Game of Thrones - a year later

[Ken Gargett]

i finished the series last night (i had avoided any reviews or spoilers, somehow, except that a lot of people were very unhappy with the finale). 

i had read the books some time ago and was rather hoping that Martin would finish before i watched the tv series but i realised i could be waiting for years. so have gone through the series over the last couple of weeks. 

wondering what people's thoughts are now after most have had a year to reflect, now that the dust has settled and the outrage at what happened to your fave characters has diminished (i assume).

i checked an old thread here on FoH which started after the penultimate episode and then continued to after the final one. lot of anticipation and speculation to begin. quite a few picked jon killing dany (at that stage, i had it 60/40 araya/jon to do it (well, perhaps 10% of her surviving). no one picked bran as the ultimate king. 

after the final, lot of people hated the way cersei died. and the whole thing. lot of criticism of the ending. and interestingly, while a lot talked about how great the series was, after the final, a lot talked about how it had gone downhill. a great final episode may have avoided that. unhappiness with that final episode seems to have coloured the view many hold of the entire series. personally, having heard so much bagging of that episode, in thought it way better than i expected. the one change i would have made would have been, as snow and the wildlings walked off north, the last scene would have been drogon flying overhead. 

personally, i thoroughly enjoyed the entire thing. sure, ups and downs. the "dip" in the last couple of seasons coincided with when they went "off-book". a lot of people were very unhappy that there were only 7 and 6 respectively episodes and not the usual ten for the last two. but the length of quite a few of those episodes is much longer than the usual. sure, overall not as long but in time, not that much shorter. 

the problem is tying up everything. it could have gone on for several more series but i thought that they wrapped it up well. the death of cersei was fine for me. an inconsequential death was almost more fitting than some ceremonial beheading. nice symmetry in sending jon snow back to the wall. sansa's development was done well. i was a bit surprised so many main characters survived. 

sure, opportunities for spinoffs and sequels if they want but i am not sure they will. 

overall, there are flaws but i'd give it 9/10 and i just hope he finally finishes the books soon. 

love to hear thoughts from other fans. 

[Ritch]

No replies...

Because we are all pretending it never happened.

It was ruined. It was just bloody ruined. So many little sub plots and details ignored and gone to waste. The last season rushed and ruined.

Much like when your child is a wrong un, it shall not be spoke of and we shall pretend it never happened, so much disappointment...

[Bill Hayes]

I enjoyed it. I don't know what people were expecting but I thought it was great. My favourite part was when Arya came out of the blue and killed the Knight King. Great tension and the look on his face as Arya drops the knife into her other hand was priceless. The only part for me that was disappointing was the picture quality of the battle scene in darkness. I could hardly see a thing. Would like to see it again in high def. But overall, the series was excellent in my opinion. Ken, if you are craving some mystical GOTey type stuff you might want to try season 1 and 2 of Britannia. It's no game of thrones and takes a while to get involved or get viewer buy-in but I enjoyed it.

[MasterYotti]

I very much enjoyed GOT, I think the issue I had with the last season was that it felt rushed. So many events throughout the series would build beautifully, episode after episode, showing the time passing. And you as the viewer, became aware of this because it was like a slow burn. Think of how long Theon was with Ramsey, or Tyrion in the sky cell, or Dani with the Drogo. These events made you get to know the characters more, see what they were thinking/feeling without them even saying it. I feel like the events that transpired at the end of GOT could've made more sense to the majority of fans if we felt like there was context to back it up, if there were multiple scenes or episodes building up the tension so that you believed that it was all the more feasible and believable. Personally, I wish the last two seasons were the longest in the GOT series, I get that the episodes were longer, but I would've like ten 2 hour episodes. I feel like there was plenty of story to tell that could've filled the time and done the entire series more justice than the last season we all received. All in all, I love GOT and it will still be one of the best series I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing.

[benfica_77]

The final season was rushed and incoherent. What a terrible way to end such an amazing show. 

Still trying to find a show that replaces it. Certain shows like GoT, Breaking Bad etc come only every handful of years. 

[Stanislaw]

the internet is partially to blame for the disappointment.  so many set "leaks" that were false, speculative discussions where fans created stories better and more satisfying.  by the time the episodes aired we who read all of that stuff were exhausted and ultimately disappointed because it never reached that fever pitch we had hoped for.  

When Sopranos' final episode was about to air there was plenty of speculation online but they absolutely nailed that finale.  same with breaking bad.  but GOT had no chance to satisfy those who obsessed with the ending before it actually happened.  probably why so many people who were late to the feeding frenzy still walked away satiated.   sometimes the internet ruins it for everybody.

[Ritch]

Let's face it. Anything less than John being king was a let down

[Deeg]

I'm of the opinion that the last couple of seasons were about 80% trainwreck, with the final few eps being a disaster altogether (and I actually think Bran being king is how GRRM will go as well, so that's not the problem).  As the TV series passed the books and Benioff and Weiss had to stake out the plot themselves, the TV series sort of degenerated into a mediocre ASoIaF cover band.

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, Stanislaw said:

the internet is partially to blame for the disappointment.  so many set "leaks" that were false, speculative discussions where fans created stories better and more satisfying.  by the time the episodes aired we who read all of that stuff were exhausted and ultimately disappointed because it never reached that fever pitch we had hoped for.  

When Sopranos' final episode was about to air there was plenty of speculation online but they absolutely nailed that finale.  same with breaking bad.  but GOT had no chance to satisfy those who obsessed with the ending before it actually happened.  probably why so many people who were late to the feeding frenzy still walked away satiated.   sometimes the internet ruins it for everybody.

interesting. i have not seen breaking bad (i have it, so please no spoilers) but i did watch right through the sopranos. i think it was more flawed than many thought, but still great tv. 

i believe being an early example of binging tv allowed it to get away with certain deficiencies. that said, the final is interesting. i thought it was superbly done (loved the somewhat unresolved ending) but i'd argue that at the time it happened, there was far more vitriol aimed at that series for stuffing itself with a poor final than we ever saw with GoT. maybe time has ameliorated that - perhaps it will with GoT. 

[Stanislaw]

you must see Breaking Bad.  quite the ride, moments of sheer terror and twists that will have you yelling aloud at the screen.  do it now!

 

interesting take on Sopranos.  i agree - nothing can be quite perfect.  that show did something (at the time) that no other show did - it made you sit in that world and get to know the players.  i believe it was either season three or four where entire episodes would go by and nothing would really happen.  at the time it was frustrating but looking back now i realize that what David Chase and his team were doing was settling you into the world which made you love/hate the characters at the same time - much like a real relationship.  the ending was initially traumatic and frustrating because everyone (spoiler?) thought that their cable service was disconnected.  it was at that point that the internet began its reign of terror with many people speculating what would happen and everyone assumed it would end in a nice little package (which practically all shows did back in those days).  with time people began to realize that they were genuinely mourning.  at least, that's how it affected me.

with that i come to GOT and i appreciate your posting your thoughts about it because since the quarantine began in NYC i've been rewatching a number of shows and GOT's final season was one of them.  sadly, it didn't get better for me.  there is just such a clear disconnect between the episodes based on the book narrative and then the episodes told by the show runners.  it almost feels like a work of art hanging on a wall, not quite finished and you are excited to see what happens next but then the artist handed the brush to his apprentice and just left them to finish.  so much more could have been done but it was pieces together quickly and forced towards its ending- as if everyone had a plane to catch.  imagine if Sopranos did that - every italian in america would still be spitting on the floor at the very mention of it.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, Stanislaw said:

you must see Breaking Bad.  quite the ride, moments of sheer terror and twists that will have you yelling aloud at the screen.  do it now!

 

interesting take on Sopranos.  i agree - nothing can be quite perfect.  that show did something (at the time) that no other show did - it made you sit in that world and get to know the players.  i believe it was either season three or four where entire episodes would go by and nothing would really happen.  at the time it was frustrating but looking back now i realize that what David Chase and his team were doing was settling you into the world which made you love/hate the characters at the same time - much like a real relationship.  the ending was initially traumatic and frustrating because everyone (spoiler?) thought that their cable service was disconnected.  it was at that point that the internet began its reign of terror with many people speculating what would happen and everyone assumed it would end in a nice little package (which practically all shows did back in those days).  with time people began to realize that they were genuinely mourning.  at least, that's how it affected me.

with that i come to GOT and i appreciate your posting your thoughts about it because since the quarantine began in NYC i've been rewatching a number of shows and GOT's final season was one of them.  sadly, it didn't get better for me.  there is just such a clear disconnect between the episodes based on the book narrative and then the episodes told by the show runners.  it almost feels like a work of art hanging on a wall, not quite finished and you are excited to see what happens next but then the artist handed the brush to his apprentice and just left them to finish.  so much more could have been done but it was pieces together quickly and forced towards its ending- as if everyone had a plane to catch.  imagine if Sopranos did that - every italian in america would still be spitting on the floor at the very mention of it.

GOT's biggest problem, i think, was the loss of the guidance of the books. even though there are many places where the books and tv diverge, sometimes significantly (no resurrection of kat stark a major one for me but plenty of others - i'd forgotten that missandre was only ten in the books and so probably not in a relationship with grey worm and so on). the guys behind the tv just not as good at this world as Martin. imagine if david chase had passed away with 2-3 series to go for the sopranos. i'll bet that whatever happened, that would be the line where almost everyone felt the entire series went downhill. 

but what you say about sopranos links in, for me, with GOT. the nice little package ending we all wanted. seinfeld was the ultimate example of thumbing its nose at that. but it seems to me that is what so many viewers always want, and i'd have been happy if every story line was tied up in the way i would want it. so when cersei is killed by falling rocks, that did not suit all who wanted her to suffer some horrendous and deserving death (which we all would have been very happy to see). but it is much more like what you say - the real relationship or perhaps real world (and yes, i recognise the irony of suggesting that GOT finished more like it might in the real world). 

i have a feeling, if he ever finishes them, that the books might end very differently. not necessarily in the nice package we want, but different again. 

[captaincaveman]

For lack of a better term, it sucked.

[srbbones]

GRRM being too lazy to finish the story, and HBO royally screwing up the ending makes my enthusiasm for GOT decrease by 50%

 

[Ken Gargett]

5 minutes ago, srbbones said:

GRRM being too lazy to finish the story, and HBO royally screwing up the ending makes my enthusiasm for GOT decrease by 50%

 

why do you say too lazy?

the guy says he is writing every day. has given up other projects. it has taken a very long time - i wish it was all finished, very frustrating, but if the guy is getting it right, leave him to it. remember this all started decades ago. no one was hassling him back then, because we'd never heard of it. but now, we all want it asap. 

it is not an easy tying to do and i wish it was finished. but i would hardly accuse him of being lazy. 

[srbbones]

Just now, Ken Gargett said:

why do you say too lazy?

the guy says he is writing every day. has given up other projects. it has taken a very long time - i wish it was all finished, very frustrating, but if the guy is getting it right, leave him to it. remember this all started decades ago. no one was hassling him back then, because we'd never heard of it. but now, we all want it asap. 

it is not an easy tying to do and i wish it was finished. but i would hardly accuse him of being lazy. 

Well, I read the first book in the 1990's.  Historically, on his website, he has, over the years, repeatedly said "almost ready" with the next book.  Then the "next".  He has offered sample chapters, etc.  Then...the delays.  The impression I get, based on no facts, was negative I suppose.  I do admit, though, that I have no proof.  Just years of dealing with him as a fan.   I agree, I probably should not complain.  I did stick with him for a long time.  I just did that because the books were very good

[Ken Gargett]

29 minutes ago, srbbones said:

Well, I read the first book in the 1990's.  Historically, on his website, he has, over the years, repeatedly said "almost ready" with the next book.  Then the "next".  He has offered sample chapters, etc.  Then...the delays.  The impression I get, based on no facts, was negative I suppose.  I do admit, though, that I have no proof.  Just years of dealing with him as a fan.   I agree, I probably should not complain.  I did stick with him for a long time.  I just did that because the books were very good

i'm sure he'd love to finish the thing entirely but i get the impression he is very much the perfectionist and will take as long as it takes him. but love to have them done.

you got into them long before me. i guess that makes it even more frustrating. 

[srbbones]

On 6/23/2020 at 8:06 PM, Ken Gargett said:

i'm sure he'd love to finish the thing entirely but i get the impression he is very much the perfectionist and will take as long as it takes him. but love to have them done.

you got into them long before me. i guess that makes it even more frustrating. 

Ken - I think you would like these:  Land of the Headless, or Jack Glass.  Both by Adam Roberts.  He is quite underrated 

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, srbbones said:

Ken - I think you would like these:  Land of the Headless, or Jack Glass.  Both by Adam Roberts.  He is quite underrated 

thanks. reading the 2nd in philip pullman's second series (dust, following  dark materials) and then have the third in the daevabad trilogy, which i am really looking forward to (loved the first two). 

so will try and get to them shortly. 

[Chibearsv]

Ken, I just finished the roller coaster ride that was the third and final installment of the Daevabad series.  Great recommendation!  I'll give some of the other recommended reads in this thread a try as well.  Looking forward to them.

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Ken, I just finished the roller coaster ride that was the third and final installment of the Daevabad series.  Great recommendation!  I'll give some of the other recommended reads in this thread a try as well.  Looking forward to them.

reading the third one at the moment. cracking stuff.