Impact of the new Coronavirus where you are?

[99call]

Just now, bpm32 said:

I tend to think that the delays in the west were due to denial and normalcy bias rather than any bad motives. What happened with China and how they manipulated the WHO is a different matter entirely.

They are all bad motives,  but different in degree, which I completely accept.   

All I'm saying is the blame game is a very sluggish and fruitless way of learning from the failures.   If we believe China to be a rogue state that cant be trusted, then fine, programme that into the disaster plan.   Control what can be controlled.   What I'm saying is that a great deal of the countries that like to think of themselves, as progressive, transparent, etc etc.   lied, delayed, and poorly performed.  We can do something about that, but not if we behave like babies, and point at each other. 

[Fugu]

It certainly is not as black and white, as plain and clear as some might wish it were. There's been good, been questionable, there's been overly wrong and even catastrophic decisions taken - and still are being done. But - while not speaking of deception - we'll only know at hindsight what had been the "best" (there is no "right" here) way to deal with it. In this very moment we are in full swing learning from it, and there is even no 'one size fits all' solution.

[99call]

17 minutes ago, Fugu said:

It certainly is not as black and white, as plain and clear as some might wish it were. There's been good, been questionable, there's been overly wrong and even catastrophic decisions taken - and still are being done. But - while not speaking of deception - we'll only know at hindsight what had been the "best" (there is no "right" here) way to deal with it. In this very moment we are in full swing learning from it, and there is even no 'one size fits all' solution.

I think a good metaphor is tailoring.  And in a tailored response, it's as if the client is losing 20lbs one fitting, then gaining 40lbs the next.   We are all trying to gain modelling information from each other, but it seems to be so individual based on culture and geography etc. 

[bpm32]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

They are all bad motives,  but different in degree, which I completely accept.   

All I'm saying is the blame game is a very sluggish and fruitless way of learning from the failures.   If we believe China to be a rogue state that cant be trusted, then fine, programme that into the disaster plan.   Control what can be controlled.   What I'm saying is that a great deal of the countries that like to think of themselves, as progressive, transparent, etc etc.   lied, delayed, and poorly performed.  We can do something about that, but not if we behave like babies, and point at each other. 

I don’t think China is a rogue state, but I do understand the Chinese impulse to save face and lie their asses off, because I’m Chinese myself?. I’m not sure how other countries were supposed to bake in a Chinese fudge factor—their bogus numbers were probably anywhere from 1.1-100x off reality depending on the figure.

As for those other countries—I’m actually pleasantly surprised by how quickly the western countries reacted as soon as they saw how dire things were in Italy. Maybe I’m too cynical, but I expected our governments to absorb the high death counts rather than close schools, lay people off, and close borders. And I have to grudgingly admit that I’m impressed by how seriously people are taking social distancing here in central California, which I also did not expect.

[99call]

36 minutes ago, bpm32 said:

I don’t think China is a rogue state, but I do understand the Chinese impulse to save face and lie their asses off, because I’m Chinese myself?. I’m not sure how other countries were supposed to bake in a Chinese fudge factor

Everyone is lying their ass off, but maybe not to the point of secret incinerators as the billionaire featured suggested, and that the point of difference, there is zero chance that sort of stuff could be kept quiet in the UK. 

At the moment in the UK, the outward political policy is to have almost 100% lack of trust in A, China, B, Russia, and C, well!.............let's not go there. 

My point is, is everyones heads are spinning around like the nature of China's actions are a surprise......when it's very far from it.  It's almost more expected than not.

 

 

[BrightonCorgi]

So far there are 5 dead in my town from Coronavirus. 

[Nino]

3 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

Not to mention their bias against Taiwan for example, because maybe just maybe China don't likey Taiwan so much. W.H.O. assistant director Bruce Aylward gave an interview to Hong Kong media... The reporter asked him about the struggles in Taiwan. First he pretends he didn't hear. Then she asks again. He says I didn't hear you but let's move onto another question. (Why another question if you didn't hear what she just said.) He hangs up the Skype call. They dial him back and when she asks about Taiwan yet again he cuts the interview short, and replies we already spoke about China. 

 

Fully agree with you - it is a shame that a country like Taiwan which has successfully combatted Covid-19 and from which we could learn good lessons is not even allowed to be a member of the WHO.

That's sick IMHO.

[bpm32]

49 minutes ago, 99call said:

Everyone is lying their ass off, but maybe not to the point of secret incinerators as the billionaire featured suggested, and that the point of difference, there is zero chance that sort of stuff could be kept quiet in the UK. 

At the moment in the UK, the outward political policy is to have almost 100% lack of trust in A, China, B, Russia, and C, well!.............let's not go there. 

My point is, is everyones heads are spinning around like the nature of China's actions are a surprise......when it's very far from it.  It's almost more expected than not.

 

 

Ha, I assume C is the US. Look, the rest of the world never understands this, but we aren’t lying......we’re just delusional!

[99call]

1 minute ago, bpm32 said:

Ha, I assume C is the US. Look, the rest of the world never understands this, but we aren’t lying......we’re just delusional!

No!   how dare you!..............Switzerland!!!......they are very devious,   unregulated cheesemaking etc! 

It was naughty of me to be ambiguous, as it's banned on this forum.....lets leave it there......and not mention the place across the pond. 

[jerrybrowne]

53 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

So far there are 5 dead in my town from Coronavirus. 

Aren't you in the Boston area?  There have been 154 Covid19 deaths in Massachusetts and 8,966 positives so far.  Many of these are in the metropolitan Boston area. 

[El Presidente]

My aim was at the WHO

How they screamed Xenophobia when our prime minister announced the ban of  all Chinese nationals from Australia back in early Feb. 

 

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but in yesterday’s Bloomberg, there was an article saying that classified intelligence reports say that the Chinese did in fact, cover up the actual number of cases as well as the actual number of deaths.

it was also reported on the PBS newshour.

 

3 hours ago, bpm32 said:

I don’t think China is a rogue state, but I do understand the Chinese impulse to save face and lie their asses off, because I’m Chinese myself?. I’m not sure how other countries were supposed to bake in a Chinese fudge factor—their bogus numbers were probably anywhere from 1.1-100x off reality depending on the figure.

As for those other countries—I’m actually pleasantly surprised by how quickly the western countries reacted as soon as they saw how dire things were in Italy. Maybe I’m too cynical, but I expected our governments to absorb the high death counts rather than close schools, lay people off, and close borders. And I have to grudgingly admit that I’m impressed by how seriously people are taking social distancing here in central California, which I also did not expect.

my understanding, and i am happy to be corrected, is that the US had an expert working with WHO/the Chinese in China with a focus on exactly all this. however the decision was made that there was not much point and some money could be saved by removing them. this was done around a month or so before everything blew up. otherwise, the US in particular might have been able to act more quickly. whether it would have helped, who knows (that would be a small 'who', not the 'WHO'). 

[99call]

3 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

my understanding, and i am happy to be corrected, is that the US had an expert working with WHO/the Chinese in China with a focus on exactly all this. however the decision was made that there was not much point and some money could be saved by removing them. this was done around a month or so before everything blew up. otherwise, the US in particular might have been able to act more quickly. whether it would have helped, who knows (that would be a small 'who', not the 'WHO'). 

I think we can assume with so much evidence to suggest foreign countries knew what was coming down the line, that their response and planing was:

A, Gross negligence, and cack handedness, or 

B, An attempt to get a head start on heard immunity, and pretend to their people like it was, all a mistake i.e the delayed response. 

My money is on B

[Capt. Corona]

22 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

my understanding, and i am happy to be corrected, is that the US had an expert working with WHO/the Chinese in China with a focus on exactly all this. however the decision was made that there was not much point and some money could be saved by removing them. this was done around a month or so before everything blew up. otherwise, the US in particular might have been able to act more quickly. whether it would have helped, who knows (that would be a small 'who', not the 'WHO'). 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/488593-four-senators-sold-stocks-before-coronavirus-threat-crashed-market

Oh yea....the top administration knew about it long before the house of cards came tumbling down.

[bpm32]

49 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

it was also reported on the PBS newshour.

 

my understanding, and i am happy to be corrected, is that the US had an expert working with WHO/the Chinese in China with a focus on exactly all this. however the decision was made that there was not much point and some money could be saved by removing them. this was done around a month or so before everything blew up. otherwise, the US in particular might have been able to act more quickly. whether it would have helped, who knows (that would be a small 'who', not the 'WHO'). 

I don’t know, but that wouldn’t surprise me. Everyone always assumes the US has people imbedded everywhere, but I think most of us would be shocked by the truth—that in a lot of critical areas we’re one subject matter expert deep, or zero SMEs deep. You are always fighting the last war and for the last 19 years the US has been hyperfocused on terrorism. After this, we’ll probably be focused on viruses and it’ll be some other damn thing that gets us. You’d think we’d be able to do more than one thing at once....

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, bpm32 said:

I don’t know, but that wouldn’t surprise me. Everyone always assumes the US has people imbedded everywhere, but I think most of us would be shocked by the truth—that in a lot of critical areas we’re one subject matter expert deep, or zero SMEs deep. You are always fighting the last war and for the last 19 years the US has been hyperfocused on terrorism. After this, we’ll probably be focused on viruses and it’ll be some other damn thing that gets us. You’d think we’d be able to do more than one thing at once....

i'm pretty certain i saw it reported on PBS Newshour, which is one of the few news sources i trust. i did not focus as closely as i wish i had now. but as i recall, the states had a woman who was an expert in pandemics etc, working with the chinese authorities (no suggestion that this was covert in any way). she was there basically to assist if there were any issues and to report back home. but as nothing had happened for a while, the govt decided to save some money. a simple economic decision (not looking like a great one now). 

[helix]

 

For you folks that enjoy country music live stream Brad Paisley , Marty Stewart and Vince Gill for the COVID front line...…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ6-i8hI3Gs

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, jerrybrowne said:

Aren't you in the Boston area?  There have been 154 Covid19 deaths in Massachusetts and 8,966 positives so far.  Many of these are in the metropolitan Boston area. 

Yes, Framingham. 

[Ken Gargett]

we have a contender for the stupidest person on the planet.

english novelist (never heard of her) salley vickers. 

"Fit and healthy volunteers should be deliberately infected with Covid-19 so they can help fight the pandemic after their recovery, the novelist and NHS psychotherapist Salley Vickers has proposed."

so people who are actually fit and unaffected get this infection. some might die but tough luck. but at the very last, those volunteers who are currently assisting, would be quarantined for at least 2-3 weeks and unable to assist. and no doubt many would infect others. brilliant.

if the human race had to remember to breath, we'd have been extinct centuries ago. 

[Fugu]

As abstruse as that may appear, similar - a deliberate infection of volunteers - is currently being discussed among experts (incl. ethicists) as a means to speed up the development of vaccines. Mind you - under controlled conditions.

[Ken Gargett]

29 minutes ago, Fugu said:

As abstruse as that may appear, similar - a deliberate infection of volunteers - is currently being discussed among experts (incl. ethicists) as a means to speed up the development of vaccines. Mind you - under controlled conditions.

i've seen discussions on it but i have not seen anything from anyone sane promoting it. 

[Nino]

On 3/24/2020 at 5:25 PM, Mr. Japan said:

A fact : Day 16 of lockdown, only consolation plenty food and cigars.

A fact : No light at end of the tunnel, in Italy.

A fact :   Other Countries are between 2 to 4 weeks behind  Italy in fighting this enemy.

A fact : The reason is that Italy did not believe the Chinese government ( even with late communication ) and other Countries did not believe Italy, blaming as the usual exaggerating . French on newspaper wrote CoronaPizza, British said that lockdown was a good excuse for Italians to stay off work, Austria, Germany would have been better to just close their mouth and USA ... is in the hands of a great liar.

A fact : the world is packed with idiots.

A fact : the world will survive and unfortunately the idiots will not die. So after 6 months we will be where we where six months ago.

my 0,2 cents.

FYI : Germany has taken in more than 150 ICU Covid-19 patients from Italy, France and the Netherlands into German hospitals with free ICU capacity so far.
Flying military A-310 Medevac planes to Italy to pick them up.
And Spain has received a C-130 Hercules plane load full of respirators from Germany.

I agree - the world is well packed with idiots ...

 

[LordAnubis]

I’m just here to post that I’m going out to the shops so wearing my PPE. Finally being Muslim isn’t the scariest thing out there in the world ? Stay safe folks! 

[JohnS]

3 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

I’m just here to post that I’m going out to the shops so wearing my PPE. Finally being Muslim isn’t the scariest thing out there in the world ? Stay safe folks! 

Looking good there, Mus! ?

[BoliDan]

6 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

I’m just here to post that I’m going out to the shops so wearing my PPE. Finally being Muslim isn’t the scariest thing out there in the world ? Stay safe folks! 

I went to the liquor store with a bandana over my face and rubber gloves. I was just glad they didnt think i was going to rob them and then shoot me.