Canada to introduce plain packaging November 9

[CaptainQuintero]

  That sucks to hear Canadian BOTL's  I remember a few years bacj chatting to an old couple in the UK in their tiny little tobacconist down in Cornwall, this was when the UK legislation was coming in, and they were just visibility distraught and just deflated at how they would even begin with the changes. The man pulled out a 2 inch thick book they'd been sent which set out how they must black out their shop window and remove things like wooden Indians from outside the store, where to install shutters to cover their displays etc. This was for a one room 10'x20' 16th century cottage in a tiny fishing village.

  It stuck me as how backwards the whole issue is when yesterday I was queuing to pay for some bread at a supermarket and behind the cashier the tobacco is all sealed behind a grey shutter so the children can't see it. But next to it was a full 1m x 1m LED lit cabinet display full of vape liquid and a bunch of teenagers were in front of me picking out their liquids based on what tasted the most like sweets/candy 

  World's gone bonkers

[Connoisseur Kim]

It is definitely 'End Game' for both Canadian and global BOTLs. I am afraid that the governments all over the world will put cigar businesses into oblivion in some day, just like how Thanos wiped out half of the universe in the Avengers: Infinity War.

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[Homer]

Why is Imperial tobacco selling its share of habanos sa? Because of this is just the start.

[Fuzz]

5 hours ago, Baccy said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere but how exactly does this work? Do the retailers receive the boxes then have to wrap the boxes in some sort of plain paper?

Distributors do the plain packaging (ie apply the labels, wrap the boxes, apply warning stickers), then send to retailers.

[BarryVT]

14 hours ago, CrownN7eveN said:

Definitely a crying shame.  But on the bright side, I rather see plain packaging, then those absolutely horrid warning labels, granted they no longer need to be applied due to the plain packaging...

The only thing is with plain packaging,  you not only lose the box, you also lose bands and tubos. To me, mentally, that is part of the smoking experience.  Good luck identifying fakes by just visually inspecting. 

[BrightonCorgi]

If Canadien kids can afford $25+ cigars, that's marvelous!  

[ComancheKeen]

Basically unaffordable to buy from B&M’s here in the first place, but this looks like the final nail in the coffin. Sad.

[Puros Y Vino]

4 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Distributors do the plain packaging (ie apply the labels, wrap the boxes, apply warning stickers), then send to retailers.

Is that the case in Aus?  I think in Canada the retailers will do that work.  My friend at LCDH mentioned that they are considering providing original bands and boxes to purchasers of full boxes.

[ebhead]

2 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

Is that the case in Aus?  I think in Canada the retailers will do that work.  My friend at LCDH mentioned that they are considering providing original bands and boxes to purchasers of full boxes.

Maybe for cigars but I would think the manufacturer would need to do it for cigarettes. Unless, it's their purpose to completely cancel sales by bureaucracy overload.

I can't see a mom and pop shops where the bulk of their revenue/sales is cigarettes repackaging them. 

[ebhead]

my favourite things, well related to the rules - random points for my amusement:

Manner of display

31 (1) If a brand name is displayed on an exterior surface of a primary package or secondary package and a health warning is also displayed on that surface, the brand name must be oriented parallel to and in the same direction as the health warning and must be centered in the area of that surface that remains unoccupied by the health warning and any other information that is required or authorized by or under the Act, any other Act of Parliament or any Act of the legislature of a province.

Placement

36 In the case of a package that has a rectangular cuboid shape when it is closed, the declaration of net quantity and the common name of the tobacco product must be displayed in such a manner that the last letter of that information is 5 mm from the bottom and right edges of the package.

52 Any lining that is placed in a primary package that contains cigars must

• (a) have a smooth texture, without any raised features, embossing, decorative ridges, bulges or other irregularities, unless such features are necessary to hold the cigar in place or to remove it from the lining; and
• (b) meet the requirements of paragraphs 23(a) to (c).

Just some random rules...

[Squarehead]

And if you see or find any politician who smokes a cigar,Hang'em for treason

[Cigar_83]

I haven't followed this closely enough, so basically from the current packaging to now a package with no symbols at all both outside and inside packaging?   

[PigFish]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

All good mate. I am sure it wasn't intentional. 

It is simply an open wound and I feel for so many of the Canadian B&M owners that I have met and conversed with.  There is no sugarcoating the effects. 

One of the reasons that we are launching the Nudies brand is for Plain Packaging countries.  The Govt doesn't even blink when it sends business owners to the wall. 

 

 

Governments should fear the populace! At best you get plain packaging. Let it go long enough, you get Venezuela!

Vote tobacco!

-the Pig

[ebhead]

And some more info from the Rules itself. This is related to the background materials included in the details of the act:

"...The compliance cost for industry analysis assumes that there will be approximately 10% consolidation of brands for cigarettes and little cigars, 80% consolidation of brands for pipe tobacco and 45–50% consolidation of brands for cigars, smokeless tobacco and cigarette tobacco."

Anyway, what's really apparent in the overall act is that it is geared primarily to cigarettes. It just comes across as cigar regulations were just tacked on with the assumption that manufacture and sale of cigar packages are the same as cigarettes. There's clearly no rhyme or reason on the rules. The whole point is to strangle sales of all tobacco (and I have my thoughts on the fight against the rules over the years, but will keep it to myself).

One group I have not seen in this the impact it will have on shops and sales on reserves.

As well, considering the amount of Chinese cigarettes smuggled into this country this is just going to drive hard core smokers to that. There were many buyers I know that would get ziploc bags of 100-200 cigarettes on the cheap, or under retailer counters in stores. 

jsut as a point of reference I smoke both cigarettes (burning and heating) and cigars. Hence why my overall interest in the rules and not specifically the cigar sections.

[ebhead]

and here's something else found in the rules - key section in bold:

Repackaging of cigars

Most cigars currently sold in Canada are imported; sales of cigars produced domestically account for less than 12% of the market. Nonetheless, for many foreign manufacturers, Canada is a relatively small market and sales in Canada are unlikely to be high enough to justify a substantial investment in redesigning their packaging. The industry representatives consulted anticipate that the introduction of PSA measures will lead to a substantial consolidation in the variety of cigars available on the Canadian market.

It is estimated that the introduction of PSA measures will lead to a 50% reduction in the number of cigar SKUs available on the Canadian market. The analysis assumes that all cigars that remain on the market will be repackaged by Canadian manufacturers or importers to comply with the PSA measures. The tobacco manufacturers consulted estimated that implementing a repackaging system will cost between $3,300 and $15,000 per SKU. They envisioned this as a one-time cost associated with designing and producing compliant packaging, coupled with establishing a facility capable of receiving imported cigars and transferring them to this packaging. The estimated costs range from $5.75 million to $25.9 million (present value) over 30 years, equating to annualized costs from $473,000 to $2.1 million associated with cigar repackaging.

[TBird55]

6 hours ago, LonesomeHabanoAficionado said:

It is definitely 'End Game' for both Canadian and global BOTLs. I am afraid that the governments all over the world will put cigar businesses into oblivion in some day, just like how Thanos wiped out half of the universe in the Avengers: Infinity War.

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This is one of the main reasons, that I am stockpiling as many boxes as I do. Build up a lifetime supply why you can. 

[BrightonCorgi]

How do all the voters of Canada sit idle and let this happen?  When does common sense prevail?  Certainly not at the polls.

[Puros Y Vino]

7 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How do all the voters of Canada sit idle and let this happen?  When does common sense prevail?  Certainly not at the polls.

There was a lot of petitions both home grown and via official government mechanisms.  I personally received about a dozen replies from members of Parliament thanking me for contacting them.  Each of them towed the line that "sorry but tobacco is bad".  That tells me all the public consultation made zero difference. It was just an outlet for constituents to put their opposition in, that they could easily ignore.  

[BrightonCorgi]

50 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

There was a lot of petitions both home grown and via official government mechanisms.  I personally received about a dozen replies from members of Parliament thanking me for contacting them.  Each of them towed the line that "sorry but tobacco is bad".  That tells me all the public consultation made zero difference. It was just an outlet for constituents to put their opposition in, that they could easily ignore.  

Well, every politician is up for re-election at some point.  

[El Presidente]

When we were going through it here i reached out to pollies who were clients. 

"there are no votes in tobacco" was the standard reply.  

They are piss poor pond scum. 

[LLC]

I feel for the small business owners and their staff but it won’t affect me personally as the high taxes mean I only by singles here and boxes elsewhere.

It won’t stop with tobacco; slowly but surely the morons will continue to trample our rights and freedoms while continuing to take more of out money.


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[Cigar Surgeon]

On 5/1/2019 at 4:38 PM, kevpro said:

How is this expected to affect CCs? Will the retailer have to swap out the packaging at their own cost?

 

Correct. Any inventory still remaining must be compliant to the new packaging standards and retailers will have to apply the bands and box covers at their own expense.

[Cigar Surgeon]

11 hours ago, bundwallah said:

Is that the case in Aus?  I think in Canada the retailers will do that work.  My friend at LCDH mentioned that they are considering providing original bands and boxes to purchasers of full boxes.

Will be done at the distribution side. So you'll see the number of SKUs being imported drop off substantially. 

[Fuzz]

11 hours ago, bundwallah said:

Is that the case in Aus?  I think in Canada the retailers will do that work.  My friend at LCDH mentioned that they are considering providing original bands and boxes to purchasers of full boxes.

As far as I'm aware, yes. When I was with my former employer, I worked on several Liquor projects, and one involved the selling of premium cigars in our stores. All the boxes I saw coming direct from the distributor were already plain packaged. Without assistance from the manufacturer, logistically and financially, it would be the only way possible. A manufacturer wouldn't send plain packaged stock, as each region would have different regulations.

[HumidorJuan]

I am a proud Canadian, but dang Canada is a complete nanny state