ICC World Cup 2019 (50 overs) in England


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34 minutes ago, JohnS said:

I tell you though, Eoin Morgan's 17 sixes last night in his 148-run inning of 71 balls was amazing! Also Shakib Al Hasan's 124 not out against the West Indies. 

Bring on today's game! Will New Zealand remain undefeated or will South Africa start to play like the current No.3 ranked ODI team in the world?

Also, will Shakib Al Hasan's form continue against Australia on Thursday?

john, they play on postage stamps over there. even i got to thump a few sixes way back when. most were mis-hits but still cleared the fence. put them out on the mcg and see how many they hit. but kudos to england for making sure they do have that excellent run rate. we have not been so clever. 

my tv died midway through the aussies most recent game (could have been worse - could have been midway through the first origin). hoping to have the new one set up later today. 

global audience for an indian v england final? 

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john, my pick for the final four and order is india, england, austrralia and nz. so we would have to play england in a semi. not easy. rather play nz and have england and india beat themselves up. 

That must have been the closest, most exciting 1 day game ever. Fair play NZ for the way they took the defeat, don’t think I could have been so magnanimous 

john, cracking match.  there will always be some sharp early chances. england did not take theirs and australia took full advantage. the way england fielded was bizarre. really ordinary. and the

Yes Ken, those grounds are ridiculously small. Mishits go for six too often. An India-England World Cup final would attract a huge worldwide television audience, no doubt.

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22 hours ago, JohnS said:

I tell you though, Eoin Morgan's 17 sixes last night in his 148-run inning of 71 balls was amazing! Also Shakib Al Hasan's 124 not out against the West Indies. 

Bring on today's game! Will New Zealand remain undefeated or will South Africa start to play like the current No.3 ranked ODI team in the world?

Also, will Shakib Al Hasan's form continue against Australia on Thursday?

Many of those runs against Rashid Khan too, perhaps most touted bowler coming in to the ICC. He was hit for one (?) run less than the worse WC spell ever. Including 11 sixes. Nice to watch highlights from but not a great competitive game.

I think today's game was one of the better ones even though NZ probably should have finished it off a few balls earlier. Much more to work with for the bowlers (@Ken Gargett approves I assume?): watching Tahir bowl with some run pressure on the batsmen is always fun, Henry wicketless but bowled great, and Ferguson picking up another three. Solid innings from de Grandhomme on both sides of the bat, Kane was a controlled monster batting. Overall, very happy with today's game, glad to see a total under 250 without it being completely trashed. Seeing the unfortunate out for Guptil and the wide that became a wicket, I still see NZ as a strong contender moving forward.

In other news, Zimbabwe's cricket woes (this time ON the field) continues as they were stomped by the Netherlands. Ol' Brendan Taylor called up again and was the only batter in the top 8 to produce more than 21 runs.

Looking forward to tomorrow! (might cheer for Bangladesh..)

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Oh yeah, things are starting to heat up! Malinga of five years ago showing up, and another game with a relatively low total (this time defended!).

Eoin going from hitting 17 sixes to none (off 35 balls). Hats off to Sri Lanka, they looked better than in a long while. England must be feeling some pressure, two losses after six games but with India, NZ, and Australia left to play. Who knows, maybe both England and WI will miss the semis? Ha! ?

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In the last few days I've been heartened by how unpredictable cricket can be. I can't believe how far South Africa have slid, in my mind, in professionalism in this tournament. Their errors against New Zealand were too numerous, in the field, to believe that these guys are not mentally distracted off the field. It could be the AB de Villiers non-selection fiasco/issue, it could be something as simple as the quota issue (the South African team must have a quota of non-whites in their team) which has influenced the Kolpak players (i.e. South African Internationals that have opted not to play for SA and instead are playing in England on the County Cricket circuit).

I genuinely feel that New Zealand should not have won that game against South Africa. All it took was for one of those catches to stick, one of those easy run-outs to occur or simply Williamson being reviewed on 76 for the caught behind off Tahir and wasn't. Oh well, good luck to New Zealand. Like the last World Cup, they've gone about their business game by game.

Now, as for last night's match. Would you be worried if you were England? I say this now because they've lost not one, but two matches to teams they were heavily favoured against (Pakistan and Sri Lanka). They now have Australia, India and New Zealand to play. This loss gives Australia breathing space in their games against England, New Zealand and South Africa. And so the pressure really is on England now. How valuable has Jason Roy been to their plans? What's Plan B now?

As for Sri Lanka, yes, cricket is a funny game. Your captain, Karunaratne and Perera smash Australia at around 8 an over in reply as openers and SL loses by 87 runs. Against England, these guys are gone for single figures but the old-guard, Angelo Mathews and Lasith Malinga rescue the team for a famous victory.

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1 hour ago, JohnS said:

I genuinely feel that New Zealand should not have won that game against South Africa. All it took was for one of those catches to stick, one of those easy run-outs to occur or simply Williamson being reviewed on 76 for the caught behind off Tahir and wasn't. Oh well, good luck to New Zealand. Like the last World Cup, they've gone about their business game by game.

john, you wouldn't be suggesting match-fixing, would you?

because that never happens in cricket. and with south africa especially! 

more seriously, i still think england are second fave behind india (if they do miss the semis, that place will crucify them). india have been so impressive. long been a a kohli fan, even though a touch abrasive. hard to see them losing a game. but england will be feeling massive pressure. nz continue along outperforming what one expects but i can't see them doing it at the top level right through. and i still think that we have a couple of stars at the top of both batting and bowling but nothing behind that and that won't be enough against the best. we don't have the depth. 

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No, I'm not being disingenuous in stating that it didn't enter my thoughts whatsoever. Pakistan in 1992 and Australia in 1999 have demonstrated that teams can build momentum after slow starts and win the whole thing but I can't see South Africa doing this in '19.

As for Australia, Yes Ken I agree with you. Finch, Warner and Smith in the runs and Starc and Cummins in the wickets has seen them account for the 5 wins but at least when they've been under pressure in games players like Coulter-Nile hit 92 against the West Indies and Maxwell bowled 10 overs against Sri Lanka for 45. But that's WI and SL. It probably wouldn't happen against NZ, India or England in a semi-final.

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1 hour ago, JohnS said:

No, I'm not being disingenuous in stating that it didn't enter my thoughts whatsoever. Pakistan in 1992 and Australia in 1999 have demonstrated that teams can build momentum after slow starts and win the whole thing but I can't see South Africa doing this in '19.

As for Australia, Yes Ken I agree with you. Finch, Warner and Smith in the runs and Starc and Cummins in the wickets has seen them account for the 5 wins but at least when they've been under pressure in games players like Coulter-Nile hit 92 against the West Indies and Maxwell bowled 10 overs against Sri Lanka for 45. But that's WI and SL. It probably wouldn't happen against NZ, India or England in a semi-final.

one other thing - sri lanka has done us no favours. beating england the game before they play us will have them fired up and desperate. 

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Prior to the Afghanistan vs Bangladesh clash today, here is the table as it stands...

Team  M  W  L  T  P  NRR
NZ 6  5  0  0 11  1.306
AUS 6  5  1  0 10  0.849
INDIA 5  4  0  0  9  0.809
ENG 6  4  2  0  8  1.457
SL 6  2  2  0  6 -1.119
BDESH 6  2  3  0  5 -0.407
PAK 6  2  3  0  5 -1.265
WI 6  1  4  0  3 0.19
SA 7  1  5  0  3 -0.324
AFG 6  0  6  0  0 -1.712

I think the top 4 will remain, but perhaps not necessarily in that order. The weekend's games were outstanding!

             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
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1 hour ago, JohnS said:

Prior to the Afghanistan vs Bangladesh clash today, here is the table as it stands...

Team  M  W  L  T  P  NRR
NZ 6  5  0  0 11  1.306
AUS 6  5  1  0 10  0.849
INDIA 5  4  0  0  9  0.809
ENG 6  4  2  0  8  1.457
SL 6  2  2  0  6 -1.119
BDESH 6  2  3  0  5 -0.407
PAK 6  2  3  0  5 -1.265
WI 6  1  4  0  3 0.19
SA 7  1  5  0  3 -0.324
AFG 6  0  6  0  0 -1.712

I think the top 4 will remain, but perhaps not necessarily in that order. The weekend's games were outstanding!

             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             

john, my pick for the final four and order is india, england, austrralia and nz. so we would have to play england in a semi. not easy. rather play nz and have england and india beat themselves up. 

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After two and a half games, the top four was the same and I thought there was a good chance they would stay. But it is not a done deal and I hope that we'll see some more upsets. The last four-five games have been much more competitive, I truly wished Afghanistan could have taken down India. Shakib showing once again today that he IS the best all-rounder since Kallis. Noone comes close in today's cricket imho.

The washouts earlier this tournament really has put some dampness on the standings. The top four have only benefited from the rain unfortunately.

Highlights from Shakib's 5/29:

 

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Well, well, well.... Australia defeating England has really opened things up. I only watched Australia's innings and then went to sleep at the end of it (as it was around 11 pm AEST), but I thought 285 was a lot of runs on that pitch. It was very, very difficult to bat on due to the seam and variable bounce, which played havoc with batsmen coming in and settling. It just goes to show how well Finch, Warner, Smith and Stokes played. If Finch was taken at 0/23 then I think England could have been 50/50 chance to win, but once he got to a century the game was out of England's reach.

England's losses open up qualification race

Are Australia definitely through to the semi-finals?

Yes, they are through for sure. There is a possibility that New Zealand and India finish on 13 points, and Australia, England and Sri Lanka end up on 12 points - but Sri Lanka would have won only five games, since two of their games were washed out. As number of wins is the first tie-breaker in the case of teams being tied on points, Sri Lanka will lose out.

Can England still qualify?

Defeats in their last two games have left the pre-tournament favourites with plenty to do in the last week of their group games. England will still qualify for sure if they win their last two matches, but they will get into slippery territory if they lose one of their remaining games - against India on Sunday, and against New Zealand on July 3. If they win one of those, they will finish on 10 points, which will then leave them at the mercy of other results, as there are up to five teams which could finish on more than 10.

For England to make it with only five wins, they will have to hope that 10 points is enough for the fourth spot. That could happen if Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh each lose at least one of their remaining matches. Then, Sri Lanka would finish on 10 points at the most, but would have only four wins to England's five, while Pakistan and Bangladesh would be stuck on nine. In that case, Australia, New Zealand, India and England will qualify.

If one of those three Asian teams win all of their remaining matches, then England will be left hoping that India lose all their remaining games and stay on nine. That, though, looks extremely unlikely.

image.png.503ea601c1a86e3dc2dbb234af554702.png

 

ESPNcricinfo Ltd

 

How do England's successive defeats impact the other teams in the hunt for a semi-final spot?

 

 

 

England's plight is encouraging news for all the other teams which are in contention, as it lowers the cut-off bar. There is now hope for the teams that 11 points may be enough, or even nine, which gives more wriggle room for Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and even gives West Indies a sniff.

 

 

 

Are you saying that a team could qualify for the semi-finals with only nine points?

 

 

 

Yes, they could. For that to happen, though, England will have to lose both their remaining games and stay on eight. Then, up to three teams could finish level on nine points, fighting for the last semi-final spot. That could happen if West Indies win their three remaining matches, and Bangladesh and Pakistan lose one match each. Then, West Indies, Pakistan and Bangladesh will each finish on nine points. West Indies already have the best net run rate among them, and three wins should boost it further, giving them the best chance among these three teams.

 

 

 

England's defeats have obviously hurt their chances and their fans, but they have opened up the tournament. Barring Afghanistan and South Africa, all the other teams still have plenty to play for.

 

 

 

Source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27054069/england-losses-open-qualification-race

 

 

 

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john, cracking match. 

there will always be some sharp early chances. england did not take theirs and australia took full advantage. the way england fielded was bizarre. really ordinary. and the bowling was poor. but then we almost contributed to our own demise. the runout. some silly shots and yet again, not able to put an innings away with big runs at the end. we let them right back in but our fielding and bowling were excellent. starc was dynamite. b'dorff was excellent. five in his first go at lords. 

the team was far better balanced. thankfully zampa is finally gone. what were they thinking? and finally the extra bowler. the selectors took a long time to reach sanity. 

i think they need to bat smith at 3 and ussie 4, unless it is late in the innings and they can have a crack with maxwell. 

england need to watch out or they will not make the semis. they will be torn apart by their press and fans - tournament favourites and playing at home. love it!! there was a great quote this morning. "england have now reached the last 16 of a ten team competition." 

still think india are hot faves. 

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Exciting second innings on the way. That hat trick on the end by Boult, wowsa!

AFG gave Pakistan a run for their money (not unlike the India game) but the scenes around (and in) the stadium were just mind-boggling. Worst fan behavior I've ever seen in cricket, such a shame.

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Well, Australia's victory over New Zealand and Pakistan's last over win against Afghanistan means England MUST BEAT India in today's game to remain in contention for the semi-finals. Incidentally, can someone explain to me the decision making process behind Afghanistan's captain, Gulbadin?

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22 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Well, Australia's victory over New Zealand and Pakistan's last over win against Afghanistan means England MUST BEAT India in today's game to remain in contention for the semi-finals. Incidentally, can someone explain to me the decision making process behind Afghanistan's captain, Gulbadin?

john, only saw the scores in the afgh v pak game. what did the capt do?

more interested in the thinking by nz. they had that game and then took their foot off the throat and blew it badly. the all blacks would never do such a thing. 5-90 and boult still gets a hattrick and they lose? 

they exposed us, again for me, we have four batsmen and nothing behind it (although carey has done very well - much better bat than a keeper). thankfully, ussie was good today. how long does maxwell keep a spot? 40 from 20 balls, 8 games ago is simply nowhere near acceptable. and stoinis needs to step up as well. either get runs or take wickets. you can't be an allrounder who can't bat or bowl. this is going to cost us the comp. i am convinced. india hot faves for me. 

the bowling does look so much better and more balanced with b'doff and lyon. and isn't starc a beast!! wow. 

for me, there is one monstrous blight on this world cup. listening to that self-obsessed, dimwitted grub slater. it is all about him. let's have another series of in jokes because i used to play. this is what i think about me. my mates x and y when we used to play. what do you think about me?

he is truly awful. and never contributes a single comment of intelligence or insight. he comes on to do an analysis and comes up with X hasn't got any runs yet in the tournament so today could be his day. another gibbering thoughtless cliche from this idiot. and his fellow commentator has to build him up - "great thoughts, slats". no they were not. he is clueless and appalling. get rid of him. 

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6 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

john, only saw the scores in the afgh v pak game. what did the capt do?

 

He basically played for Pakistan in the end and gifted them a victory. On a pitch best suited for spin he decided to come on in the 46th over and give up 4 boundaries and conceded 18 runs. But wait, this gets better, he decided that with the last over to be bowled and Pakistan needing 6 runs and Afghanistan 3 wickets, he was the best option to bowl it. Three balls later it was all over and the Afghan captain had figures of 0/73.

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1 hour ago, JohnS said:

He basically played for Pakistan in the end and gifted them a victory. On a pitch best suited for spin he decided to come on in the 46th over and give up 4 boundaries and conceded 18 runs. But wait, this gets better, he decided that with the last over to be bowled and Pakistan needing 6 runs and Afghanistan 3 wickets, he was the best option to bowl it. Three balls later it was all over and the Afghan captain had figures of 0/73.

so the concept of match fixing not strong there then. 

watching the england team giving india a flogging, but gee they had a year's worth of luck early. still, they are taking advantage and that is all you can do. 

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England played a very good game today, yes they had some luck early but that is cricket. Punish drops. Glad to see them get the victory. To be fair, India could have lost a couple more before reaching 50 too. Bumrah is still in my mind the best death bowler in ODI. 16 runs (only one boundary) in overs 50, 48 and 46.

I know you both see India is favorite but I really haven't been impressed by their last three games, neither strategy or batting. They probably should have lost to Afghanistan, their batting wasn't sharp against WI, and today the pressure of a high target made some average English bowlers look pretty decent. Who knows though, I'm just glad to see that there is life in the tournament. Exciting couple of weeks ahead of us!

 

Edit: Had a JL #2 from 2010 while watching the game today. Sometimes life is good!8f8575b280ed11f6b58804d6f61ea31d.jpg

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The England-India game highlights, for me, how difficult managing chases has been in the World Cup thus far. 

Edit: I just woke up this morning to see the West Indies fall around 20 runs short chasing 338 against Sri Lanka. Ditto my point above.

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37 minutes ago, encephalization said:

England played a very good game today, yes they had some luck early but that is cricket. Punish drops. Glad to see them get the victory. To be fair, India could have lost a couple more before reaching 50 too. Bumrah is still in my mind the best death bowler in ODI. 16 runs (only one boundary) in overs 50, 48 and 46.

I know you both see India is favorite but I really haven't been impressed by their last three games, neither strategy or batting. They probably should have lost to Afghanistan, their batting wasn't sharp against WI, and today the pressure of a high target made some average English bowlers look pretty decent. Who knows though, I'm just glad to see that there is life in the tournament. Exciting couple of weeks ahead of us!

 

Edit: Had a JL #2 from 2010 while watching the game today. Sometimes life is good!

england were excellent and took their chances (well, not all - root dropped one - i meant took the chance to win when offered). i think they did enough to regain joint favouritism with india - i think if india win that toss, england would likely be out of the tournament now. 

when you say 'punish drops, i didn't see india drop any chances? but i did not see the entire innings. what i meant by luck were things like bairstow's two french cuts next to the stumps. balls going so near fieldsmen. bairstow in particular, playing and missing, by a whisker, 5-6 times. india not reviewing when roy was out. but every winner has some luck. a fun part of the game. today, it was with england. you still have to play well and make the most of it and they did. looked very impressive. 

bumrah is a star. imagine him and starc in the same team! 

about two weeks ago, the final four looked set and it looked like a couple of weeks of dead games. but none of it. has been far more exciting than i predicted. 

if england do make the semis, by beating nz, then with luck, we get top spot. we need to beat south africa to ensure we do. then england and india end up 2 and 3 and so have to play the semi (i realise that an england india final would bring a world crowd of billions but... ). we play nz. i think we beat nz 9 out of 10 so hopefully this is not the 10th. then we play england or india. and i think that we simply will struggle with the depth, unless our top four really perform. 

 

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How England's win affects Bangladesh and Pakistan

England's win on Sunday has pushed them to 10 points. What does that mean for the semi-final race?

England's win against India means that Sri Lanka are out. Even if they win their two remaining matches and England lose to New Zealand, Sri Lanka will finish on the same number of points as England, but with one lesser win (because of two rained out matches), which is the first tie-breaker for teams level on points.

With Australia already through, five teams are battling for the three remaining spots: India, New Zealand, England, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Among them, India and New Zealand are all but through because of their superior net run rate - explained in more detail below - while England, Pakistan and Bangladesh are fighting for one slot.

Can England still qualify if they lose to New Zealand on Wednesday?

Yes, they can. For that, India will have to beat Bangladesh, who in turn will have to beat Pakistan. Such a scenario would have both Bangladesh and Pakistan on nine points, with England qualifying as the fourth team with 10 points.

The weather is set fair at Chester le Street for Wednesday's clash between England and New Zealand, but even if there is a no-result, England will still make it because of their superior net run rate, compared to Bangladesh and Pakistan.

What about Bangladesh and Pakistan? How has England's win affected their chances?

The situation has become tougher for both teams as they now need 11 points to qualify, but as things stand, only one of them can get there because they play each other, on Friday.

For Pakistan to qualify, they have to beat Bangladesh and hope New Zealand beat England. Similarly, Bangladesh need to win their last two games and then hope New Zealand beat England. Neither side can afford a loss, however.

Are Bangladesh/ Pakistan out for sure if England beat New Zealand? What about the net-run-rate scenarios among the teams on 11 points?

If India lose their two remaining games and if New Zealand lose to England, then three teams - India, New Zealand and Pakistan/Bangladesh - will finish on 11, vying for two spots.

If Pakistan beat Bangladesh and are the third team on 11 points, then New Zealand and India will qualify, as Pakistan's NRR of -0.792 is far too much of a handicap.

For them to nudge ahead of India, India will have to lose each of their matches by around 150 runs (or the sum of their losses will have to be around 300), and Pakistan will have to beat Bangladesh by around 200 runs.

For Pakistan to go past New Zealand, the result of the two relevant matches - Pakistan beating Bangladesh and England beating New Zealand - will have to be in the region of around 220 runs each.

For Bangladesh, the NRR situation isn't quite as dire, but it is still rather improbable. If, for example, the results of the three matches - Bangladesh's wins versus India and Pakistan, and India's defeat against Sri Lanka - are in the region of around 75 runs each, then Bangladesh will go ahead of India on NRR.

To move past New Zealand, Bangladesh will need the results of the three relevant games - wins in their last two games, and New Zealand's loss to England - to be in the region of around 80 runs.

So is it fair to assume that India and New Zealand are both practically through to the last four?

Yes, given the improbable NRR scenarios, India and New Zealand are both pretty much through. The priority for them would be in terms of securing the best possible positions among the top four: India can still finish on top if they win their last two and Australia lose to South Africa, but the top spot is beyond reach for New Zealand.

The more immediate battle, though, is among England, Pakistan and Bangladesh for the fourth spot.

Source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27094787/how-england-win-affects-bangladesh-pakistan

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  • 2 weeks later...

What a game. What an effort on the NZ side going into the second day of this Two-Day-International (?). Guptill still extremely under-performing with the bat (well, the whole top order to be fair) but what a beautiful direct hit (and we haven't had that many in this tournament) on Dhoni. Game changer.

I would have loved to send you some sticks @JohnS but.. Hey, this is cricket! Very happy for the kiwis, hope they get the trophy now.

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Hehe...I think the result was great for world cricket to be honest. Yes, it was a tremendous game and well done to New Zealand making it to the World Cup Final for the second time (in a row) when no one gave them a chance.

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