Consensus on Freezing for Cigar Beetles


Recommended Posts

I know that it has been discussed many times but I’m not sure I’m convinced on what is the most appropriate way to sufficiently eradicate cigar beetles through freezing. 

While I trust cigars through FoH, I can’t always be sure from other sources. 

What I’ve settled on is to place in the freezer and keep temperature < -15 C (or < 5 F) for a minimum of 7 days. Has this been agreed upon or does someone else know something definitively different and better ?

Thanks :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is believed that freezing in the factory worsens the taste of cigars. Also, freezing at home is even worse than in the factory on professional freezers. Therefore, the best option is to store cigars at a temperature of 16-18 degrees Celsius, then the beetle eggs will not receive favorable conditions and will die.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, nKostyan said:

It is believed that freezing in the factory worsens the taste of cigars. Also, freezing at home is even worse than in the factory on professional freezers. Therefore, the best option is to store cigars at a temperature of 16-18 degrees Celsius, then the beetle eggs will not receive favorable conditions and will die.

Perhaps. I have read a post from El Presidente stating he didn’t believe that the taste is affected. 

The issue with temperature is that I can’t always guarantee that range. I like the peace of mind that there is no chance of hatchings. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, nKostyan said:

It is believed that freezing in the factory worsens the taste of cigars. Also, freezing at home is even worse than in the factory on professional freezers. Therefore, the best option is to store cigars at a temperature of 16-18 degrees Celsius, then the beetle eggs will not receive favorable conditions and will die.

I have never had a problem with freezing affecting the taste of my cigars. I have frozen plenty over the years.

If the freezing affected the taste of my Cuba haul, none of the people I've shared them with has said boo. I trust @JohnS palate, and would hope he'd say something to me if there was a problem. It wouldn't offend me, but if he didn't say something when there was and I found out later, boy would he cop an earful! :lol3:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

There’s a few tables like this around. There’s even a graph. I can’t verify the science behind the numbers, but it’s a guide anyway. 
12FDDACF-F750-45A3-954C-D882B117B4D2.thumb.jpeg.94118e6e51a0c3e05218a201ff8a9846.jpeg

Just curious, what is the temperature in the cargo hold of a plane? Outside air temperature at that altitude is generally at or below -40c, and I've always felt that my luggages get quite cold from a flight. If -20c for 1h is enough to kill all the eggs/pupal/adults, would the flight itself be enough?

2 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I have never had a problem with freezing affecting the taste of my cigars. I have frozen plenty over the years.

On the other hand, if you freeze all your cigars, they would all consistently taste a certain way and you'd be none the wiser .....?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Meklown said:

Just curious, what is the temperature in the cargo hold of a plane? Outside air temperature at that altitude is generally at or below -40c, and I've always felt that my luggages get quite cold from a flight. If -20c for 1h is enough to kill all the eggs/pupal/adults, would the flight itself be enough?

On the other hand, if you freeze all your cigars, they would all consistently taste a certain way and you'd be none the wiser .....?

Only my Cuba bought cigars and o/s bought cigars have been frozen. Anything I bought from FOH, which is at least half my collection, has never been frozen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I have never had a problem with freezing affecting the taste of my cigars. I have frozen plenty over the years.

If the freezing affected the taste of my Cuba haul, none of the people I've shared them with has said boo. I trust @JohnS palate, and would hope he'd say something to me if there was a problem. It wouldn't offend me, but if he didn't say something when there was and I found out later, boy would he cop an earful! :lol3:

It's true. @Luca has done likewise with certain cigars. Freezing them doesn't affect the taste.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Only my Cuba bought cigars and o/s bought cigars have been frozen. Anything I bought from FOH, which is at least half my collection, has never been frozen.

But FOH freezes them for us? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Fuzz meant to say, never, apart from once by HSA in Cuba.

Okay, but that means that it has been frozen before. Which goes back to my point - if all our cigars has been frozen at some point or the other, how do we know for sure whether the taste has been affected or not? 

Unless there has been a direct comparison between cigars (possibly from the same cab), half frozen and half never frozen? 

But then again, every cigar is different so it's difficult to isolate the taste difference being precisely down to the freezing process, unless you inspect the same molecularly before and after it's frozen to see if there's any difference? Or get an unfrozen cigar from Cuba, chop it in half, freeze half, smoke both halves to compare for taste? ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't say I trust HSA for adequate freezing seeing as their power grid is antiquated. I freeze everything that I buy. The colder the freezer temperature the better. I have a chest freezer that gets down past below zero farenheit. Cigar boxes go in there for 48 hours. Then into the cabinet humidor. Absolutely no taste loss or negative effect on cigars. I prefer to protect my investment after losing several good cigars to beetles. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the rub, don't a lot of NC manufacturers also freeze/chill there cigars? I've heard they fumigate, but also heard they freeze.

If that is the case, unless you bought from a farm and smoked it without freezing, chances are you have smoked a cigar that has been frozen before.

And here's something to think about, just because a cigar has been frozen or fumigated, doesn't mean it can't be re-infested with beetles. For some odd reason, people seem to think freezing or fumigating at the factory is all that is needed. Crazy. :wacko:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, nKostyan said:

It is believed that freezing in the factory worsens the taste of cigars. Also, freezing at home is even worse than in the factory on professional freezers. Therefore, the best option is to store cigars at a temperature of 16-18 degrees Celsius, then the beetle eggs will not receive favorable conditions and will die.

I had a long conversation with a cigar sommelier and she tested this theory. She couldn't taste any difference in frozen and non frozen tobacco.

If she can't taste a difference, I can't taste a difference.

12 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Here's the rub, don't a lot of NC manufacturers also freeze/chill there cigars? I've heard they fumigate, but also heard they freeze

They do before the cigars are shipped out. They do fumigate at almost every stage as well, as well as regular intervals (I believe 90 days) while they're resting in the escaparate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

And here's something to think about, just because a cigar has been frozen or fumigated, doesn't mean it can't be re-infested with beetles. For some odd reason, people seem to think freezing or fumigating at the factory is all that is needed. Crazy. :wacko:

 

Exactly why it can be argued that the most important point at which to freeze is when you personally receive it. That way you control what is introduced into your stash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, NYgarman said:

I can't say I trust HSA for adequate freezing seeing as their power grid is antiquated. I freeze everything that I buy. The colder the freezer temperature the better. I have a chest freezer that gets down past below zero farenheit. Cigar boxes go in there for 48 hours. Then into the cabinet humidor. Absolutely no taste loss or negative effect on cigars. I prefer to protect my investment after losing several good cigars to beetles. 

Pretty much the same as @NYgarman I used to do the few days in the fridge, then freezer, back to fridge and so on but now straight in the freezer they go. It's my choice for peace of mind

24:24 E2's fresh in this week - in the freezer they go. Box of blah from various other source - in the freezer they go. Handful of sticks from my best friend that I trust with my life - in the freezer they go. I think you get the jist

I don't discriminate on this front, anything I receive gets frozen - I've had an outbreak once and I'll do my best to avoid that happening again. I am not privileged enough to have temp controlled storage and even if I did, I'd freeze. 

Like above I have a fair few friends who are cigar sommeliers and they've never mentioned my hand outs tasting like they've been frozen. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the record I always freeze all of my tobacco beetles.   ?

The above table was taken from this 2006 Japanese research publication if you care to enjoy the full text. 

I’ve frozen cigars and not frozen cigars and I can’t tell the difference in a frozen vs non-frozen stick.   I’m nowhere near that sophisticated. 

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249887786_Low-temperature_as_an_alternative_to_fumigation_to_disinfest_stored_tobacco_of_the_cigarette_beetle_Lasioderma_serricorne_F_Coleoptera_Anobiidae

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Meklown said:

Just curious, what is the temperature in the cargo hold of a plane? Outside air temperature at that altitude is generally at or below -40c, and I've always felt that my luggages get quite cold from a flight. If -20c for 1h is enough to kill all the eggs/pupal/adults, would the flight itself be enough?

 

Originally when I read this I thought  "wow, good point, it probably does"  but then it occurred to me.  If in a 6 hour flight with just minutes from plane to the baggage claim, the bag would still be frozen.  Liquids would be near frozen, especially on longer trips.  So clearly our luggage is kept warm.  Good thought though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Meklown said:

Just curious, what is the temperature in the cargo hold of a plane? Outside air temperature at that altitude is generally at or below -40c, and I've always felt that my luggages get quite cold from a flight. If -20c for 1h is enough to kill all the eggs/pupal/adults, would the flight itself be enough?

On the other hand, if you freeze all your cigars, they would all consistently taste a certain way and you'd be none the wiser .....?

Allowing ambient temperature to drop below freezing in cargo is a almost always a bad idea so aircraft cargo holds are generally heated to a temperature above freezing, say 7c or 47 to 50f.  Crew will have manifests listing the cargo and if there is cargo requiring higher temperatures (animals, flowers, etc) temperature will be adjusted.  Swings below freezing or above 80 often occur during unloading/loading. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Derboesekoenig said:

You have multiple friends that are cigar sommeliers? How does one even receive that title? Asking for a friend :whistle:

Seems you missed this post by Nino ;):

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Derboesekoenig said:

You have multiple friends that are cigar sommeliers? How does one even receive that title? Asking for a friend :whistle:

Several of them are on this list https://cigars.co.uk/the-masters/

Make what you want about the qualification... it certainly isn't the one refered to above

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc.