can someone explain brexit?


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OK Ken here goes, after much soul searching and contemplation here is the explanation of the current state of brexit: "We’ve all been on a night out with a mate who says “It’s shit here - let’s go som

This is such a complicated and contentious issue that I fear that its political nature could make it ultimately unsuitable for this forum. Already in this short thread I have seen comments that are fu

That's maybe a little unfair. The exit deal was negotiated, tortuously, over 18 months and agreed by all sides. The UK government agreed to it. The other 27 EU nations signed it within one day. P

4 hours ago, Akela3rd said:

Fine. But can you name any Swiss rock bands/punk bands/rappers?

I can, just from memory : Krokus (hard rock band), Stefan Eicher (very famous singer), The Young Gods (Indy rock band)…

And I'm neither young nor hip! :lol3:

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5 hours ago, Ryan said:

Absolutely.

But in order to get those trade terms with the EU, Switzerland has signed up to freedom of movement and work for EU citizens (there are some (time-limited) restrictions for newer EU members) 

https://www.expatica.com/ch/moving/visas/guide-for-eu-efta-citizens-and-relatives-moving-to-switzerland-443220/#Freedom

An end to freedom of movement for EU citizens was one of the main reasons people voted for Brexit. So pro-Brexit voters explicitly do not want the same deal that Switzerland has.

One of the founding principles of the EU, set out in the Treaty of Rome in 1957, and reinforced since, is the notion of "The Four Freedoms"

Freedom of movement of goods, capital, services and people.

http://en.euabc.com/word/506

Each of these, from the standpoint of a member country, can be seen as two things: goods in and out, services in and out, capital in and out and people in and out.

One of the main reasons Brexit has happened, is that voters wanted to restrict EU citizens moving to Britain. I think most voters were happy with the notion of British citizens having the right to live and work in Ireland, France and Spain etc. (and availing of public schools, health and social services in those countries)

So of the 8 freedoms, many Brexit voters voted that way to restrict one of them.

As an outsider, it does look a little like a case of "having one's cake and eating it too". 

 

And then there's this. 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/eu-negotiations_would-the-swiss-model-suit-a-post-brexit-britain/42128110

 

Right, The component of utmost importance for the Optimum Currency Area, proposed by Robert Mundell, was the freedom of labor. Without this component, the entire economic "harmonization" falls apart. So, it is really a non-negotiable subject for the EU, and then becomes the main subject by Nationalists to instill fear and exploit those who are otherwise disenfranchised from the issue. We see that in voting patterns. Some of the sternest voters to leave are in areas where immigrants do not live. Most of their anger was harnessed through media/internet outlet rather than personal experience. It's common around the world to see this and pretty scary how easy it is to mobilize unaffected populations with misinformation and radicalized rhetoric... I'm ranting apparently.

Switzerland has an economic groundwork (weak governance of both financial and commodity sectors) that has relied on heavy economic sovereignty since well before the ECC. The UK on the other hand has always been reliant on the general trade conditions with it's neighbors. I don't think the UK is politically equipped to set-up such environment that will attract the level of finance or goods and services that Switzerland already has established over decades. While those Swiss economic indicators are impressive, I don't think a country can just achieve that without going through major changes first that would negatively impact the country (i.e. depreciate currency, relax tax and corruption laws, deregulate labor markets, have volatile interest rates in consistent battle to stabilize domestic savings/investment) which could all increase poverty rates and disrupt natural business cycles.

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I can, just from memory : Krokus (hard rock band), Stefan Eicher (very famous singer), The Young Gods (Indy rock band)…
And I'm neither young nor hip! 3:
Good effort! I do know both Krokus and The Young Gods, but didn't know they were Swiss and I've never heard of Stefan Eicher. Thanks@Smallclub.

Sent from my ActionMan walkie-talkie

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Though Brexit had certain economic and financial tent poles, my personal belief is that the rising tide of modern nationalism is what enticed the voters to get behind it.

I am fearful the so called nationalism espoused by those pushing for Brexit, and other so called nationalists around the world, are creating the ideal conditions for hateful rhetoric, segregation, and racism to thrive in. Personally, it seems to me this nationalist movement seems to share some roots with the wave of fascism that swept through Europe in the 20s and 30s. There are multiple similarities such as contempt for cultural diversity and liberal democracy, militaristic nationalism, and subordinating individual rights under the banner of the greater good. 

I hope I am wrong.

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https://dispatcheseurope.com/no-deal-no-problem-more-eu-countries-guarantee-british-expats-post-brexit-grace-periods/

I found this page rather interesting after watching a couple of videos linked in this thread. It appears that when/if Brexit happens any Brits living in the EU will have to go back to Britain since they will no longer be accepted as EU citizens. That would affect over 2 million Brits currently living in EU countries outside of Britain. What a shamble. Imagine settling down in a nice warm coastal town for a cozy retirement, and then you get booted out. Rough.  

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On 4/8/2019 at 8:37 AM, Philc2001 said:

https://dispatcheseurope.com/no-deal-no-problem-more-eu-countries-guarantee-british-expats-post-brexit-grace-periods/

I found this page rather interesting after watching a couple of videos linked in this thread. It appears that when/if Brexit happens any Brits living in the EU will have to go back to Britain since they will no longer be accepted as EU citizens. That would affect over 2 million Brits currently living in EU countries outside of Britain. What a shamble. Imagine settling down in a nice warm coastal town for a cozy retirement, and then you get booted out. Rough.  

That is absolute rubbish.  Do you think these people want the Brits to up sticks? The retirees may lose access to "free," services, but so what. They should pay for them as they haven't added to the Spanish,  French etc system during their working lives.

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On 4/6/2019 at 8:02 PM, Philc2001 said:

Though Brexit had certain economic and financial tent poles, my personal belief is that the rising tide of modern nationalism is what enticed the voters to get behind it.

I am fearful the so called nationalism espoused by those pushing for Brexit, and other so called nationalists around the world, are creating the ideal conditions for hateful rhetoric, segregation, and racism to thrive in. Personally, it seems to me this nationalist movement seems to share some roots with the wave of fascism that swept through Europe in the 20s and 30s. There are multiple similarities such as contempt for cultural diversity and liberal democracy, militaristic nationalism, and subordinating individual rights under the banner of the greater good. 

I hope I am wrong.

Brexit is actually more libertarian than nationalist.

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On 3/22/2019 at 1:53 PM, BoliDan said:

Right, The component of utmost importance for the Optimum Currency Area, proposed by Robert Mundell, was the freedom of labor. Without this component, the entire economic "harmonization" falls apart. So, it is really a non-negotiable subject for the EU, and then becomes the main subject by Nationalists to instill fear and exploit those who are otherwise disenfranchised from the issue. We see that in voting patterns. Some of the sternest voters to leave are in areas where immigrants do not live. Most of their anger was harnessed through media/internet outlet rather than personal experience. It's common around the world to see this and pretty scary how easy it is to mobilize unaffected populations with misinformation and radicalized rhetoric... I'm ranting apparently.

Switzerland has an economic groundwork (weak governance of both financial and commodity sectors) that has relied on heavy economic sovereignty since well before the ECC. The UK on the other hand has always been reliant on the general trade conditions with it's neighbors. I don't think the UK is politically equipped to set-up such environment that will attract the level of finance or goods and services that Switzerland already has established over decades. While those Swiss economic indicators are impressive, I don't think a country can just achieve that without going through major changes first that would negatively impact the country (i.e. depreciate currency, relax tax and corruption laws, deregulate labor markets, have volatile interest rates in consistent battle to stabilize domestic savings/investment) which could all increase poverty rates and disrupt natural business cycles.

I don't think the UK is politically equipped to set-up such environment that will attract the level of finance or goods and services that Switzerland already has established over decades."

Have you ever been to London? 

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That is absolute rubbish.  Do you think these people want the Brits to up sticks? The retirees may lose access to "free," services, but so what. They should pay for them as they haven't added to the Spanish,  French etc system during their working lives.

What part is rubbish?

As I understand it (and I admit I may be misreading the rules), after Brexit both Britain and the EU countries will require non citizens to leave or apply for citizenship assuming they qualify. Although they may allow a grace period before non-citizens get booted, I don’t think it will be indefinite.




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On 3/21/2019 at 11:29 PM, El Presidente said:

Ignoramus. 

they don't seem to be doing too poorly ....not being in the EU. 

  • Switzerland has the second highest gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in the world. At the end of 2015 Swiss GDP per capita stood at CHF 77,943 (approx. EUR 73,000 or USD 81,000).
  • About 74% of Swiss GDP is generated by the service sector and 25% by industry. The contribution from the agricultural sector is less than 1%.
  • The European Union (EU) is Switzerland's main trading partner. Around 78% of Swiss imports are from the EU, while 43% of Swiss exports are destined for EU countries.
  • Most Swiss firms (over 99%) are small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). These are defined as companies with fewer than 250 employees.
  • The public debt-to-GDP ratio in Switzerland has fallen considerably in recent years, from 54.6% in 1998 to 34.7% in 2014.
  • Switzerland has the lowest rate of value-added tax in Europe. 8% is levied on most goods and services, 3.8% on accommodation services, and 2.5% on basic necessities and other everyday items.
  • Every year Switzerland spends close to 3% of its GDP, more than CHF 18.5 billion (around EUR 15 billion or USD 20.6 billion), on research and development . Over three-quarters of this funding comes from the private sector.

Not to forget that Switzerland is very much governed by the people, and politicians can (and will) be pulled up if they make unpopular decisions by way of referendums.  I renewed my Swiss passport recently, arrived Wednesday, today I received voting material relating to tax reforms and stuff related to Schengen.  This only works because the Swiss are inherently sensible (excluding myself, natch).

There was a referendum in the early '90s re. Switzerland becoming a full EU member, and it was narrowly defeated (50.3% vs 49.7%) - no nonsense about holding another one, decision was final.  Ask any Swiss person today what they think about the result, and they will all say 'thank God!' - amongst other things, they can see the idiocy of being ruled by an organisation whose economic policies are largely influenced by political ideology.  I could go on.  Ad nauseum.

 

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5 minutes ago, MooseAMuffin said:

Can someone explain why Johnson asked the Queen to suspend Parliament? Also, what I was reading is that the Queen is damned if she does or damned if she doesn't. Is that true? I'm trying to understand this but I'm thoroughly confused ?

The tories are playing fast and loose with the UK's future.   But they as the rich, simply cannot lose....only the poor will feel the bitter sting of leaving without a deal

Boris Johnson was part of the elitist Bullingdon club, where part of induction is burning a £50 note in front of a homeless person.   thats the kind of people you're dealing with here. He simply does not give a monkey's.  Much like David Cameron, if it looks like we are going to go over the cliff, he'll just jump out at the last second, and go and get some city job, with all the other feckless Eton alumni.

By proroguing Parliament, they have ensured that they have limited time available to Labour, The Liberal Democrats, Green Party etc to work out a way of stopping 'no deal'.    They are basically bypassing democracy, which is rich, as they done nothing but whine like babies, about exactly that.   The union of remain, (who have spent most of there time, having hissy fits about who's the most powerful party not in power) will have a short time to try and outlaw the possibility of 'no deal' when they return, or they can attempt to have a no confidence vote in Boris.

As I understand it,  The Queen (or any head of the Monarchy) seeks to be apolitical (although it's pretty obvious she is a Tory).    Her agreeing to proroguing parliament, was pretty much a given, there is no real political comment from her in giving it the green light. 

God help us (or John Bercow)!  I'm sick of all our political parties, but the Tories in particular.  If they are so obsessed with de-regulated tax havens, why don't they all just bugger off to Montecarlo, they'll not be missed. 

 

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8 minutes ago, 99call said:

The tories are playing fast and loose with the UK's future.   But they as the rich, simply cannot lose....only the poor will feel the bitter sting of leaving without a deal

Boris Johnson was part of the elitist Bullingdon club, where part of induction is burning a £50 note in front of a homeless person.   thats the kind of people you're dealing with here. He simply does not give a monkey's.  Much like David Cameron, if it looks like we are going to go over the cliff, he'll just jump out at the last second, and go and get some city job, with all the other feckless Eton alumni.

By proroguing Parliament, they have ensured that they have limited time available to Labour, The Liberal Democrats, Green Party etc to work out a way of stopping 'no deal'.    They are basically bypassing democracy, which is rich, as they done nothing but whine like babies, about exactly that.   The union of remain, (who have spent most of there time, having hissy fits about who's the most powerful party not in power) will have a short time to try and outlaw the possibility of 'no deal' when they return, or they can attempt to have a no confidence vote in Boris.

As I understand it,  The Queen (or any head of the Monarchy) seeks to be apolitical (although it's pretty obvious she is a Tory).    Her agreeing to proroguing parliament, was pretty much a given, there is no real political comment from her in giving it the green light. 

God help us (or John Bercow)!  I'm sick of all our political parties, but the Tories in particular.  If they are so obsessed with de-regulated tax havens, why don't they all just bugger off to Montecarlo, they'll not be missed. 

 

Thanks for the info/perspective!

So what happens during the suspension? Does the party that's in control pretty much create their plans and then presents it to everyone when the suspension is over? 

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40 minutes ago, MooseAMuffin said:

So what happens during the suspension?

probably not a lot.   They are in the middle of doing what they do whenever the Tories are weak.  Try to convince the UK they are the modern new compassionate Tories.   They have had their boot on the throat of the poor for the last 10 years,  this is the bit where they offer a patronising ladle of water of lips to the down trodden......who will no doubt fall for it yet again. 

As bad as they are, they wouldn't even be in power, if the left weren't so disorganised and pathetic.   

I'm a remainer, (as you may have guessed) but I do believe in democracy.   I think a confirmatory vote is needed.  not on remaining,  but on yes/no to "no deal".    Nobody voted for no deal.   That was not a part of this mess that was ever advertised. 

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How does the no-deal Brexit play out with these issues:

  1. The so called "backstop" relating to cross border trade and immigration between Northern Ireland (which is in the UK), and Ireland (which remains in the EU)?
     
  2. UK expats residing in other EU countries, and EU expats residing in the UK? As I recall there was about 1.5M UK citizens living in EU, and about 3M EU citizens living in the UK. What about expats working or going to school in either side?
     
  3. General trade between EU and UK? How does this affect goods and services moving between the two, what sort of financial impact will this have on business, banking, and corporate entities operating in the two sides?

It all seems rather messy and complicated. My limited understanding of all this leads me to believe Boris Johnson is the chief "leave" proponent, and seems determined to get it done by the 10/31 deadline, and before an election can be called. With my limited knowledge of prorogue, it seems to me this is intended to hobble the opposition so they can't stop the hard exit. 

I bet many (if not most) brexiteers didn't think it would come to this.

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32 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

How does the no-deal Brexit play out with these issues:

  1. The so called "backstop" relating to cross border trade and immigration between Northern Ireland (which is in the UK), and Ireland (which remains in the EU)?
     
  2. UK expats residing in other EU countries, and EU expats residing in the UK? As I recall there was about 1.5M UK citizens living in EU, and about 3M EU citizens living in the UK. What about expats working or going to school in either side?
     
  3. General trade between EU and UK? How does this affect goods and services moving between the two, what sort of financial impact will this have on business, banking, and corporate entities operating in the two sides?

It all seems rather messy and complicated. My limited understanding of all this leads me to believe Boris Johnson is the chief "leave" proponent, and seems determined to get it done by the 10/31 deadline, and before an election can be called. With my limited knowledge of prorogue, it seems to me this is intended to hobble the opposition so they can't stop the hard exit. 

I bet many (if not most) brexiteers didn't think it would come to this.

1. No-one really knows how it will work. The EU wants physical borders.

2. EU expats in the UK will need to apply for settled status so they can remain, and UK expat are advised to register as residents of the country they live in. Moving across borders will be move difficult and take longer time.

3. With no-deal Brexit, there will be no formal trade agreement between the UK and the EU. They will need to rely on the terms set by the WTO. The UK govt has said many tariffs would be abolished on EU goods, but nobody from the EU has to agree about that for UK goods coming in. Customs checks at all UK ports will need to be re-instated. EU countries could really screw with the UK by keeping tariffs on their goods until a new trade agreement is nutted out. On the other side, the UK wouldn't want to keep tariffs, as that would inflate the cost of imported goods. The UK exports (mostly services) slightly less than it imports from the EU.

With a no-deal Brexit, life in the UK is going to be grim for a while. A recession is possible.

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6 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

With a no-deal Brexit, life in the UK is going to be grim for a while. A recession is possible.

So, where is the silver lining? What is motivating brexit? 

It seems hard to believe such a big step could be determined on a simple majority vote. 

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19 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

So, where is the silver lining? What is motivating brexit? 

 

Not being dictated to by Europe Inc.  

Switzerland seems to manage just fine operating outside of the EU. 

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1 minute ago, Philc2001 said:

So, where is the silver lining? What is motivating brexit? 

It seems hard to believe such a big step could be determined on a simple majority vote. 

What is motivating Brexit? Many in the UK felt sick and tired of the EU dictating to them what they can and can't do.

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On 8/29/2019 at 2:35 AM, 99call said:

The tories are playing fast and loose with the UK's future.   But they as the rich, simply cannot lose....only the poor will feel the bitter sting of leaving without a deal

Boris Johnson was part of the elitist Bullingdon club, where part of induction is burning a £50 note in front of a homeless person.   thats the kind of people you're dealing with here. He simply does not give a monkey's.  Much like David Cameron, if it looks like we are going to go over the cliff, he'll just jump out at the last second, and go and get some city job, with all the other feckless Eton alumni.

By proroguing Parliament, they have ensured that they have limited time available to Labour, The Liberal Democrats, Green Party etc to work out a way of stopping 'no deal'.    They are basically bypassing democracy, which is rich, as they done nothing but whine like babies, about exactly that.   The union of remain, (who have spent most of there time, having hissy fits about who's the most powerful party not in power) will have a short time to try and outlaw the possibility of 'no deal' when they return, or they can attempt to have a no confidence vote in Boris.

As I understand it,  The Queen (or any head of the Monarchy) seeks to be apolitical (although it's pretty obvious she is a Tory).    Her agreeing to proroguing parliament, was pretty much a given, there is no real political comment from her in giving it the green light. 

God help us (or John Bercow)!  I'm sick of all our political parties, but the Tories in particular.  If they are so obsessed with de-regulated tax havens, why don't they all just bugger off to Montecarlo, they'll not be missed. 

 

i certainly would not want to be seen to be defending boris, but i will say one thing. thank all divinities i do not have people judging me on the braindead, moronic, pompous, tosser acts my mates and i indulged in during our time at uni (and either side). we'd still be locked up for eternal stupidity. yes, that uni club, and so forth, looks appalling, but he was a dickhead uni student. it would be more surprising if he had not. and trust me, i could cite instances of equal stupidity from those on the left. i could produce a photo that would utterly destroy the career of one of our most respected and highly placed ambassadors and more than a few judges, with leanings both ways. but this was silly stuff from decades ago - thank those same divinities there was no 'social media'. 

i saw an earlier reference to russian interference. as far as the UK goes, i do not believe that for a second. presumably the object of interfering is to cause disruption, even chaos. now, the russians are not complete fools. they must realise that they are simply not in the same class when it comes to causing chaos as the brits themselves. what could the russkies possibly have done to create more disruption than what the locals have done? the russians would be sitting back laughing. all this without lifting a finger. 

more seriously, i suspect the queen was furious boris had her prorogue parliament, but she had no alternative. she is head of state but it is largely ceremonial and on those rare occasions when it is not, you can bet that things are in a massive mess (yes, they might well be already but it would have been so much worse if she refused). it would have meant that the govt would have fallen. she had no choice. 

i still do not think i have any clue why the UK decided to shoot themselves in both feet and plenty of other places with this mess (after the cricket, no sympathy at all). as i have said before, what was coming was obvious when i saw some moronic woman, about 19 and barely able to speak, interviewed the next morning. 'well, if i'd known that it was going to get up, i never would have voted for it'. priceless. 

it seems obvious that boris has found a wormhole to sneak through to get it over with. i understand this - the longer it drags on, the more likely it is to drag him down. so he has found a way to get it behind him as quickly as possible so he can focus on other things (to the world's relief). sure it is politically expedient but it is also a little bit cleverer than what we have seen/heard from all sides so far. which does not mean i think it an honorable action. just that boris is looking like a much better politician (and yes, that can be taken as a vile insult if one wishes) than all those around him. 

i do understand the calls for another vote about how to exit and so forth. but from an outsider's perspective, if the voters had concerns about that, why the hell did they vote for it in the first place? so their argument is that we did not know what would happen but we voted for it anyway. forgive me for a dry hanky. 

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2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i certainly would not want to be seen to be defending boris, but i will say one thing. thank all divinities i do not have people judging me on the braindead, moronic, pompous, tosser acts my mates and i indulged in during our time at uni (and either side). we'd still be locked up for eternal stupidity. yes, that uni club, and so forth, looks appalling, but he was a dickhead uni student. it would be more surprising if he had not. and trust me, i could cite instances of equal stupidity from those on the left. i could produce a photo that would utterly destroy the career of one of our most respected and highly placed ambassadors and more than a few judges, with leanings both ways. but this was silly stuff from decades ago - thank those same divinities there was no 'social media'. 

i saw an earlier reference to russian interference. as far as the UK goes, i do not believe that for a second. presumably the object of interfering is to cause disruption, even chaos. now, the russians are not complete fools. they must realise that they are simply not in the same class when it comes to causing chaos as the brits themselves. what could the russkies possibly have done to create more disruption than what the locals have done? the russians would be sitting back laughing. all this without lifting a finger. 

more seriously, i suspect the queen was furious boris had her prorogue parliament, but she had no alternative. she is head of state but it is largely ceremonial and on those rare occasions when it is not, you can bet that things are in a massive mess (yes, they might well be already but it would have been so much worse if she refused). it would have meant that the govt would have fallen. she had no choice. 

i still do not think i have any clue why the UK decided to shoot themselves in both feet and plenty of other places with this mess (after the cricket, no sympathy at all). as i have said before, what was coming was obvious when i saw some moronic woman, about 19 and barely able to speak, interviewed the next morning. 'well, if i'd known that it was going to get up, i never would have voted for it'. priceless. 

it seems obvious that boris has found a wormhole to sneak through to get it over with. i understand this - the longer it drags on, the more likely it is to drag him down. so he has found a way to get it behind him as quickly as possible so he can focus on other things (to the world's relief). sure it is politically expedient but it is also a little bit cleverer than what we have seen/heard from all sides so far. which does not mean i think it an honorable action. just that boris is looking like a much better politician (and yes, that can be taken as a vile insult if one wishes) than all those around him. 

i do understand the calls for another vote about how to exit and so forth. but from an outsider's perspective, if the voters had concerns about that, why the hell did they vote for it in the first place? so their argument is that we did not know what would happen but we voted for it anyway. forgive me for a dry hanky. 

I'll start where you finished off.  For many of us in the UK, the vote itself was the result of some internal Conservative identity crisis, that Cameron thought he could solve but failed.    As a country why were we ever exposed to this jeopardy, just so one political party could get their inner turmoil 'resolved'...........yep that went well. 

As I have pointed out before. Political campaigning is now rotten to its core, and this is largely the legacy of how Edward Bernays has woven advertising and voter profiling into the process.   Long long ago, political candidates stood for something, in the hope it was right, and that people would be inspired to vote for them.   Now the likes of Dominic Cummings are using social media and profiling to dupe and coerce the voting public, triggering them on false claims, so they vote in a manner they wish them too.

For instance look as this shameful video where an independent scrutiny committee is questioning Dominic Cummings on why vote leave had created campaign leaflets to look like NHS leaflets,  then get tory volunteers to hand them out in hospitals.     This guy is the oiliest snake in the grass you could ever be unlucky enough to meet.  And Now he's in Boris's cabinet. 

Ken, if someone has access to a decent standard of education and they squander it, then they are Stupid.   Sadly however, part of the class system the Tories seek to impose, (and have done so very effectively) is high levels of eductions for the elite, and poor education for the poor.  The poor have fallen for the deceit that all their woes are the fault of immigrants etc, when the reality is, is the Tory government have simply not invested in their communities for generations.    Their inability to discern the different between shit and Shinola,  is not laziness or idiocy, it that the ruling classes want them in a weak position,  want them easily led.  It's by design. 

As a side note Dominic Cummings is a very odd character in the fact he is on record as being anti the establishment, and anti Tory 

“People think, and by the way I think most people are right: ‘The Tory party is run by people who basically don’t care about people like me.’

“That is what most people in the country have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I am sad to say the public is basically correct. Tory MPs largely do not care about these poorer people. They don’t care about the NHS. And the public has kind of cottoned on to that.”

What Boris is doing may work, but that is not the point. There is no gambit for him or his kind. If he runs the UK over the cliff, he will not lose a penny, indeed a UK without regulations or workers rights, will benefit the rich.    He wins both ways.  But if he has calculated incorrectly, the poor suffer the consequences. The likes or Rees Mogg are spinning some entrepreneurial fantasy, where we can all get rich, once the shackles of Europe are thrown off.  The only problem is he has zero understanding or empathy, of how being from money, allows you to exploit your stature on others less fortunate. he doesn't know what it's like to have the wolf at the door.  If we were to believe Rees Mogg, the poor will now be able to rise up, and reap a fortune built on hard work,  the reality is however they will probably be more exposed to be working in a zero hours contract, in a factory (likely owned by a Tory), profiteering of weak labour regulations.    This is the kind of man who looks back at the industrial revolution, like it was all sweetness and light.   Yep never mind the child labour in the cotton mills.

This is the most repulsive thing about his kind, is that he feels as if he is manor born to take such a risk with the country.  Like his whole life it doesn't matter if he buggers up over and over again,  the social safety net of his class, will ensure his failures will not be punished.  

This whole mess should lead to an end to unregulated political campaigning,  they should be limited to 1 leaflet, and 1 party political broadcast each. the content of which should be governed by an independent scrutiny committee.   I say this of both the leave and remain, they both had falsehoods in their campaigns, and they both had funding violations.   

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