (54°F). Typically, you want your Habanos cigars to contain around 9% to 12% moisture. So @CigSid is correct, in a sense, to state that storing cigars below 60%RH will cause damage (in drying out the cigars) because he's correctly assuming that the greater majority of cigar enthusiasts store their cigars at higher temperatures, typically more around 21°C (70°F) or slightly less.

@PigFish addresses this further in this pinned topic in the humidor tutorial sub-forum. Also, check this diagram he's posted here.

John, thank you for the clarification brother.

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On 2/14/2019 at 12:28 AM, LonesomeHabanoAficionado said:

 By the way, I want to know why NC smokers prefer high humidity like 69-70% unlike CCs ?...

 

This is honestly something of a myth. Yes, there are some NC's that smoke better at 70%, but there is actually a pretty large contingent of NC smokers that prefer 65% for most all their NC smokes. My personal preference, even for NC's is 65%, most times a bit lower, though I tend to store for long-term aging at around 68%. Smoking outside in Florida may skew my preferences somewhat, as 70% is just asking for acrid smokes that require frequent re-lights. I wish many tobacconists in the US would stop telling people to store at 70% and instead tell them to store at what works best for their climate and needs.

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One other point I wanted to bring up was the opportunity cost of storage. Yes, I know, it sounds like a strange concept, but you really do get more sharper flavours with Habanos cigars if you lower the humidity. The cost to this is the fact that they will then tend to burn quicker and hotter. Now, for me, that is a problem because when I take to a cigar, well...ask my friends, I really connect with it and find myself smoking too quickly. However, others find they smoke too slowly and so this situation (i.e. lower temperature and humidity storage) suits them better.

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Look at London shop storage (RH/temp, not beetles).  It was a happy accident when they realized that storing cigars LT in the basements at 55RHish and 55-60F birthed stunning cigars. That and glassine wrapping. Certainly more cigars in any one shop's basement there than any of us have, numbers or $, and they turned out ok.

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16 minutes ago, crking3 said:

Now this thread has got me all worried .......I keep mine at 60rh and 65-70F....am I at an okay moisture content to store long term?


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Your fine.  Better than fine actually. Great in fact. Your exactly where mine are :)

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15 minutes ago, crking3 said:

Now this thread has got me all worried .......I keep mine at 60rh and 65-70F....am I at an okay moisture content to store long term?


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It’s “my opinion” that at those temperatures your humidity is a bit too low. As MRN stated “no one really knows” but with my experience, I have found that humidity levels atound 60 percent, and temps around 65 to 70, will eventually dry your cigars out. After long term exposure to this environment, it will substantially lower the quality of your cigars...

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6 hours ago, clickbangdoh said:

This is honestly something of a myth. Yes, there are some NC's that smoke better at 70%, but there is actually a pretty large contingent of NC smokers that prefer 65% for most all their NC smokes. My personal preference, even for NC's is 65%, most times a bit lower, though I tend to store for long-term aging at around 68%. Smoking outside in Florida may skew my preferences somewhat, as 70% is just asking for acrid smokes that require frequent re-lights. I wish many tobacconists in the US would stop telling people to store at 70% and instead tell them to store at what works best for their climate and needs.

I saw even NC people being gravitated to lower humidity (65) instead of 70% since it is too humid for their palettes in nowadays! Things getting changed real fast ?! I also agree that many B&Ms should stop recommending 70%!

Note. I still really upset that why local B&Ms in my country are still insisting on old 70% rule and traditional Spanish cedar humidor (tupperdor, coolidor and wineador are deserved to be widely used as they are way cheaper and yet more efficient than traditional ones)!

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2 hours ago, crking3 said:


So what’s a better rh at that temp range according to “your opinion” ? Lol


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65 to 68 percent to store long term. Dry box at 58 to 62 percent to smoke.

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This will be my last post on this matter... 

I have 70 year old boxes that are in perfect condition because of the old “tried and true” method of preserving these precious cigars. For all this time 70/70 was drilled into our grandfathers, our fathers and then to us. Why? Because it worked. Sure, I changed it just a bit to 68/68, because it was close enough (margin for error) and for 20 plus years it has worked perfectly. You have seen near 100 point scores in reviews “here” with this method... Then all of a sudden there’s a “new” way to do it... lower humidity is now better, the old (tried and true) method is now “hogwash”... and... it works for me so it MUST be the right way to do it. That is until 15 to 20 years from now, maybe it turns out that it isn’t... Is lower better? Nobody really knows for sure... has the old way worked for decades? Hell yes! Just like this information was passed down to my dad, then passed down to me, I am passing it down to you.

What you do with this information is entirely up to you.

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This will be my last post on this matter... 
I have 70 year old boxes that are in perfect condition because of the old “tried and true” method of preserving these precious cigars. For all this time 70/70 was drilled into our grandfathers, our fathers and then to us. Why? Because it worked. Sure, I changed it just a bit to 68/68, because it was close enough (margin for error) and for 20 plus years it has worked perfectly. You have seen near 100 point scores in reviews “here” with this method... Then all of a sudden there’s a “new” way to do it... lower humidity is now better, the old (tried and true) method is now “hogwash”... and... it works for me so it MUST be the right way to do it. That is until 15 to 20 years from now, maybe it turns out that it isn’t... Is lower better? Nobody really knows for sure... has the old way worked for decades? Hell yes! Just like this information was passed down to my dad, then passed down to me, I am passing it down to you.
What you do with this information is entirely up to you.



I don’t think PigFish was calling your method to store cigars “hogwash”. I think he was referring to you stating something that people have done to their cigars with success is “dangerous”. You then also state this is a fact, not opinion because of personal experience. There are 100s of people in this forum who store their cigars with an rh at 55%-62% and have been happy with their results. Isn’t their personal experience valid like yours?


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I've smoked some wonderful 40+ year old cigars thanks to CigSid, and can attest to his storage methods.  They were, in a word...perfect.  At least to my fried taste buds.

Recently, I've noticed my cigars seemed just a bit 'off' and I discovered that the controller in my cabinet was off, by about 5 points (low).  Frustrating, as this is the controller that went through a full calibration and rebuild by the manufacturer about four years ago.  I'm currently installing a new controller and slightly larger circulation fans that will run on a timer rather than when the humidifiers kick on.  I'm also going to be using a couple SensorPush monitors that have just been salt tested and calibrated to keep a watchful eye on things.

Back on topic, my setpoint has been 65% / 68F for some time, and I have great results in the storage of my cigars.  I dry box at 60-62% for a few days before smoking.  Some have spent 15+ years in my cabinet.  I won't pretend that I know all things but what I do know is how my cigars taste and I'm very happy with my results.  Wouldn't store less than 65% long term, on a dare.

As they say, one man's opinion.....

 

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70/70, foam humidifiers, safety razors, points ignitions, eating like cave men....

Whatever personally works is great. Discounting out of hand / making assumptions regarding the experience of others because it doesn't jibe with mine is worthy of ridicule.

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On 2/15/2019 at 12:17 AM, Piligrim said:

being in Spain, I found one cigar shop with a lot of very interesting and rare cigars in broken humidor. the humidity was 58%. that city is close to the sea. I bought just 20-30 cigars because was afraid of they might be ruined. After couple of months in my humidor at 65% those got brilliant. and I was sorry I didn't buy more.

 

On 2/15/2019 at 9:19 PM, PartagasIV said:

Look at London shop storage (RH/temp, not beetles).  It was a happy accident when they realized that storing cigars LT in the basements at 55RHish and 55-60F birthed stunning cigars. That and glassine wrapping. Certainly more cigars in any one shop's basement there than any of us have, numbers or $, and they turned out ok.

I bought rare vintage cigars from a Spain vendor who stored “In his family’s cave at 60-62%.” This was about a year ago and the two boxes I bought reminded me exactly of the cigars I bought personally from Desmond Sautter of Mount Street London in 2006 not long before he retired. He stored them in the basement at around 60% and I remembered being surprised, but thinking I shouldn’t question because he’s cigar royalty. Right??!!?? Imagine my disappointment when I got home to the USA and the box of 80’s Vintage Davidoff No. 1’s, and handful of other old cigars I bought didn’t taste like the old classic Cuban tobacco I had experienced in the past. They were all flat and the oils had long dried up. Every cigar! Not just a couple of duds.

This is the same exact thing I experienced with this Spain vendors cigars last year, and will be the last time I ever buy cigars that have been long term stores at such low RH. They eventually became “better” cigars in my humidor, but I doubt they will ever become the cigars they should/could have been. I’m comparing this to what I consider properly stored vintage cigars I’ve bought, or ones I’ve carefully aged myself for 12 + or so years at 67-70%. 

An honest question..... Could it be possible some of you that are naysaying @CigSid haven’t really had anything other to compare it to like my examples above? I’m definitely in his corner based on my personal experiences over the years. I will continue to long term store at 67-70% and dry box at 60-62%. 

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I know several cases when deep vintage cigars were restored by a special method after storage for about 100 years without a humidor (in Russia winter humidity in a heated room can fall below 30%). Thus, it is believed that the tobacco in these cigars was "dead." Unfortunately test this theory can be only comparing with cigars, which were stored 100 years in the humidor...

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10 hours ago, jfields said:

An honest question..... Could it be possible some of you that are naysaying haven’t really had anything other to compare it to like my examples above?

I don't necessarily think everyone is naysaying...its the assertion that his opinion/experience was stated as factual and everyone else's opinion/experience is simply anecdotal.

I don't discount he could be correct. I just don't take his personal experience or opinion as the gospel. 

However, I do appreciate his opinion and results. 

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