Fugu Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/14/2020 at 9:31 PM, Schumi5 said: Keep on trying as much as I can but my happy place is definitely Sangiovese. 100% works but I find it really sings with some Cabernet (Sauv or Franc) blended in. A fan here also. But don't dismiss the 100%-Sangioveses! Faves of mine are Tuscany's Montevertine 'Le Pergole Torte' (kudos to the family holding up to their standards following the aegis of Sergio Manetti), 'Flacianello' by Fontodi ('07) or e.g. the Umbrian Torgiano red reserve of Lungarotti, the Rubesco 'Vigna Monticchio' (in particular pre 2000, for me, a special mentioning goes to vintages 1988 and '90), with just a small percentage of Canaiolo added. Has long been a steal. And of course Brunellos can be sublime. Other than that? - German Riesling. Dare anyone tell me there is a varietal that's showing even half of its versatility in stiles and expression. Call me an apprentice since four decades and going, still, always something new to discover and learn.... The nice thing about it - you can find quality on all levels of pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Fuzz said: Nice line up there. I always have a bottle or two of De Bortoli Old Boys tawny at home. Not only is it one of my favourites (and first tawny I ever had), the name also has an extra meaning for me. Graduates from my high school are known as "Old Boys". fuzz, graduates from all schools are known as 'old boys'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Fugu said: Other than that? - German Riesling. Dare anyone tell me there is a varietal that's showing even half of its versatility in stiles and expression. Call me an apprentice since four decades and going, still, always something new to discover and learn.... The nice thing about it - you can find quality on all levels of pricing. i'd say Riesling in general. as well as the wonderful germans, great stuff from Oz, nz, states. only thing that might be more versatile is sherry, which, i guess, is not strictly a single grape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugu Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: i'd say Riesling in general. as well as the wonderful germans, great stuff from Oz, nz, states. No, intentionally said "German" Riesling . No, sure, well, that might be purely due to the fact that I just don't have comparable experience due to limited access to other provenances at comparable pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Fugu said: No, intentionally said "German" Riesling . No, sure, well, that might be purely due to the fact that I just don't have comparable experience due to limited access to other provenances at comparable pricing. understood that. i was saying that for me, i'd expand to riesling throughout the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian24 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Grenache, Syrah, Mourvedre. GSM. Can’t get enough. Almost any blend will work. For now, nothing else will do. Haha. To be clear, all blended together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchen Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: i'd say Riesling in general. as well as the wonderful germans, great stuff from Oz, nz, states. only thing that might be more versatile is sherry, which, i guess, is not strictly a single grape. Anyone have any good recommendations on dry Rieslings? I don't drink them often since I cant stand the sweet versions, and I just dont like taking the chance to buy a bottle and open it only to find it not dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchen Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Fuzz said: Nice line up there. I always have a bottle or two of De Bortoli Old Boys tawny at home. Not only is it one of my favourites (and first tawny I ever had), the name also has an extra meaning for me. Graduates from my high school are known as "Old Boys". It really was great. Wish I could get this wine here, it was all pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gweilgi Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: i'd say Riesling in general. as well as the wonderful germans, great stuff from Oz, nz, states. only thing that might be more versatile is sherry, which, i guess, is not strictly a single grape. Sorry, but I am scarred by youthful experiences. I grew up at a time when German Rieslings came in sweet ("halbtrocken") or dry, which meant sour. Couldn't stomach either. But Aussie Rieslings are a very different expression of the grape and a prime example of what one can do with a grape in different terroir. As for sherry, I'd be right with you. It is vastly underestimated and under-appreciated. Amontillado or Fino are perfect for seafood (especially lobster), and few things beat a good oloroso to go with cheese.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wine_junkie Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Kitchen said: Anyone have any good recommendations on dry Rieslings? I don't drink them often since I cant stand the sweet versions, and I just dont like taking the chance to buy a bottle and open it only to find it not dry. Von Winning, Peter Lauer, Donnhoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, wine_junkie said: Von Winning, Peter Lauer, Donnhoff just picked up some Loosen GG from wehlener sonnenuhr which was one of the best dry germans i have seen in ages. huge fan of all donnhoff. one of the greatest visits to any winery i have ever had was here. we spent ages with the great man and at the finish, he was telling us about his latest eiswein (his 2004 eiswein is the one sweeter style wine that can match the 01 yquem) which was only sold at the charity auction for sums like small nation GDPs. he had a total of 113 halves (some kept for the family). he finished by asking if we'd like to try a bottle and so cracked one of the 113!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 50 minutes ago, gweilgi said: Sorry, but I am scarred by youthful experiences. I grew up at a time when German Rieslings came in sweet ("halbtrocken") or dry, which meant sour. Couldn't stomach either. But Aussie Rieslings are a very different expression of the grape and a prime example of what one can do with a grape in different terroir. As for sherry, I'd be right with you. It is vastly underestimated and under-appreciated. Amontillado or Fino are perfect for seafood (especially lobster), and few things beat a good oloroso to go with cheese.... sherry is truly the most underrated and underappreciated wine. have tried to get whipcrack on board, given his heritage i would have thought it a given, but no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wine_junkie Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: just picked up some Loosen GG from wehlener sonnenuhr which was one of the best dry germans i have seen in ages. huge fan of all donnhoff. one of the greatest visits to any winery i have ever had was here. we spent ages with the great man and at the finish, he was telling us about his latest eiswein (his 2004 eiswein is the one sweeter style wine that can match the 01 yquem) which was only sold at the charity auction for sums like small nation GDPs. he had a total of 113 halves (some kept for the family). he finished by asking if we'd like to try a bottle and so cracked one of the 113!! Keller can be solid too but pricey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, wine_junkie said: Keller can be solid too but pricey robert weil. jj prum. plenty more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wine_junkie Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: robert weil. jj prum. plenty more. Robert Weil but they tend towards the sweet side...not a fan of prum...tend towards the one dimensional apple juice note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, wine_junkie said: Robert Weil but they tend towards the sweet side...not a fan of prum...tend towards the one dimensional apple juice note been a fan of Prum for years. had a 2002 Eiswein the other day. glorious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: fuzz, graduates from all schools are known as 'old boys'. Not here in Sydney. None of my friends from other schools were called that. Especially not in public schools. Only one I know besides Fort St is Sydney Grammar (but they also were called Old Sydneysians). Maybe it was different when you graduated... decades before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wine_junkie Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: been a fan of Prum for years. had a 2002 Eiswein the other day. glorious. Never had their Eiswein to be fair! I meant their dryer stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Fuzz said: Not here in Sydney. None of my friends from other schools were called that. Especially not in public schools. Only one I know besides Fort St is Sydney Grammar (but they also were called Old Sydneysians). Maybe it was different when you graduated... decades before me. yes, it was decades. but it was good that you kept going back for so many years until you finally made it! up here, we are all old boys. schools have old boys clubs. not sure about public schools? but if you went to XYZ, then you are an XYZ old boy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, wine_junkie said: Never had their Eiswein to be fair! I meant their dryer stuff we might be at crossed wires. i know that there are a heap of prums (honestly, they are more interbred around there than in Tassie). i'm talking JJ Prum. they have never made drier wines. i know they have discussed it but the current matriarch (a lovely lady - i say that as matriarch sounds so forbidding) has been immovable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gweilgi Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said: sherry is truly the most underrated and underappreciated wine. have tried to get whipcrack on board, given his heritage i would have thought it a given, but no chance. He may need a tasting .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 11 hours ago, Fugu said: A fan here also. But don't dismiss the 100%-Sangioveses! Faves of mine are Tuscany's Montevertine 'Le Pergole Torte' Their tan label is quite good as well, though I think there is a little canaiolo and colorino blended in. Another in this vein that I've always loved is Le Boncie's Le Trame - very sincere wine. For what it's worth, I've a great dislike for cab and / or merlot blended with sangiovese. One that I don't mind too much though, Is Tua Rita Rosso Di Notri, but I think that it might be because there is some syrah along with cab and merlot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 hours ago, gweilgi said: He may need a tasting .... trust me, i have tried. numerous times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wine_junkie Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: sherry is truly the most underrated and underappreciated wine. have tried to get whipcrack on board, given his heritage i would have thought it a given, but no chance. I have only dabbled in Sherry and haven’t been super impressed but I haven’t given it a fair shake. Anywhere you recommend I start or some top examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugu Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 17 hours ago, Kitchen said: Anyone have any good recommendations on dry Rieslings? I don't drink them often since I cant stand the sweet versions, and I just dont like taking the chance to buy a bottle and open it only to find it not dry. Recommendations would depend a lot on what's available in your neck of the woods. The guys above are citing the big names. There is much more to be had at truly considerate pricing. But oftentimes, quite unfortunately, it is only the big-names that get being exported. So, I won't go much into name dropping here, but you may have a general lookout for the cooler regions such as Saar and Nahe (Dönnhoff has been mentioned. Like KBG, I am a huge lover of their sweet wines also. Then there is Emrich-Schönleber in Monzingen (get yourself some 'Halenberg'!), or Schäfer-Fröhlich), which for me often represent the best expression in the dryer stiles (long growing season, at lower sugar/alc). Holding for some Mosels as well. Add to that Rheinhessen - a region not too long ago infamous for its mass-produced bulk-wines with fantasy naming. But make no mistake - those times are gone, and very thankfully so! Quality is in the lead (Klaus-Peter Keller has been named (while not forgetting his wife Julia's parcels in Westhofen), right at the Rheinhessen-top (if not of Germany) together with Wittmann. I'd add Wagner-Stempel and Kühling-Gillot - and tasty, truly tasty and (still, even after having become a VDP-member...) affordable stuff comes from young Stefan Winter out of Dittelsheim - love it!). Rheinhessen has been and still is the region with the strongest dynamcis in Germany, a real revolution with the younger generation taking, resp. having taken over. Do yourself a favour and have a lookout for it! Basically look for GGs ("Großes Gewächs", always dry(-ish), can't go wrong but on the upper end of the pricing scale). Also dry Spätlese, but also dry QbAs are often very good buys (a simple rule of thumb here - alcohol gradation tells you a lot about residual sweetness, a dry Riesling comes in at (11-) 12-14 % alc, 'feinherb' (fruity to semi-sweet) starting below 11/10%. Technically, the GGs are essentially dry Auslese- or Spätlese-level from the top vineyards (first growth). But 'GG' is a category of the VDP only. Non-members can't declare GGs but may likewise make great dry wines, often at very attractive pricing, as they cannot make use of the 'GG'-advertising. But don't undervalue the wines with a bit more residual sweetness! When the extract is there, the right bit of sweetness aids beautifully in the total balance and integration of acidity, alcohol, body, minerality, flavour and aroma. I find myself, as I am getting older, more and more moving away from the Rieslings at the extreme dry end of the spectrum. But - and here comes the but - don't judge any Riesling just by the plain gradation in 'sweetness' - whether sweet, perhaps even botrytized, fruity, "feinherb" or dry. Riesling in all its variants is the greatest expression of its 'terroir', technically "Lage" (and much more than just the soil). A consideration of the stile in terms of 'sweetness' alone would mean completely missing the point. As for buying (I am talkin German reisling only - the 'original' ), you can hardly go wrong when it comes to producer's wines, but do avoid those "brand-wines" with fancy names, which you may find at the grocery store (just get in touch if something's in question). Good thing about German producers is, even the top-top names always carry a range of affordable wines in their lower-tier programs (e.g. grapes harvested from younger plots of their top Lagen, such as Keller's 'von-der-Fels', or de-classifieds in lesser years, usually not coming from "Einzellagen" or just not declared) or the simple "Gutswein"-range. Everyday wines that are likewise excellent value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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