Question about Freezing Cigar Process

[Connoisseur Kim]

Most of BOTLS putting Ziplock with cigars and then move to fridge before freezing to prevent unexpected damage. However, I found that someone freeze cigars and then put them into fridge instead of putting cigars to fridge first. So, I wonder is it okay to freeze cigars like this:

Put Cigars into Ziplock or Vaccum Seal ⇒ Freeze Cigars Straight Away for 3 days at -20C ⇒ Move Cigars to Fridge for 24hrs ⇒ Leave Them at Room Temperature for 24hrs ⇒ Move Cigars to The Stash

[zyxwvu44]

I think the idea of the fridge is to acclimate them a bit more slowly. Since the humidity level drops in cold (I think?) It's probably slightly less risky to drop that RH more slowly to avoid cracking.

[Connoisseur Kim]

8 minutes ago, zyxwvu44 said:

I think the idea of the fridge is to acclimate them a bit more slowly. Since the humidity level drops in cold (I think?) It's probably slightly less risky to drop that RH more slowly to avoid cracking.

Yeah there are others who support freezing cigars straight away can crack foot of cigars (humidity spike).

[zyxwvu44]

Yeah there are others who supports freezing cigars straight away can crack foot of cigars (humidity spike).

I think this is a good candidate for FOHrensics!

[Connoisseur Kim]

Just now, zyxwvu44 said:

1 minute ago, LonesomeHabanoAficionado said:

Yeah there are others who supports freezing cigars straight away can crack foot of cigars (humidity spike).

I think this is a good candidate for FOHrensics!

Definitely one of the topics that should be shown in FOHrensics!

[Hadroxity]

Freezing initially is better unless you plan to freeze for a long time, cold acclimated tobacco beetles actually take longer to kill in the freeze process. They will become cold acclimated if you do a 24 hour fridge resting prior to freezing.

[Viva Vegas]

From talking to others if you can freeze at -2 f , you only need 4 hours , 12 to be extra safe time in freezer to kill everything. 

[Connoisseur Kim]

31 minutes ago, Hadroxity said:

Freezing initially is better unless you plan to freeze for a long time, cold acclimated tobacco beetles actually take longer to kill in the freeze process. They will become cold acclimated if you do a 24 hour fridge resting prior to freezing.

I really agree with you! It also reduces steps for freezing cigars which is good for everyone!

13 minutes ago, Viva Vegas said:

From talking to others if you can freeze at -2 f , you only need 4 hours , 12 to be extra safe time in freezer to kill everything. 

Since modern refrigerators have temperature control for freezer and fridge unlike older ones, is it okay to freeze cigars for 4-12hrs (at -20C)? I found freeze cigars for 3-4 days is too long.

[Connoisseur Kim]

After freezing cigars, is it okay to put them in room temperature without fridge process? I wonder if this works same as freeze cigars straight away without fridge process. Also, how long do you leave cigars in room temp after freezing them??

On 2/1/2016 at 10:13 PM, ElPuro said:

1. Place the cigars (singles or boxes) in a freezer bag and suck out as much air as possible using a straw and lung power. Or carefully use vacuum seal bags if you have them. Many BOTL double or triple bag the cigars as an extra precaution.

2. Put the cigars in the fridge to slowly lower the temperature closer to the freezing point to prevent possible wrapper bursting from rapid freeze. 12-24 hours is plenty of time. Many BOTL skip this step with no ill effects.

3. Move the cigars to the freezer where they will stay for X hours (see mortality chart). This ensures that the temperature is reached and any potential bugs are more than dead. It's probably a good idea to double the mortality time just to be safe. This will also account for the time it takes for the cigars to fully freeze.

4. Move the cigars back to the fridge for 12-24 hours. Again, many BOTL skip this step with no ill effects.

5. Remove the cigars from the fridge and allow them to come up to room temperature (3-5 hours) before putting them back in the humidor.

6. Allow them a few weeks to acclimate to the proper RH before smoking.

 

[Hadroxity]

When I froze the ones bought off the island I took them directly from the freezer to room temp with zero issues.

[Connoisseur Kim]

11 hours ago, Hadroxity said:

When I froze the ones bought off the island I took them directly from the freezer to room temp with zero issues.

Thanks! I found that fridge step seems unnecessary as I read more posts about freezing cigars. Is it okay to freeze cigars for 4~12hrs when freezer is at -18C to -20C (I saw Freezing Cigar Beetles Article)? 

[havanaclub]

If it gets that cold do 24hrs. Won’t hurt at all, can only help to ensure you kill everything. Keep in mind, it may actually take 3-4 hours for the cigars to actually freeze and get to that temperature.
I ziplock double wrap and take a straw to suck all the air out, no fridge first to avoid acclimation, just straight into to freezer. My fridge goes to -6C only so I do 4 days. Then in fridge for 12hrs, room temp for 6-8 hours then humidor. Never any issues.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hadroxity]

24 minutes ago, LonesomeHabanoAficionado said:

Thanks! I found that fridge step seems unnecessary as I read more posts about freezing cigars. Is it okay to freeze cigars for 4~12hrs when freezer is at -18C to -20C (I saw Freezing Cigar Beetles Article)? 

If your freezer is that cold I’d do 12-24 hours just to be sure the temp reaches the core of the cigars and has time to complete it’s job.

[Connoisseur Kim]

6 minutes ago, havanaclub said:

If it gets that cold do 24hrs. Won’t hurt at all, can only help to ensure you kill everything. Keep in mind, it may actually take 3-4 hours for the cigars to actually freeze and get to that temperature.
I ziplock double wrap and take a straw to suck all the air out, no fridge first to avoid acclimation, just straight into to freezer. My fridge goes to -6C only so I do 4 days. Then in fridge for 12hrs, room temp for 6-8 hours then humidor. Never any issues.

Thanks! What is the purpose of fridge after freezing cigars? Someone put cigars to fridge after freezing while others just leave cigars in room temperature after freezing...

1 minute ago, Hadroxity said:

If your freezer is that cold I’d do 12-24 hours just to be sure the temp reaches the core of the cigars and has time to complete it’s job.

Yeah the modern refrigerator has ability to reduce freezer temperature to -20C. Same goes on fridge.

[Hadroxity]

-18–20C or F because that’s crazy low.

[Connoisseur Kim]

2 minutes ago, Hadroxity said:

-18–20C or F because that’s crazy low.

I agree that -18C and -20C is cold enough to kill all cigar beetles! Thanks to advance of technology (Korean refrigerator has temp control ability for freezer and fridge so I assure that other refrigerators also have that feature)!

[BuzzArd]

I’ve always just bagged the boxes/sticks and placed them straight into the freezer.   After 48hours (based on 2x the below mortality at -10°C)  I take them out and put them in the humidor.  

Here’s some interesting (and scientific) reading on the subject.   I’d say it argues against slowly lowering temps to avoid acclimatizing bugs and increasing their resistance to death by freezing. Of course their acclimatization was for months, not hours, but still, why give the little f__kers a chance?      48 hours is just my comfort zone.  2x the recommended time seems reasonable to me.   Others may be comfortable with a minimum recommendation.  

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249887786_Low-temperature_as_an_alternative_to_fumigation_to_disinfest_stored_tobacco_of_the_cigarette_beetle_Lasioderma_serricorne_F_Coleoptera_Anobiidae

[Bucky McSwensen]

My understanding of the fridge after freeze is to just ease the crazy temperature fluctuations.  If i skip the fridge and get cracks or splits, id blame that.  If I do the fridge and still get splits at least I did everything.  Itll be fine, dont overthink it.  Also buy a vacuum sealer.  Great for food prep storage as well.

[Connoisseur Kim]

3 hours ago, BuzzArd said:

I’ve always just bagged the boxes/sticks and placed them straight into the freezer.   After 48hours (based on 2x the below mortality at -10°C)  I take them out and put them in the humidor.  

Here’s some interesting (and scientific) reading on the subject.   I’d say it argues against slowly lowering temps to avoid acclimatizing bugs and increasing their resistance to death by freezing. Of course their acclimatization was for months, not hours, but still, why give the little f__kers a chance?      48 hours is just my comfort zone.  2x the recommended time seems reasonable to me.   Others may be comfortable with a minimum recommendation.  

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249887786_Low-temperature_as_an_alternative_to_fumigation_to_disinfest_stored_tobacco_of_the_cigarette_beetle_Lasioderma_serricorne_F_Coleoptera_Anobiidae

That's spooky to hear that! I'd also like to agree that fridge process actually can allow cigar beetles to be acclimatised in cold environment. I don't see a reason to put cigars into fridge...

2 hours ago, Bucky McSwensen said:

My understanding of the fridge after freeze is to just ease the crazy temperature fluctuations.  If i skip the fridge and get cracks or splits, id blame that.  If I do the fridge and still get splits at least I did everything.  Itll be fine, dont overthink it.  Also buy a vacuum sealer.  Great for food prep storage as well.

Seems that opinions on fridge after freezing vary. I saw someone said cigars are more resilient than we thought. Thanks for recommending Vacuum Sealer!

[La_Tigre]

On 8/12/2019 at 8:33 PM, LonesomeHabanoAficionado said:

 

Seems that opinions on fridge after freezing vary. I saw someone said cigars are more resilient than we thought. Thanks for recommending Vacuum Sealer!

My target storage is 65/65 with Boveda 62’s and passive temp regulation keeping the house at 69F and the cigar room with the highest flow of cold air. I have variance up to 70/70 due to the hot climate and a lot of wet new additions.

Scientifically, I do not buy into the acclimatization period being 12 -24 hours in cold. If they could pull that off they’d live through an ice age. I believe that to be a long period allowing the body to prep, similar to humans packing on fat for winter.

The freezer I’m using hits -25C (verified by a freezer thermometer) so the kill time should be 1 hr after reaching that temp internally. I still leave them in for 48. Not even Icebeetle is surviving that.

[Viva Vegas]

I am sure it also helps to keep your sticks cool at a temp 65 or less to give you a better chance of no beetles. I freeze now 12 hours at -2f and humidor temp at 65 . But I am new at this and will make corrections as I go. Just my 2 cents.

[TheGipper]

What I do:

1. Vacuum seal (don't crush your cigars by letting the machine auto stop, hit the seal button when the bag is tightened up a bit, it's good enough - the benefit of vacuum sealing is in the seal, not the vacuum).

2. Straight into the freezer for 24 hours at 0F / -18C.  More than 24 hours is totally fine also.

3. Straight onto the kitchen counter for 6 or so hours.

4. Open up the vacuum seal and that's it.

Never had a cracked cigar from this process.  And never had a beetle outbreak.

[Connoisseur Kim]

14 hours ago, La_Tigre said:

Scientifically, I do not buy into the acclimatization period being 12 -24 hours in cold. If they could pull that off they’d live through an ice age. I believe that to be a long period allowing the body to prep, similar to humans packing on fat for winter.

The freezer I’m using hits -25C (verified by a freezer thermometer) so the kill time should be 1 hr after reaching that temp internally. I still leave them in for 48. Not even Icebeetle is surviving that.

 

10 hours ago, Viva Vegas said:

I am sure it also helps to keep your sticks cool at a temp 65 or less to give you a better chance of no beetles. I freeze now 12 hours at -2f and humidor temp at 65 . But I am new at this and will make corrections as I go. Just my 2 cents.

I agree that colder temperature can kill all annoying Cigar Beetles! Too bad that it is not well known in my country...

7 hours ago, TheGipper said:

What I do:

1. Vacuum seal (don't crush your cigars by letting the machine auto stop, hit the seal button when the bag is tightened up a bit, it's good enough - the benefit of vacuum sealing is in the seal, not the vacuum).

2. Straight into the freezer for 24 hours at 0F / -18C.  More than 24 hours is totally fine also.

3. Straight onto the kitchen counter for 6 or so hours.

4. Open up the vacuum seal and that's it.

Never had a cracked cigar from this process.  And never had a beetle outbreak.

Thanks for providing simplified freezing cigar process! I'm surprised that you put cigars in room temperature straight away after freezing (I personally believe putting cigars in fridge is unnecessary for freezing cigars)! Hope this will help all BOTLs!

[CaptainQuintero]

  I've always gone straight into the freezer in a double ziplocked bag, 3/4 days then into the fridge for 2/3 days then on the side door a day then into the humi, never had any issues so far

  I'd be hesitant to go straight from the freezer to the humidor/side after seeing some people's cigars split/crack doing this in the past

  I've never vacuum sealed but see people do it, just be careful as if you go too far you crush your cigars. I'm not sure what is really gained by doing it; people with more knowledge than me have said that the lack of air effects the freezing but that's for someone else to delve into

[Connoisseur Kim]

On 8/14/2019 at 6:43 PM, CaptainQuintero said:

  I've always gone straight into the freezer in a double ziplocked bag, 3/4 days then into the fridge for 2/3 days then on the side door a day then into the humi, never had any issues so far

  I'd be hesitant to go straight from the freezer to the humidor/side after seeing some people's cigars split/crack doing this in the past

  I've never vacuum sealed but see people do it, just be careful as if you go too far you crush your cigars. I'm not sure what is really gained by doing it; people with more knowledge than me have said that the lack of air effects the freezing but that's for someone else to delve into

Hmm this makes me even more confused as someone did not have crack problem by putting cigars into room temp after freezing (unless forget to move cigars from freezer)... So fridge after freezing is necessary in your opinion?

So far, I just made a simplified freezing cigar process based on your tips and opinions:

• Put cigars in either Ziplock or Vacuum Seal
• Put cigars into freezer for 24hrs at −20°C or below
• Put cigars into fridge for 24hrs
• Put cigars at room temperature for 6hrs
• Put cigars into your stash

P.S. Sorry for long absence due to laptop battery charger malfunction