Ken Gargett

can someone explain brexit?

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

.......it just suits some agendas :D

I can understand the want to leave. I would have voted to stay. 

Then again, Switzerland seems to be doing ok.  It may be way too easy but whatever Switzerland is doing.....do that ;)

 

sell watches and launder drug money?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

sell watches and launder drug money?

Ignoramus. 

they don't seem to be doing too poorly ....not being in the EU. 

  • Switzerland has the second highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the world. At the end of 2015 Swiss GDP per capita stood at CHF 77,943 (approx. EUR 73,000 or USD 81,000).
  • About 74% of Swiss GDP is generated by the service sector and 25% by industry. The contribution from the agricultural sector is less than 1%.
  • The European Union (EU) is Switzerland's main trading partner. Around 78% of Swiss imports are from the EU, while 43% of Swiss exports are destined for EU countries.
  • Most Swiss firms (over 99%) are small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). These are defined as companies with fewer than 250 employees.
  • The public debt-to-GDP ratio in Switzerland has fallen considerably in recent years, from 54.6% in 1998 to 34.7% in 2014.
  • Switzerland has the lowest rate of value-added tax in Europe. 8% is levied on most goods and services, 3.8% on accommodation services, and 2.5% on basic necessities and other everyday items.
  • Every year Switzerland spends close to 3% of its GDP, more than CHF 18.5 billion (around EUR 15 billion or USD 20.6 billion), on research and development . Over three-quarters of this funding comes from the private sector.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  I'm not too sure our penchant for being beery, overweight eccentrics prone to bursts of violence and unprotected sex (Although not at the same time) lends too well to clean swiss-style living :rotfl:

 #1 in Europe for binge drinking, obesity, assaults, teenage pregnancy and inventions/discoveries

  That's one hell of a competitive advantage. Not sure for what niche market though..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Ignoramus. 

my sincerest apologies. i should, of course, have said launder cigar money. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  I'm not too sure our penchant for being beery, overweight eccentrics prone to bursts of violence and unprotected sex (Although not at the same time) lends too well to clean swiss-style living :rotfl:

 #1 in Europe for binge drinking, obesity, assaults, teenage pregnancy and inventions/discoveries

  That's one hell of a competitive advantage. Not sure for what niche market though..

Invent an all in one pregnancy/cholesterol/liver test kit that doubles as a protective shield from assaults (automatically calls for the police too), and is marketed in My Little Pony or Action Man print?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When will this brexit circus end? Everybody in the Europe are tired of this bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ignoramus. 
they don't seem to be doing too poorly ....not being in the EU. 
  • Switzerland has the second highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the world. At the end of 2015 Swiss GDP per capita stood at CHF 77,943 (approx. EUR 73,000 or USD 81,000).
  • About 74% of Swiss GDP is generated by the service sector and 25% by industry. The contribution from the agricultural sector is less than 1%.
  • The European Union (EU) is Switzerland's main trading partner. Around 78% of Swiss imports are from the EU, while 43% of Swiss exports are destined for EU countries.
  • Most Swiss firms (over 99%) are small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). These are defined as companies with fewer than 250 employees.
  • The public debt-to-GDP ratio in Switzerland has fallen considerably in recent years, from 54.6% in 1998 to 34.7% in 2014.
  • Switzerland has the lowest rate of value-added tax in Europe. 8% is levied on most goods and services, 3.8% on accommodation services, and 2.5% on basic necessities and other everyday items.
  • Every year Switzerland spends close to 3% of its GDP, more than CHF 18.5 billion (around EUR 15 billion or USD 20.6 billion), on research and development . Over three-quarters of this funding comes from the private sector.
Fine. But can you name any Swiss rock bands/punk bands/rappers?

Sent from my ActionMan walkie-talkie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Ignoramus. 

they don't seem to be doing too poorly ....not being in the EU. 

  • Switzerland has the second highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the world. At the end of 2015 Swiss GDP per capita stood at CHF 77,943 (approx. EUR 73,000 or USD 81,000).
  • About 74% of Swiss GDP is generated by the service sector and 25% by industry. The contribution from the agricultural sector is less than 1%.
  • The European Union (EU) is Switzerland's main trading partner. Around 78% of Swiss imports are from the EU, while 43% of Swiss exports are destined for EU countries.
  • Most Swiss firms (over 99%) are small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). These are defined as companies with fewer than 250 employees.
  • The public debt-to-GDP ratio in Switzerland has fallen considerably in recent years, from 54.6% in 1998 to 34.7% in 2014.
  • Switzerland has the lowest rate of value-added tax in Europe. 8% is levied on most goods and services, 3.8% on accommodation services, and 2.5% on basic necessities and other everyday items.
  • Every year Switzerland spends close to 3% of its GDP, more than CHF 18.5 billion (around EUR 15 billion or USD 20.6 billion), on research and development . Over three-quarters of this funding comes from the private sector.

Absolutely.

But in order to get those trade terms with the EU, Switzerland has signed up to freedom of movement and work for EU citizens (there are some (time-limited) restrictions for newer EU members)

https://www.expatica.com/ch/moving/visas/guide-for-eu-efta-citizens-and-relatives-moving-to-switzerland-443220/#Freedom

An end to freedom of movement for EU citizens was one of the main reasons people voted for Brexit. So pro-Brexit voters explicitly do not want the same deal that Switzerland has.

One of the founding principles of the EU, set out in the Treaty of Rome in 1957, and reinforced since, is the notion of "The Four Freedoms"

Freedom of movement of goods, capital, services and people.

http://en.euabc.com/word/506

Each of these, from the standpoint of a member country, can be seen as two things: goods in and out, services in and out, capital in and out and people in and out.

One of the main reasons Brexit has happened, is that voters wanted to restrict EU citizens moving to Britain. I think most voters were happy with the notion of British citizens having the right to live and work in Ireland, France and Spain etc. (and availing of public schools, health and social services in those countries)

So of the 8 freedoms, many Brexit voters voted that way to restrict one of them.

As an outsider, it does look a little like a case of "having one's cake and eating it too". 

 

And then there's this. 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/eu-negotiations_would-the-swiss-model-suit-a-post-brexit-britain/42128110

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Akela3rd said:

Fine. But can you name any Swiss rock bands/punk bands/rappers?

I can, just from memory : Krokus (hard rock band), Stefan Eicher (very famous singer), The Young Gods (Indy rock band)…

And I'm neither young nor hip! :lol3:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ryan said:

Absolutely.

But in order to get those trade terms with the EU, Switzerland has signed up to freedom of movement and work for EU citizens (there are some (time-limited) restrictions for newer EU members) 

https://www.expatica.com/ch/moving/visas/guide-for-eu-efta-citizens-and-relatives-moving-to-switzerland-443220/#Freedom

An end to freedom of movement for EU citizens was one of the main reasons people voted for Brexit. So pro-Brexit voters explicitly do not want the same deal that Switzerland has.

One of the founding principles of the EU, set out in the Treaty of Rome in 1957, and reinforced since, is the notion of "The Four Freedoms"

Freedom of movement of goods, capital, services and people.

http://en.euabc.com/word/506

Each of these, from the standpoint of a member country, can be seen as two things: goods in and out, services in and out, capital in and out and people in and out.

One of the main reasons Brexit has happened, is that voters wanted to restrict EU citizens moving to Britain. I think most voters were happy with the notion of British citizens having the right to live and work in Ireland, France and Spain etc. (and availing of public schools, health and social services in those countries)

So of the 8 freedoms, many Brexit voters voted that way to restrict one of them.

As an outsider, it does look a little like a case of "having one's cake and eating it too". 

 

And then there's this. 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/eu-negotiations_would-the-swiss-model-suit-a-post-brexit-britain/42128110

 

Right, The component of utmost importance for the Optimum Currency Area, proposed by Robert Mundell, was the freedom of labor. Without this component, the entire economic "harmonization" falls apart. So, it is really a non-negotiable subject for the EU, and then becomes the main subject by Nationalists to instill fear and exploit those who are otherwise disenfranchised from the issue. We see that in voting patterns. Some of the sternest voters to leave are in areas where immigrants do not live. Most of their anger was harnessed through media/internet outlet rather than personal experience. It's common around the world to see this and pretty scary how easy it is to mobilize unaffected populations with misinformation and radicalized rhetoric... I'm ranting apparently.

Switzerland has an economic groundwork (weak governance of both financial and commodity sectors) that has relied on heavy economic sovereignty since well before the ECC. The UK on the other hand has always been reliant on the general trade conditions with it's neighbors. I don't think the UK is politically equipped to set-up such environment that will attract the level of finance or goods and services that Switzerland already has established over decades. While those Swiss economic indicators are impressive, I don't think a country can just achieve that without going through major changes first that would negatively impact the country (i.e. depreciate currency, relax tax and corruption laws, deregulate labor markets, have volatile interest rates in consistent battle to stabilize domestic savings/investment) which could all increase poverty rates and disrupt natural business cycles.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can, just from memory : Krokus (hard rock band), Stefan Eicher (very famous singer), The Young Gods (Indy rock band)…
And I'm neither young nor hip! 3:
Good effort! I do know both Krokus and The Young Gods, but didn't know they were Swiss and I've never heard of Stefan Eicher. Thanks@Smallclub.

Sent from my ActionMan walkie-talkie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though Brexit had certain economic and financial tent poles, my personal belief is that the rising tide of modern nationalism is what enticed the voters to get behind it.

I am fearful the so called nationalism espoused by those pushing for Brexit, and other so called nationalists around the world, are creating the ideal conditions for hateful rhetoric, segregation, and racism to thrive in. Personally, it seems to me this nationalist movement seems to share some roots with the wave of fascism that swept through Europe in the 20s and 30s. There are multiple similarities such as contempt for cultural diversity and liberal democracy, militaristic nationalism, and subordinating individual rights under the banner of the greater good. 

I hope I am wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://dispatcheseurope.com/no-deal-no-problem-more-eu-countries-guarantee-british-expats-post-brexit-grace-periods/

I found this page rather interesting after watching a couple of videos linked in this thread. It appears that when/if Brexit happens any Brits living in the EU will have to go back to Britain since they will no longer be accepted as EU citizens. That would affect over 2 million Brits currently living in EU countries outside of Britain. What a shamble. Imagine settling down in a nice warm coastal town for a cozy retirement, and then you get booted out. Rough.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you want your laws made in London? Thought not.

There is an economic case to be made on both sides of the equation but in essence,  it's about self determination. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2019 at 8:37 AM, Philc2001 said:

https://dispatcheseurope.com/no-deal-no-problem-more-eu-countries-guarantee-british-expats-post-brexit-grace-periods/

I found this page rather interesting after watching a couple of videos linked in this thread. It appears that when/if Brexit happens any Brits living in the EU will have to go back to Britain since they will no longer be accepted as EU citizens. That would affect over 2 million Brits currently living in EU countries outside of Britain. What a shamble. Imagine settling down in a nice warm coastal town for a cozy retirement, and then you get booted out. Rough.  

That is absolute rubbish.  Do you think these people want the Brits to up sticks? The retirees may lose access to "free," services, but so what. They should pay for them as they haven't added to the Spanish,  French etc system during their working lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/6/2019 at 8:02 PM, Philc2001 said:

Though Brexit had certain economic and financial tent poles, my personal belief is that the rising tide of modern nationalism is what enticed the voters to get behind it.

I am fearful the so called nationalism espoused by those pushing for Brexit, and other so called nationalists around the world, are creating the ideal conditions for hateful rhetoric, segregation, and racism to thrive in. Personally, it seems to me this nationalist movement seems to share some roots with the wave of fascism that swept through Europe in the 20s and 30s. There are multiple similarities such as contempt for cultural diversity and liberal democracy, militaristic nationalism, and subordinating individual rights under the banner of the greater good. 

I hope I am wrong.

Brexit is actually more libertarian than nationalist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/22/2019 at 1:53 PM, BoliDan said:

Right, The component of utmost importance for the Optimum Currency Area, proposed by Robert Mundell, was the freedom of labor. Without this component, the entire economic "harmonization" falls apart. So, it is really a non-negotiable subject for the EU, and then becomes the main subject by Nationalists to instill fear and exploit those who are otherwise disenfranchised from the issue. We see that in voting patterns. Some of the sternest voters to leave are in areas where immigrants do not live. Most of their anger was harnessed through media/internet outlet rather than personal experience. It's common around the world to see this and pretty scary how easy it is to mobilize unaffected populations with misinformation and radicalized rhetoric... I'm ranting apparently.

Switzerland has an economic groundwork (weak governance of both financial and commodity sectors) that has relied on heavy economic sovereignty since well before the ECC. The UK on the other hand has always been reliant on the general trade conditions with it's neighbors. I don't think the UK is politically equipped to set-up such environment that will attract the level of finance or goods and services that Switzerland already has established over decades. While those Swiss economic indicators are impressive, I don't think a country can just achieve that without going through major changes first that would negatively impact the country (i.e. depreciate currency, relax tax and corruption laws, deregulate labor markets, have volatile interest rates in consistent battle to stabilize domestic savings/investment) which could all increase poverty rates and disrupt natural business cycles.

I don't think the UK is politically equipped to set-up such environment that will attract the level of finance or goods and services that Switzerland already has established over decades."

Have you ever been to London? 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, hedgeybaby said:

Have you ever been to London? 

love this, hats off to you Sir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is absolute rubbish.  Do you think these people want the Brits to up sticks? The retirees may lose access to "free," services, but so what. They should pay for them as they haven't added to the Spanish,  French etc system during their working lives.

What part is rubbish?

As I understand it (and I admit I may be misreading the rules), after Brexit both Britain and the EU countries will require non citizens to leave or apply for citizenship assuming they qualify. Although they may allow a grace period before non-citizens get booted, I don’t think it will be indefinite.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2019 at 11:29 PM, El Presidente said:

Ignoramus. 

they don't seem to be doing too poorly ....not being in the EU. 

  • Switzerland has the second highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the world. At the end of 2015 Swiss GDP per capita stood at CHF 77,943 (approx. EUR 73,000 or USD 81,000).
  • About 74% of Swiss GDP is generated by the service sector and 25% by industry. The contribution from the agricultural sector is less than 1%.
  • The European Union (EU) is Switzerland's main trading partner. Around 78% of Swiss imports are from the EU, while 43% of Swiss exports are destined for EU countries.
  • Most Swiss firms (over 99%) are small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). These are defined as companies with fewer than 250 employees.
  • The public debt-to-GDP ratio in Switzerland has fallen considerably in recent years, from 54.6% in 1998 to 34.7% in 2014.
  • Switzerland has the lowest rate of value-added tax in Europe. 8% is levied on most goods and services, 3.8% on accommodation services, and 2.5% on basic necessities and other everyday items.
  • Every year Switzerland spends close to 3% of its GDP, more than CHF 18.5 billion (around EUR 15 billion or USD 20.6 billion), on research and development . Over three-quarters of this funding comes from the private sector.

Not to forget that Switzerland is very much governed by the people, and politicians can (and will) be pulled up if they make unpopular decisions by way of referendums.  I renewed my Swiss passport recently, arrived Wednesday, today I received voting material relating to tax reforms and stuff related to Schengen.  This only works because the Swiss are inherently sensible (excluding myself, natch).

There was a referendum in the early '90s re. Switzerland becoming a full EU member, and it was narrowly defeated (50.3% vs 49.7%) - no nonsense about holding another one, decision was final.  Ask any Swiss person today what they think about the result, and they will all say 'thank God!' - amongst other things, they can see the idiocy of being ruled by an organisation whose economic policies are largely influenced by political ideology.  I could go on.  Ad nauseum.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc.