Jazz on a Sunday evening. One tune explained.

[Ryan]

I saw someone post recently something along the lines of Jazz wasn't for them.

I can completely understand that much of jazz sounds like made up noise to a lot of people, certainly from Bebop on.

It took me a long time to begin to get an understanding of where some of it was coming from.

If you have 10 minutes give this video a look and you'll see some of the extraordinary genius that has added to jazz over the years.

There's a little bit of music theory in it but not too much. It goes a little way in explaining why some things "just sound right".

 

[MoeFOH]

Nice one. I have to say, you can lump me into the "jazz really isn't my thing" crowd. That said, we took in several jazz clubs when we stayed in Harlem last year, and it was magic. Live performances encompassing virtuoso musicians rarely disappoints. Of any genre. But I find my appreciation doesn't go much beyond that. I've got several jazz albums, but I can never find a place for them in my "go to" listening. At best, I'll put them on because I'm craving a big change in the aural scenery. 

Still, I'm not ruling out a larger place for it in my collection. Totally agree that, for some, it's one of the finer examples of something that takes a while to get the palate for. 

Good vid. Cheers. : )

[dvickery]

Sure wish I could “like” more than once .

ahh to spend “a night in Tunisia”

derrek

[Shelby07]

This is a great video. Thanks. The first time I heard Coltrane was probably around 1963. I was 13 at the time. I had been taking music lessons for about 5 years and was in love with jazz. The first album I heard was blue train (I think I still have it) and it was both confusing and fascinating at the same time. The more I listened the more I got “comfortable” with his progressions and changes. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone who is just getting interested in jazz, but if is definitely something any jazz fan would eventually recognize the genius of. 

[Colt45]

Like any overall genre of music, there are varying styles within each genre. We might understand the language / theory and have an objective appreciation, but that might not translate into "liking it" as opposed to "getting it".

I'm a fan of the Bartok string quartets. They are physically demanding to listen to - physically draining. Like some styles of jazz. Or metal, etc. It's not an issue of understanding what they're doing musically, but how what they're doing actually has a physical effect.

One of my favorite jazz albums is the Best of Miles Davis and john Coltrane - a bit easier to listen to. Thelonius Monk in Paris - a bit of both sides...

[Çnote]

Imo, jazz is the best music for cigars.

[Ken Gargett]

i understand that some love jazz (apparently some blokes like dressing up in nappies and getting spanked and i have never understood that either) and i will confess that there is some latin jazz that i really do like, but the vast majority sounds like wannabee tossers who were bullied at school who now think that they are the coolest humans on the planet, putting their own, inevitably lesser, interpretation on unfinished music that already resembled the soundtrack of a car wreck. and they are encouraged by a crowd who are mostly so scared of being exposed as having no idea about what they are listening to, that they applaud wildly every opportunity. if you played them a track of someone shutting cupboard doors, they'd give it a standing ovation. it is the ultimate in the musical version of the emperor's new clothes. 

but i understand that some love it and good luck to you. 

[Akela3rd]

i understand that some love jazz (apparently some blokes like dressing up in nappies and getting spanked and i have never understood that either) and i will confess that there is some latin jazz that i really do like, but the vast majority sounds like wannabee tossers who were bullied at school who now think that they are the coolest humans on the planet, putting their own, inevitably lesser, interpretation on unfinished music that already resembled the soundtrack of a car wreck. and they are encouraged by a crowd who are mostly so scared of being exposed as having no idea about what they are listening to, that they applaud wildly every opportunity. if you played them a track of someone shutting cupboard doors, they'd give it a standing ovation. it is the ultimate in the musical version of the emperor's new clothes. 
but i understand that some love it and good luck to you. 

Perfect Ken, apart from the liking Latin jazz...

Sent from my ActionMan walkie-talkie

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, Akela3rd said:

Perfect Ken, apart from the liking Latin jazz...

Sent from my ActionMan walkie-talkie
 

i had to toss them a small bone, at least. 

[Akela3rd]

i had to toss them a small bone, at least. 

Don't, they'll play a bloody solo on it.

Sent from my ActionMan walkie-talkie

[Colt45]

27 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i understand that some love jazz (apparently some blokes like dressing up in nappies and getting spanked and i have never understood that either) and i will confess that there is some latin jazz that i really do like, but the vast majority sounds like wannabee tossers who were bullied at school who now think that they are the coolest humans on the planet, putting their own, inevitably lesser, interpretation on unfinished music that already resembled the soundtrack of a car wreck. and they are encouraged by a crowd who are mostly so scared of being exposed as having no idea about what they are listening to, that they applaud wildly every opportunity. if you played them a track of someone shutting cupboard doors, they'd give it a standing ovation. it is the ultimate in the musical version of the emperor's new clothes. 

but i understand that some love it and good luck to you. 

How clueless can a person be.

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, Colt45 said:

How clueless can a person be.

but colt, i did say that i understood some love it. maybe they'll wise up but if not, i'm happy to let them listen to it, as long as i don't have to. you should be more broadminded!! (can we assume one of those winky-eye little yellow things is inserted here). 

[Colt45]

10 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

but colt, i did say that i understood some love it. maybe they'll wise up but if not, i'm happy to let them listen to it, as long as i don't have to. you should be more broadminded!! (can we assume one of those winky-eye little yellow things is inserted here). 

No KG, at some point meant in the nicest possible way doesn't cut it. I think I'm quite broad minded when it comes to music.

[Shelby07]

1 hour ago, Colt45 said:

How clueless can a person be.

As they say, consider the source. This coming from someone who thinks Springsteen is a musical genius on par with Mozart. 

Oh yeah... ?

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Shelby07 said:

As they say, consider the source. This coming from someone who thinks Springsteen is a musical genius on par with Mozart. 

Oh yeah... ?

ah, if we want to go down that road...

first, i do not recall ever making that comparison but if you believe it suits... perhaps toss in shakespeare as well. i mean, poor bruce has to do lyrics and music. 

but if we are going to compare jazz and bruce, sweet jesus spare me. jazz is fingernails on a blackboard by the delusional in comparison. one would hate for anyone to go deaf, of course, but if one did, the only blessing would be never having to listen that twaddle ever again. and even better, never having to listen to gibbering fans who make about as much sense as a dog slobbering into its dinner. 

i'll state again, it is largely supported by the desperate who are so concerned that they won't be seen as cool if they don't pretend to like jazz (and it goes without saying that i am sure that no one on this forum falls into that category) and i have asked enough of these dills to explain it or to reveal the secrets or even provide the most minimal insight and they never can - it always comes down to some intangible crap that they claim to have and which anyone who doesn't understand doesn't.

but each to their own. i'll stick with music. 

now, please forgive me but today, i have devoted more time to jazz than i would normally wish to allocate in a year and i do have some deadlines, so i am signing off. feel free to explain the wonders of broken blender music to the world, and demean someone who clearly has extraordinary talent, to your hearts' content but i am afraid i can no longer play. 

[Shelby07]

9 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

ah, if we want to go down that road...

first, i do not recall ever making that comparison but if you believe it suits... perhaps toss in shakespeare as well. i mean, poor bruce has to do lyrics and music. 

but if we are going to compare jazz and bruce, sweet jesus spare me. jazz is fingernails on a blackboard by the delusional in comparison. one would hate for anyone to go deaf, of course, but if one did, the only blessing would be never having to listen that twaddle ever again. and even better, never having to listen to gibbering fans who make about as much sense as a dog slobbering into its dinner. 

i'll state again, it is largely supported by the desperate who are so concerned that they won't be seen as cool if they don't pretend to like jazz (and it goes without saying that i am sure that no one on this forum falls into that category) and i have asked enough of these dills to explain it or to reveal the secrets or even provide the most minimal insight and they never can - it always comes down to some intangible crap that they claim to have and which anyone who doesn't understand doesn't.

but each to their own. i'll stick with music. 

now, please forgive me but today, i have devoted more time to jazz than i would normally wish to allocate in a year and i do have some deadlines, so i am signing off. feel free to explain the wonders of broken blender music to the world, and demean someone who clearly has extraordinary talent, to your hearts' content but i am afraid i can no longer play. 

If you like Springsteen, that’s great. I have no problem with that. If you don’t like jazz, that’s cool, too. You can say so. No problem. You don’t have to listen to it. No problem. But keep your opinions focused on the music, not the people who truly enjoy it and get as much pleasure and excitement out of it as you get out of Bruce. 

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Shelby07 said:

If you like Springsteen, that’s great. I have no problem with that. If you don’t like jazz, that’s cool, too. You can say so. No problem. You don’t have to listen to it. No problem. But keep your opinions focused on the music, not the people who truly enjoy it and get as much pleasure and excitement out of it as you get out of Bruce. 

okay, very quickly and then i really do have to go. 

my comments were general. colt then made them personal and you followed up directing your post at me personally. so with respect, your post is just a touch hypocritical. and even after that, i kept my posts general in nature. i did not complain about the direction you guys had taken because to be honest, criticised for not liking jazz, water off a duck's back. 

as for the "fans" of jazz, they are or are seen by many, as part of the problem. this might not be apparent to those who truly do appreciate and understand jazz but it sure is to many of us. i went through a period where i really tried to learn about jazz and to understand it (and hoped that would lead to some form of appreciation). i listened to it as much as i could, i went to concerts, i went to jazz clubs - don't know if it is still there but i spent a lot of time in 'ronnie scott's'?? in london, which we were assured was the place for jazz.

i came away with two impressions. try as i might, i think 99% of it is dire. secondly, there are some people who do seem to appreciate it (never denied that) but there are also a great many who do not but carry on like they are obsessed fans and experts, can't explain a thing about it to you and are terrified of being exposed as frauds. they push it down throats because they believe it makes them cool. it goes hand in glove with the music and that does not, at least as far as i have seen, happen anywhere near to the same extent with any other form of music. 

i have no problem with those who do like it, and said so several times in this thread. it is the many utter frauds i have an issue with. and they tie themselves in with the music, so they get mentioned. in a general and not personal sense of course. 

knock yourselves out, but i really do have to go. 

[Shelby07]

@Ken Gargett Appreciate the explanation. Thanks. I apologize if I misconstrued  your intention. 

[Habana Mike]

I like jazz.

Sure, some of it makes no sense to me and I don't care for it.

There is a lot which is difficult to fully appreciate as it isn't as straightforward or as melodic the large majority prefer.

Finally some is absolutely amazing.

I like the jazz that I like as much as I like any other form of music.

I don't care for most of Springsteen's catalog though there are a couple of his songs that are genius, much like any other form of music.

[cmbarton]

Saying “I don’t like jazz” is like saying “I don’t like rock.”  That’s a huge statement. Think about all of the, literally, hundreds of types of rock.  For every Pink Floyd, there’s Thelonius Monk.  For every Bob Dylan, there’s Bill Evans.  There’s something for everyone.

That’s why whenever I hear someone say they don’t like jazz, I say, “You haven’t found the jazz you like yet.”

[bpm32]

I think there was so much crappy jazz-like music in the 1970s through the first half of the 1980s in TV, B-movies, and commercials that a lot of people that grew up in that era hate jazz. I don’t know that younger people have the same visceral dislike for it. Most of the greats are long dead and certainly no musicians devoting their lives to jazz music now are doing it to get rich—far from it.

Listening to A Love Supreme now—Resolution. 

[Wailbait]

Insofar as it sometimes feels like a relic from a previous life, I will nevertheless wade in.  I used to play (quite awhile back) but also taught a History of Jazz class at university so I have come head on with both the "Jazz is wanky noodling" and "I don't like Jazz" POVs.  Both are actually GREAT ways to enter the understanding of the trope.  Jazz, like any other art forms with history, tends to wear its history on its sleeve.  Of course there are a few "emperors new clothes players" but I'd argue that exists in all art forms.  As someone, for example that likes Ad Reinhardt, I can't tell you how many times I hear, "Wait - that's just a black canvas?"  To those I often say that, embedded within that black canvas, is a lot of story and tradition.  Same as with jazz.  When heard in a vacuum a lot of it sounds like wanky noodling.  But there is a deep tradition that pervades (and influences others).  To the "I don't like jazz" statement, I can relate to that.  Some musical traditions do and don't resonate with me.  It's when the "I don't like jazz" argument intersects with "Jazz is wanky noodling" that I sort of bristle.  I could go further, but suffice it to say, "I don't like X" is usually fine.  "X is bad" is usually fine.  "I don't like X because X is bad" can be a difficult thing to hear.  

 

[Ken Gargett]

6 hours ago, Shelby07 said:

@Ken Gargett Appreciate the explanation. Thanks. I apologize if I misconstrued  your intention. 

sorry i had to shoot off. am back. no issues at all. i did get a giggle when colt put up his post - thought well that goes in the vault for later use. just didn't think later use would be about 12 minutes. but colt and i go far enough back that no offence at all.

i sometimes think that styles of music are like football codes (not so much teams, but codes). and we have four of them here. toss in NFL etc. some people love them all. others some. but one can argue until blue in the face and we all know that what i say will not change a single opinion or allegiance, nor will what others say change mine. jazz is perhaps a little more like a team. there will be teams you like/hate, and it is just the team, and there will be some where you dislike not only the team, but their admin, their fans and so on. for me, man u (although some of my best mates are rusted on man u fans), cronulla (ever since i found out years ago that a mate, a fanatical cronulla supporter, who would often come around to ask if he could have some money for milk for his baby, was stealing my cigars and gambling the dosh away - there may be little logic to it but that is me), collingwood (it would be un-australian not to), the rest of the NFC east. 

so all part of the fun. 

and of course, if anyone is going to challenge bruce, i will lead the cavalry. but hey, i took an old girlfriend to not one but two bruce concerts and she fell asleep both times. once, i could somehow justify (or at least ignore) but twice? i should add that she was a kylie minogue fan. the things we do. 

[Fuzz]

13 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

and of course, if anyone is going to challenge bruce, i will lead the cavalry. but hey, i took an old girlfriend to not one but two bruce concerts and she fell asleep both times. once, i could somehow justify (or at least ignore) but twice? i should add that she was a kylie minogue fan. the things we do. 

I know what you mean, Ken. I had to endure the Spice Girls movie because of a young lady. To this day, I still can't say if it was worth it.

[Ken Gargett]

7 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I know what you mean, Ken. I had to endure the Spice Girls movie because of a young lady. To this day, I still can't say if it was worth it.

fuzz, you do realise that this is the complete opposite in every way?