can someone explain brexit?


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3 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I agree! I would have only offered them $5 for their worthless online lives.

Hey hey,,  Depending on if they like My Little Pony or not, that could be considered to be pro-donkey!?  maybe a Democrate?..........this all sounds like a horrid joke, but if we don't stand up to this bollocks, it's were we'll find ourselves. 

 

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This is such a complicated and contentious issue that I fear that its political nature could make it ultimately unsuitable for this forum. Already in this short thread I have seen comments that are fu

OK Ken here goes, after much soul searching and contemplation here is the explanation of the current state of brexit: "We’ve all been on a night out with a mate who says “It’s shit here - let’s go som

From an outsider's perspective, I always thought the reason for the exit was because a sovereign nation did not want other nations dictating its policy. The specific and exact root causes may be varie

3 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I'd have to disagree there. If they are dumb enough to sign away their rights for cash, they deserve what they get.

As with Brexit,  lots of impoverished areas of the country, bought into the lies and narrative of how Brexit was sold.   You could argue that poverty is connected to a lack of informed political awareness.  I don't agree with the logic that people should be offered crap to eat, on the basis they may be hungry enough/stupid enough to eat it. 

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8 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

ta for all that. it all does make sense. in a way.

perhaps i should be more concerned/interested in what happens now. 

it seems that there will be no 2nd vote. so it will go ahead.

it seems that europe is hardly in the frame of mind for concessions so Britain fits in or cops it. where does that leave them? 

and if a future govt decides back we all go, very hard to imagine europe would not say only if you pay for it all. 

  I can't believe I managed to get a semi legible chunk of words out last thing before bed!

  I think the situation now sums up the quality of politics everywhere. It looks to be either no deal or May's deal, with leani g towards the former.

  The house of commons won't vote for May's deal unless the issue of Northern Ireland being treated differently to the rest of the UK is changed, the result is no deal and a hard border with the republic of Ireland.

  The EU won't change the deal because it says that it could result in a hard border between Northern and Republic of Ireland, the result is no deal and a hard border.

  Neither side seem to realise the outcome of both results.

  RE Scotland breaking away, we now know what it would look like; a hard border between England and Scotland unless a deal is agreed with 27 other EU leaders who all want a piece of the pie for their personal gains.

  So the political and social future of the whole continent is broken for generations to come. The sad thing is that day 1, both sides could have signed a free trade agreement and spent the next two years working out the fine points, minimal disruption to both parties. But purely down to political ideology, both sides wouldn't.

  The was a little reported piece I read a few weeks back too: The UK was also the voting member who gave a majority to the German led 'upper tier' of members in regard to the EU budget and major decision making. With it gone the 'second tier' of countries with smaller GDPs, running at budget deficits, the ones who receive more than they give from the EU budget, will have the voting majority on decisions now. They will be setting how much each country pays in, who gets the most back, where develop is spent etc etc. The EU is in for fundamental change and a massive swing towards the sphere of Southern/Eastern Europe from Berlin and Paris.

  You can say that it's karma after there being a two tier system that only really benefited the big members, but regardless, think how momentous that sea change is going to be.

 

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8 hours ago, cigaraholic said:

What’s Vlad going to do with all his cash....promoting right wing nut boxes and fascism in the western world is one of his favorite pastimes 

Says the guy from "Bay Area" rofl... How's that radical leftism treating you guys over there?

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44 minutes ago, 99call said:

As with Brexit,  lots of impoverished areas of the country, bought into the lies and narrative of how Brexit was sold.   You could argue that poverty is connected to a lack of informed political awareness.  I don't agree with the logic that people should be offered crap to eat, on the basis they may be hungry enough/stupid enough to eat it. 

Being offered crap food to eat vs given cash to sign away your digital life are 2 different things. Food is a fundamental human right, a digital life is not. You can get by without ever having a digital life, but not the other.

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54 minutes ago, 99call said:

As with Brexit,  lots of impoverished areas of the country, bought into the lies and narrative of how Brexit was sold.   You could argue that poverty is connected to a lack of informed political awareness.  I don't agree with the logic that people should be offered crap to eat, on the basis they may be hungry enough/stupid enough to eat it. 

 At some point you need to take responsibility for your own actions. Your education (formal and/or informal), what you watch, what you read, what you eat, how you conduct and  present yourself, what you value. 

You can't blame government. The community knows exactly what it is going to get from them (either side) and yet we are locked into this cycle of voting for muppets knowing full well that we are getting muppets and then complaining that the muppets are screwing up.  Madness.   

Government is the purest reflection of the electorate.  You get what you vote for.  

Our political scene here is chaotic, self obsessed, erratic, capable of good things, generally settling for mediocrity, wanting to be liked. 

It is a mirror of its people. 

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I have always loved this. 

 

“The Seven Social Sins are:

Wealth without work.
Pleasure without conscience.
Knowledge without character.
Commerce without morality.
Science without humanity.
Worship without sacrifice.
Politics without principle.


From a sermon given by Frederick Lewis Donaldson in Westminster Abbey, London, on March 20, 1925.” 
― 
Frederick Lewis Donaldson

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1 minute ago, Fuzz said:

Being offered crap food to eat vs given cash to sign away your digital life are 2 different things. Food is a fundamental human right, a digital life is not. You can get by without ever having a digital life, but not the other.

Life is being increasingly organised and mapped, to funnel everyones habits into a computer driven life.   Yes teenagers can live some hermit-like existence and make their lives incredibly difficult by going 'off-grid', as you stated, but it's just not realistic.   A bit like old age pensioners in the UK.  All the small banks are being shut down in the countryside, and non-computer proficient people in their 90's, with sight, dexterity and hearing issues are being forced to use a platform, they don't want to. 

But I would suggest your logic it odd.  The much more logical thing to do is to question the dark motives of facebook, not the idiocy of teenagers etc. Originally the use of most online platforms, was on a basis of being sold to through advertising.....now thats 100% fair.  You don't get anything for free.   Now however, people in poverty are effectively having their votes bought, and manipulated by companies like Cambridge Analytica. 

In conclusion, I agree it's a sad state of affairs that people are desperate enough to offer themselves up for this,   I just find it odd that you seem to have no issue the sadder more perverse side to this.  i.e the practice of these companies  

 

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12 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

 At some point you need to take responsibility for your own actions. Your education (formal and/or informal), what you watch, what you read, what you eat, how you conduct and  present yourself, what you value. 

Rob, your comment sounds measured, informed and well thought out.  My point is that many don't have your judgement, poise of thought or experience.  Many gobble up the nonsense narrative that is stuffed down their throats.  My point was, I don't agree with the concept that vulnerable parts of society, should be taken advantage of, just because it's possible. 

My point was that we seem to by unervingly comfortable the fact that political parties are no longer standing for something, and hoping we vote for them.  They are now profiling us online, creating a policy on that, then corrupting our vote.    I like many find them all to be a shower of muck,  and see my political life, as a personal/local community thing.  i.e. work hard, look after your family and people around you. try not to be an arsehole in general etc

Sadly any human being of any worth, is too valuable to general society to ever consider giving up on life, and become a politician. 

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3 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I'd have to disagree there. If they are dumb enough to sign away their rights for cash, they deserve what they get.

The last great platform we have for true freedom of speech and dissemination of information, and you have those stupid enough to throw that away. We really are a species of muppets aren't we. They deserve everything they get for their severe lack of foresight.

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 A thing I've noticed is the vitriol that's seeped in.

  My best friend lives in Wisconsin and a decade ago we were having a discussion about how the US (Bare with me) was starting to divide, Bush Jr seemed to be starting point of polarisation. We both remarked that the only thing that could truly harm the US was itself, divide and conquer as the old adage goes. That happened, we can see it now from both sides.

 The worrying thing is that the UK is at the point where the US was around a decade ago; people are abandoning the middle ground because they are getting attacked by both extremes. Camps (Figurative) are forming and the politicians and media are throwing fuel onto it all. There's a comment above that shows no matter what the discussion, even if it's about a country thousands of miles away, there is now always an angle of attack.

  The antidote is pretty simple to me, you disconnect from the screen and go out and talk to people, share their experiences, help people. But it's not happening, people are forming into blocks and then only engage with those who's opinions match their own and re-enforce. Anyone else is viciously attacked.

  Economically things will always go up and down, hard Brexit or not, down the line people just get on with their lives. The real issue for me is the poison that's gotten into the veins of society. Brexit didn't cause it, I don't know what did, but I fear that once the rot has set in then it's too late.

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4 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

 A thing I've noticed is the vitriol that's seeped in.

  My best friend lives in Wisconsin and a decade ago we were having a discussion about how the US (Bare with me) was starting to divide, Bush Jr seemed to be starting point of polarisation. We both remarked that the only thing that could truly harm the US was itself, divide and conquer as the old adage goes. That happened, we can see it now from both sides.

 The worrying thing is that the UK is at the point where the US was around a decade ago; people are abandoning the middle ground because they are getting attacked by both extremes. Camps (Figurative) are forming and the politicians and media are throwing fuel onto it all. There's a comment above that shows no matter what the discussion, even if it's about a country thousands of miles away, there is now always an angle of attack.

  The antidote is pretty simple to me, you disconnect from the screen and go out and talk to people, share their experiences, help people. But it's not happening, people are forming into blocks and then only engage with those who's opinions match their own and re-enforce. Anyone else is viciously attacked.

  Economically things will always go up and down, hard Brexit or not, down the line people just get on with their lives. The real issue for me is the poison that's gotten into the veins of society. Brexit didn't cause it, I don't know what did, but I fear that once the rot has set in then it's too late.

We have no miracle cure or penicillin for what is afflicting society. It may be sanguine, but you know what they did in the old days with diseased parts of the body...

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Seven Labour MPs just quit, to set up as independants.   I hope this trickle turns into a flood, to the point that John MacDonnald, Jeremy Corbyn, and Dianne Abbot are left out in the cold. 

Come on 'Old Labour'! lets get are act together and right the ship!

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1 hour ago, CaptainQuintero said:

The worrying thing is that the UK is at the point where the US was around a decade ago; people are abandoning the middle ground because they are getting attacked by both extremes. Camps (Figurative) are forming and the politicians and media are throwing fuel onto it all. There's a comment above that shows no matter what the discussion, even if it's about a country thousands of miles away, there is now always an angle of attack.

  The antidote is pretty simple to me, you disconnect from the screen and go out and talk to people, share their experiences, help people. But it's not happening, people are forming into blocks and then only engage with those who's opinions match their own and re-enforce. Anyone else is viciously attacked.

There is a certain irony in the fact that we are discussing this issue on an online forum.
It is too easy to try and place blame for the woes of society on todays technology. Yesterday it was computer games, the day before it was television, and the day before that it was rock music. As has been said before on this thread, people need to start taking responsibility again, everyone, not just the politicians.

There really is no easy cure for this problem, because it is a chronic one, and a global problem. I don't see anyone here going out on the attack, let alone targeting a particular country. El Pres. is right, our governments, and their ineptness on a global scale is a reflection of the electorate that vote them in.

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37 minutes ago, FatherOfPugs said:

Seems like a pretty politically charged thread, and I'm surprised it has lasted this long. Seems there is a certain viewpoint that is allowed, just like most other places while the opposing view, if stated would be completely wiped out, suspended, etc. Just calling what I see. 

This seems I little odd, as you seem to be complaining about something being deleted..........erm when it hasn't yet been deleted.   Looking through the thread there have been opinions on both sides. 

I don't think you are calling what you see.   I think you want contention where there isn't any. 

 

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Gentlemen, who is shortly and clearly can answer to Ken’s question? Half of you say: it's the stupid people votes, half of you blame the stupid officials. I don't believe it's really that all so stupid. As a rule, there are advantages and disadvantages in any issue. The disadvantages of Brexit are almost all listed, but there are advantages?

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10 minutes ago, 99call said:

What is your opinion on Brexit?  I wont be offended by anything you have to say.  

Exactly this, I wont be either.. Part of the problem is (as mentioned earlier by another contributor) with Brexit (and many other things in life) is that people don't discuss. They take a position, put their fingers in their ears and shout that they are right. Peoples views and opinions if respectfully placed should always be listened to, for me its how I test my own thoughts and views, as long as people play the ball and not the man. Its also really interesting how other non UK based member see this issue, as Kipling wrote "what do they know of England, who only England know.

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1 hour ago, FatherOfPugs said:

Seems like a pretty politically charged thread, and I'm surprised it has lasted this long. Seems there is a certain viewpoint that is allowed, just like most other places while the opposing view, if stated would be completely wiped out, suspended, etc. Just calling what I see. 

Rule 2: I am pretty sure its only US political talk that is banned.

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2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

We have no miracle cure or penicillin for what is afflicting society. It may be sanguine, but you know what they did in the old days with diseased parts of the body...

Your mask has slipped! You are part of the ruling reptilian overlord elite, possibly lord Lucan, and I claim my £5! :D

 

1 hour ago, IanMcLean68 said:

There is a certain irony in the fact that we are discussing this issue on an online forum.
It is too easy to try and place blame for the woes of society on todays technology. Yesterday it was computer games, the day before it was television, and the day before that it was rock music. As has been said before on this thread, people need to start taking responsibility again, everyone, not just the politicians.

There really is no easy cure for this problem, because it is a chronic one, and a global problem. I don't see anyone here going out on the attack, let alone targeting a particular country. El Pres. is right, our governments, and their ineptness on a global scale is a reflection of the electorate that vote them in.

I can't disagree wth anything you've put. At the risk of sounding like an old man shouting at kids on the street, it does just seem like people of all ages just don't wish to take responsibility anymore, it's always someone else's fault. Is it just that society is more centred around the individual nowadays and social media simply concentrates that down into something more sinister, or like you say it's just the first easy target to blame.

Regards attacking countries, I was possibly not clear, there was a bit of a tit for tat a few hours ago on the thread where US political sniping snuck through into a Brexit discussion... before I managed to use it in my example :lookaround:

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