coffee. how anal can you be?

[Ken Gargett]

 

 

 

the countries with bad coffee was going off in all sorts of directions so i thought i would toss this one in.

i have mentioned a mate of mine - bones of his arse type guy but worked endlessly - scientist. developed an anti cancer something (no idea) but it was picked up by the big boys in the states and as a result, he now has to find new ways to spend his dosh. big on music - his speakers cost more than most people's house (and are about the same size) and the sound system he has in a designated room tallies over the mill (and still didn't make jazz sound even basically acceptable). bands have toured with gear that comes nowhere near his. 

he is a coffee fanatic and now can do it his way. got rid of his $20K machine for some reason and replaced it with a $30k one. the blends are weighed by grams to the first decimal point, as is the temperature measured. hey, it is one of his great interests and he can afford to indulge himself. and he does make seriously good coffee. 

this was the latest email i got from him. he is one of those guys keen to test both sides of every theory and always open to contrary thoughts. 

"I will be hopefully stepping up to the next level when my precision roaster arrives next month from Norway - https://www.roestcoffee.com/about-us/

 

It will do 100g at a time, and then should be used immediately. Apparently it is bunkum that the beans need to be rested after roasting

 

I found this interesting dude on U Tube who claims the coffee must be light roast and then you get expression of terroir from the individual estates, just like wine. 

I will getting light roast profiles with the roaster, developed by the German barista champion. He will be using the ROEST in the forthcoming world barista championship. I will apply these profiles as a starter for the Mareeba coffee and then develop my own.
Should be a lot of fun.

 

i keep telling him i'll bring my own nescafe. i'm not actually that crass, and my little machine makes me happy most of the time (i do have an occasional miss), but i wonder if anyone else is as serious?

as someone more serious about wine than coffee, it raises the interesting cincept as to whether a heavily toasted barrel removes the concept of terroir from the contents. 

[Shelby07]

i wonder what this fellow would think about our discussions on temperature, humidity and water content? ?

Everybody has their passion. 

[Islandboy]

I can appreciate his passion, especially given his access to resources beyond my comprehension. I'd probably do the same in a similar situation. I'm more of a mister Spock kind of guy in general. Function over form. I just need a tasty cup of unaldurated black coffee to get things rolling in the work week. Given the promise of a fine cigar to end the day, I'm a happy camper. 

[smokum]

Very dark roasting hides some of the more delicate flavors and acidity. It heats the sugars in the bean to a more caramel smokey type flavor and masks much of the floral or citrus notes. I personally like a darker roast for the sweetness. I buy mine from a local roaster in Chicago. Italian family. And he willnot do a very dark “espresso” roast. He calls his a Roman/Northern italian roast. Its good stuff. Your friend is going to make some really nice coffee beans . Enjoy them.

[BadBadMan]

I’m not even in the realm of seriousness as your mate (I wish I had the time and patience to be), and I leave the roasting up to the professionals, but I certainly can echo his opinion on light roast coffee.  A few years ago I got somewhat serious in my morning coffee routine by weighing my coffee and water in grams for each pot, investigated in a proper burr grinder and brewing gear, and joined a mail order coffee club that delivers beans just days after they’ve been roasted. What I learned is that when you roast beans longer you’re actually cooking off the more volatile flavors that make that particular coffee unique. It’s similar to smoking a cigar too fast, you lose the nuance that you’re after. It took me awhile to adjust my pallet having learned this because I sort of had to unlearn what I thought coffee should taste like. The dark roast flavor is actually favored by mass roasters because, at times, it can be a tool to mask inferior quality beans and to make a more homogeneous product. 

[DaBoot]

Definitely a fan of the lighter roast, freshly roasted within a week is preferable, now I’ve thought about going deep down this rabbit hole, but I won’t and enjoy my cup of “above average joe”. But I do find the science to coffee interesting and intriguing 

[tsolomon]

I'm one of those people who is very particular about my coffee.  I roast my own beans and have a top notch burr grinder and then weigh the beans and use a pour over clever coffee dripper.  The ideal roast is one that you like and although the darker roasts that I prefer do cover up some of the nuisances of the beans, I still prefer the darker roasts.  Lately I have been playing around with roasting to see if I can get some of the more subtle favors back by pushing my roasts to 1st crack and then lowering the temps as I roast to 2nd crack.  I think it has helped, but I really need to do some cuppings of different roasts to get a true comparison.  

[Fugu]

12 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

as someone more serious about wine than coffee, it raises the interesting cincept as to whether a heavily toasted barrel removes the concept of terroir from the contents.

It certainly does! There are similarities in wine, coffee and tobacco. All processing can have supportive or impairing effects. Here, for coffee, not just an interesting "concept" or opinion - it's a proven and widely accepted fact. The darker the roast, the less you get the specific characteristics of the bean in single origin coffee (may it now be called "terroir" or else). The darker the roast the more "similarity" you get between different varieties. Very dark roasting also is a means to mask certain flaws in the raw material. But the often more procounced fruity and estery notes of lighter roasts are not for everyone, may even become unpleasant at times ("green tomato"). Way more difficult to control by the roaster (a matter of a few seconds / fraction of a minute in the process), why you don't see much lighter-roast in cheaper or mass-produced offerings. A speciality for sure that demands top-notch raw material and a skilled roaster, willing to experiment with every new charge.

Disagree with the "no need for resting-after-roasting" opinion there. But perhaps to some extent a matter of personal taste preferences.

[Cbarber]

12 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

"I found this interesting dude on U Tube who claims the coffee must be light roast and then you get expression of terroir from the individual estates, just like wine."

 

Starbucks apparently over roasts their beans in order to have a consistent flavor.  This over roasting will hide the various flavors of the beans from different areas.  It follows the same idea of a cigar burning too hot and ruining the flavors. 

[ac031898]

When it comes to coffee, can't be more anal than this:

Kopi Luwak - Cat Poop Coffee

[CaptainQuintero]

I'm sure the coffee forums out there are just as anal as we are about 5%rh differences in our humidors

Think what it would look to 'normals'  if we all had a get together!

[Hookmaker]

I did a study of coffee during my pharmaceutical study years. It is a scientific fact that a lot (A LOT) of the volatile aetheric oils - yes those that contain the Flavour complexities - are released during grinding. Therefore the ground beans have to be packed quickly and stored for a minimum of 24 hours for those oils to settle back in. In this way you get as much possible of the total taste profiles of the bean. 

Id say that guy in the top video is the 15 year old pimple faced whiner who knows not what he’s talking about ?

[1fastmach1]

I have a keurig.

[BoliDan]

5 hours ago, Fugu said:

It certainly does! There are similarities in wine, coffee and tobacco. All processing can have supportive or impairing effects. Here, for coffee, not just an interesting "concept" or opinion - it's a proven and widely accepted fact. The darker the roast, the less you get the specific characteristics of the bean in single origin coffee (may it now be called "terroir" or else). The darker the roast the more "similarity" you get between different varieties. Very dark roasting also is a means to mask certain flaws in the raw material. But the often more procounced fruity and estery notes of lighter roasts are not for everyone, may even become unpleasant at times ("green tomato"). Way more difficult to control by the roaster (a matter of a few seconds / fraction of a minute in the process), why you don't see much lighter-roast in cheaper or mass-produced offerings. A speciality for sure that demands top-notch raw material and a skilled roaster, willing to experiment with every new charge.

Disagree with the "no need for resting-after-roasting" opinion there. But perhaps to some extent a matter of personal taste preferences.

Yeah, To me, light roast is way too acidic and has in fact made me vomit on two occasions when I had it with nothing to eat yet. I also don't find floral or fruity flavors appealing in coffee, cigars or whisky. I've grown accustomed to enjoying savory and bitter flavors in in all of my vices, so that's what I usually go for Dark coffee, Islay Scotch and fuller cigars. I like a nice medium to dark roast with RO water (black) with a Party short or Bolivar PC/CJ in the morning.

[Colt45]

Starbucks from the bag at home, Folgers from the plastic tub at work.

Pinkie tucked in at all times.

[egoo33]

Coffee for me is gasoline I need it to run thankfully I’m not particular as I like it black, if I could I’d eat the beans or the grinds direct from the bag I would. 

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, Fugu said:

It certainly does! There are similarities in wine, coffee and tobacco. All processing can have supportive or impairing effects. Here, for coffee, not just an interesting "concept" or opinion - it's a proven and widely accepted fact. The darker the roast, the less you get the specific characteristics of the bean in single origin coffee (may it now be called "terroir" or else). The darker the roast the more "similarity" you get between different varieties. Very dark roasting also is a means to mask certain flaws in the raw material. But the often more procounced fruity and estery notes of lighter roasts are not for everyone, may even become unpleasant at times ("green tomato"). Way more difficult to control by the roaster (a matter of a few seconds / fraction of a minute in the process), why you don't see much lighter-roast in cheaper or mass-produced offerings. A speciality for sure that demands top-notch raw material and a skilled roaster, willing to experiment with every new charge.

Disagree with the "no need for resting-after-roasting" opinion there. But perhaps to some extent a matter of personal taste preferences.

from the wine perspective, it has never made any sense to me that some critics are keen to remove the human aspect from terroir. this is just more confirmation. 

[cmbarton]

I’ve played a “Which could you give up forever game” where I have two choices from which to pick over the other.  If played long enough, you’ll eventually get to the one thing you can never give up.  Mine is always coffee.  Always.

Five methods of brewing at home: Jura semi-automatic espresso machine, Bunn traditional coffee maker, pour over, press, and percolator.  Like children, I love them all equally.  

IMHO, there is simply no better compliment to a good cigar than a fine espresso. 

[RupertPupkin]

My wife is into all these reality/ docuseries shows (hoarders, true crime stuff and my strange addiction) There was a particular episode on My Strange Addiction that I recall.. When I saw the title of this thread, I couldn’t resist sharing lol

 

[smokum]

Looks like it may be dark roast. Before and after. 

[GrouchoMarx]

Certainly not "anal"  about my coffee.

I only drink espresso, but I do have a good quality machine AND a burr grinder.

So, I guess  instead of anal, I'm just "half assed" ??

[Gamehawker]

I am pretty anal about my coffee.

I home-roast my own beans, grind my beans with a commercial Macap coffee grinder and brew with my commercial Bunn coffee brewer.

[Puros Y Vino]

I only drink espresso but I don't have it in me to get all the proper roasting, grinding, brewing equipment. I appreciate a good cup of espresso at some of the better coffee shop or restaurants.  But at home, classic Nespresso for me.  I do indulge in espresso made from Cuban beans on my stovetop unit. 

[blakeLA]

I at one point had a burr grinder, roasted at home, paid careful attention to water temperature, etc.  Nothing on the level of your friend, but even what I was doing just wasn't sustainable for me.  I love the fruity flavors that come from light roasted Ethiopian coffee that's not been sitting around for too long.   There are plenty of great coffee places where I live that now handle all that hard work for me if I feel my nespresso isn't cutting it.  But great to have a friend like that!  Nice to reap the rewards of someone else's passion

[Buck14]

I cannot stand light roast coffee - way too acidic gives me instant heart burn - Gimme a dark roast everyday.

I have a Italian stove top Moka. A Turkish coffee stovetop setup and a French Press. Good enough for me.