Longest in Vacuum Sealed Bag?

[BrightonCorgi]

What has been the longest you have aged a  box of cigars in a vacuum sealed bag without opening?  How were the results?  Would vacuum sealing a box for 5+ years cause harm?

[kalibratecuba]

You need to also consider how long a bag that was sealed with your machine will maintain the vacuum. The longest I saw mentioned is a couple of years.

 

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[SenorPerfecto]

I've never lasted more than a minute or two in a vacuum bag

[kyee]

I have boxes that have been vacuum sealed for 10+ years.   I open one every year or so to test, then reseal.   the aromas that hit me when opening the bag are overwhelming and delightful. There's also a long thread on this topic here. 

[Monterey]

57 minutes ago, kyee said:

There's also a long thread on this topic here. 

I'm familiar with your work on this in the past and have read your updates.  Always look forward to your updates as I want to start vacuum sealing most of my boxes.  Just haven't done it yet.  Keep up the good work, it is appreciated.

[The Squiggler]

3 hours ago, kalibratecuba said:

You need to also consider how long a bag that was sealed with your machine will maintain the vacuum. The longest I saw mentioned is a couple of years.

Couldn't you just throw the vacuum sealed box into another bag and vacuum seal it again if it looked like the original vacuum seal was compromised?  Not sure if there would be any benefit to this as opposed to just removing the original bag and vacuum sealing again, but if you wanted to keep as much of the 'essence' trapped as possible then maybe...

[Cayman17]

1 hour ago, The Squiggler said:

Couldn't you just throw the vacuum sealed box into another bag and vacuum seal it again if it looked like the original vacuum seal was compromised?  Not sure if there would be any benefit to this as opposed to just removing the original bag and vacuum sealing again, but if you wanted to keep as much of the 'essence' trapped as possible then maybe...

There is extra plastic at the ends of the sealed bag. It would be awkward to seal another bag on top, especially if you are talking about a box of RyJ Churchills or Lusis.  Easier to take them out and re-seal. Or put them in a ziplock 

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, Cayman17 said:

There is extra plastic at the ends of the sealed bag. It would be awkward to deal another bag on top, especially if you are talking about a box of RyJ Churchills or Lusis.  Easier to take them out and re-seal. Or put them in a ziplock 

But ziplock bags are permeable.

[The Squiggler]

5 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

But ziplock bags are permeable.

Some less-so than others.  A PVC 'ziplock' would do the trick

[TheGipper]

I have boxes sitting sealed going on 15 years now.  It works for me.  I cannot tell you if you will like the results as much as I do.  Tastes and preferences vary.

Two important notes I'd wish to convey:

1. The benefit in a vacuum seal is the *seal*, not the vacuum.  Do not over vacuum!  Just get the excess air out and hit the manual seal.

2. Once you take a box out of vacuum they generally will be fantastic immediately.  But I have observed that within a few weeks an un-sealed box will often go into a sick period.  Do not panic.  Try 'em again in 3 / 6 / 9 months or so and eventually they'll be ready for action again.  My general practice is to break a box out of vacuum seal about a year before I expect to consume it, and that works for me.

[BrightonCorgi]

12 hours ago, TheGipper said:

I have boxes sitting sealed going on 15 years now.  It works for me.  I cannot tell you if you will like the results as much as I do.  Tastes and preferences vary.

Two important notes I'd wish to convey:

1. The benefit in a vacuum seal is the *seal*, not the vacuum.  Do not over vacuum!  Just get the excess air out and hit the manual seal.

2. Once you take a box out of vacuum they generally will be fantastic immediately.  But I have observed that within a few weeks an un-sealed box will often go into a sick period.  Do not panic.  Try 'em again in 3 / 6 / 9 months or so and eventually they'll be ready for action again.  My general practice is to break a box out of vacuum seal about a year before I expect to consume it, and that works for me.

@TheGipper and @kyee thanks.  This is what I was hoping/expecting to hear.  I do plan to box boxes annually or so and do monitor the seals of the bags.  They are in my wine cellar and humidity is pretty high in the cellar as it is.  I plan to seal so more boxes to make room  Seems pointless to have 3-4 of box taking up spaces when I can barely get through the first one!

I like the one year plan ahead.  Easy enough and makes sense.  I was curious about how the vacuum seal would effect the sick period or cause another one.

[joeypots]

I've wrapped a few boxes with this. It's not a vacuum seal but it's easy to use and seems to provide  an airtight barrier.  It seems to be a good option and doesn't require the vacuum sealer machine.

https://smile.amazon.com/Sam-Wrap-Self-Adhering-Industrial-Strength/dp/B0741BZSV3/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia?crid=1VJHKXKW6L9I1&keywords=stretch+wrap+5&pd_rd_i=B0741BZSV3&pd_rd_r=f968a962-bff1-4792-9e80-ccb058c06eff&pd_rd_w=4ezHN&pd_rd_wg=UJglJ&pf_rd_p=1cb3f32a-ccfd-479b-8a13-b22f56c942c6&pf_rd_r=QSF1H1WNW34923W9HF6A&psc=1&qid=1576868866&sprefix=stretch+wrap+%2Caps%2C180

 

 

[Lunettesman]

Vaccum seal with or without a boveda?

 

Vaccum seal and then in a humidity controlled environment or just a temperature controlled environment?

 

Thank you guys so much. Getting sick of not succeeding to achieve proper humidity with my wineadore and I'm considering vaccum seal every boxes. 

[PapaDisco]

56 minutes ago, Lunettesman said:

Vaccum seal with or without a boveda?

 

Vaccum seal and then in a humidity controlled environment or just a temperature controlled environment?

 

Thank you guys so much. Getting sick of not succeeding to achieve proper humidity with my wineadore and I'm considering vaccum seal every boxes. 

I wouldn't put a boveda in with the vacuum sealing.  While I'm a fan of Boveda and use them in my tuppers, they do wear out and you can bust one open in between boxes.  

I concur with The Gipper: it's about the seal not the vacuum so much.  You can simply wrap your boxes in saran wrap (less permeable than standard ziplocks) and be in very good shape for LT aging.  I've had 5 year boxes come out of the wrap just glorious!  Haven't made it to 10 years on anything yet, and I've not noticed a second sick period in my limited experience.

Just make sure your sticks are at the humidity and temperature you want, then wrap and seal (or lightly vacuum wrap if you've got the equipment) and then store them in a tupper at your preferred rH and any minimal permeability will not be a problem.  

[Shelby07]

2 hours ago, PapaDisco said:

I wouldn't put a boveda in with the vacuum sealing.  While I'm a fan of Boveda and use them in my tuppers, they do wear out and you can bust one open in between boxes.  

I concur with The Gipper: it's about the seal not the vacuum so much.  You can simply wrap your boxes in saran wrap (less permeable than standard ziplocks) and be in very good shape for LT aging.  I've had 5 year boxes come out of the wrap just glorious!  Haven't made it to 10 years on anything yet, and I've not noticed a second sick period in my limited experience.

Just make sure your sticks are at the humidity and temperature you want, then wrap and seal (or lightly vacuum wrap if you've got the equipment) and then store them in a tupper at your preferred rH and any minimal permeability will not be a problem.  

Most of the home vacuum sealers allow you to seal the pouch without pulling the air out.

[Lunettesman]

10 hours ago, PapaDisco said:

I wouldn't put a boveda in with the vacuum sealing.  While I'm a fan of Boveda and use them in my tuppers, they do wear out and you can bust one open in between boxes.  

I concur with The Gipper: it's about the seal not the vacuum so much.  You can simply wrap your boxes in saran wrap (less permeable than standard ziplocks) and be in very good shape for LT aging.  I've had 5 year boxes come out of the wrap just glorious!  Haven't made it to 10 years on anything yet, and I've not noticed a second sick period in my limited experience.

Just make sure your sticks are at the humidity and temperature you want, then wrap and seal (or lightly vacuum wrap if you've got the equipment) and then store them in a tupper at your preferred rH and any minimal permeability will not be a problem.  

Thank you for the answer buddy

[Mikeltee]

On 1/6/2020 at 3:32 PM, Lunettesman said:

Vaccum seal with or without a boveda?

 

Vaccum seal and then in a humidity controlled environment or just a temperature controlled environment?

 

Thank you guys so much. Getting sick of not succeeding to achieve proper humidity with my wineadore and I'm considering vaccum seal every boxes. 

Ditch the wineador or use it for stock that you are smoking through. I use 236oz tupperware and 2 bovedas for singles and Remington weatherproof totes with 1# heartfelt beads for boxes. My humidity does not change. If you live in a HVAC house that varies 69-72 you should be great. If you have a basement in this house my guess is that its 65 and your boxes will be best served down there. 

Vacuum sealed boxes need the same love and attention that a non-vacuum sealed box needs. If you can afford to have so many cigars that you must vacuum seal them you can afford a tote and a bag of heartfelt beads. btw... imo vacuum sealing boxes are beneficial for cigars that will be aged for 10+ years or if you get a box that is now at its prime. Air-locking will retard its development. People arent vacuum sealing to combat against uneven environmental conditions.

[semifan1]

I just started sealing boxes last year. Will be intresting once I crack one open.

[Lunettesman]

16 hours ago, Mikeltee said:

Ditch the wineador or use it for stock that you are smoking through. I use 236oz tupperware and 2 bovedas for singles and Remington weatherproof totes with 1# heartfelt beads for boxes. My humidity does not change. If you live in a HVAC house that varies 69-72 you should be great. If you have a basement in this house my guess is that its 65 and your boxes will be best served down there. 

Vacuum sealed boxes need the same love and attention that a non-vacuum sealed box needs. If you can afford to have so many cigars that you must vacuum seal them you can afford a tote and a bag of heartfelt beads. btw... imo vacuum sealing boxes are beneficial for cigars that will be aged for 10+ years or if you get a box that is now at its prime. Air-locking will retard its development. People arent vacuum sealing to combat against uneven environmental conditions.

 

3 hours ago, Yellot00tr said:

As Mike mentioned, vac sealing wasn’t done as a means to stabilize rh, even though it is a beneficial side effect. You’re essentially slowing down the aging process. I feel like it’s more pronounced when it comes to milder sticks because they seem to mellow out faster as they age. By sealing them, you slow that down.

I have some ERDM PC from 07 that I sealed when I received them in 2011, and they seem to taste better than the 08 sticks I tried that hadn’t been sealed. I opened them in Dec with a bunch of my buddies and most guys agreed that the sealed ones were better. The sealed box seemed more complex and had better notes than the 08 sticks. The 08 sticks had a much more subtle flavor profile. But who knows-it’s all kind of subjective. Play around with vac sealing and see how it works for you. Some love it, some think it’s useless. As long as you’re happy, that’s good enough.

Thank you very much for the infos and detailed explanation. Highly appreciated. 

 

I've tried to run the 140l wineadore with 2 pounds of beads, cedars, boveda 320g, Oasis, as Piggy says do what works for you and since I bought it (3 months ago), I cannot keep a proper humidity level (swings from 80%-60 twice an hour). I live in a rather dry environment, and it gets very cold in winter and very warm in summer. 

 

I was hoping that vaccum seal would keep the humidity and that I could use the wineadore when temperature are too hot. I'll age boxes but I ve no intention to slow down the process...

 

I'm getting lost... I was hoping a vacuum seal box would work like a tupperdor...

[medzikone]

20 minutes ago, Lunettesman said:

I cannot keep a proper humidity level (swings from 80%-60 twice an hour)

Tbh, I wouldn't buy CigarOasis for wineadore. For me it's perfect for big, wooden humidors, which are not seal like coolers are. Beads and Bovedas works perfectly for me and my coolidor and samla boxes.

[Mikeltee]

46 minutes ago, Lunettesman said:

 

I'm getting lost... I was hoping a vacuum seal box would work like a tupperdor...

Maybe triple bagging it and double sealing on both ends. No sense in going through all that trouble when you can just get a cooler, tote, or Tupperware. Especially considering it appears you will be opening it quite often to grab a stick. Cut your losses and return that thing if possible else put it on craigslist with a disclaimer. I know it looks cool. If you just have one find one that doesnt leak. You can also do a smoke test and find your leak and seal it.

[Lunettesman]

Just now, Mikeltee said:

Maybe triple bagging it and double sealing on both ends. No sense in going through all that trouble when you can just get a cooler, tote, or Tupperware. Especially considering it appears you will be opening it quite often to grab a stick. Cut your losses and return that thing if possible else put it on craigslist with a disclaimer. I know it looks cool. If you just have one find one that doesnt leak. You can also do a smoke test and find your leak and seal it.

Well I ve a 300 ct wood humidor for everyday consumption. The cooler was thought to be for ageing box and the refrigerator system for when it's like 35c because I don't have an AC. So I rarely open the wineadore. 

 

Sorry but what do you mean as cooler? 

 

For the record, I ve monitored the humidity inside vaccum box (hygrometer in the box) and inside the vaccum (hygrometer outside the box but in the seal) and humidity hasn't changed a percent. 

 

Thanks for your help 

[havanaclub]

Thank you very much for the infos and detailed explanation. Highly appreciated. 
 
I've tried to run the 140l wineadore with 2 pounds of beads, cedars, boveda 320g, Oasis, as Piggy says do what works for you and since I bought it (3 months ago), I cannot keep a proper humidity level (swings from 80%-60 twice an hour). I live in a rather dry environment, and it gets very cold in winter and very warm in summer. 
 
I was hoping that vaccum seal would keep the humidity and that I could use the wineadore when temperature are too hot. I'll age boxes but I ve no intention to slow down the process...
 
I'm getting lost... I was hoping a vacuum seal box would work like a tupperdor...

Do you have CPU fans in your wineador? Or have the back drainage hole sealed?

Fans make a huge difference in my experience at maintaining humidity in the wino and it’s unplugged in my basement. Says at 64-68F throughout the year.


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[Lunettesman]

I ve had one fans that wasn't running all the time. I may have to change this?!?! The hole isn't plugged. I ve a basement shared with all the block I live in. I don't want to leave 10k worth of cigars in an open area like that where people could easily steal it. So I'm looking for a thing that work to cool down the air for the next very hit Summer. 

 

While I was running the wineadore with the fans humidity was very high at the top (80%) and around (60%) at the bottom. Every time the compressor quicks in it drops -12% on average and for a short period of time before recovering to the highs mentioned. Humidity in boxes never changed but it was only for a couple of months that I monitor so I guess with these values for a year the humidity in boxes would eventually rise. 

Sorry I'm deviating from the main subject. Might have to start a new one. I wanted to find answers while reading old Post but I just can't find something that works for me. 

[Lunettesman]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:36 PM, Yellot00tr said:

I rest boxes for a few months after receiving them and then I seal like this.  Farthest back I have sealed like this is 2011.  They smoke really well.

 

*Forgot to mention-I keep them in humidors around 63/65F 

 

 

I've also sealed with Boveda packs like this.  After 4 years, the pack is still soft and squishy. I don't regularly use bovedas when vac sealing. I've only done it with a few boxes and they've never had an issue.

Very very interesting. 4 years and the boveda is still squishy. Great news.