When rules are meant to be broken.

[El Presidente]

It all started with the 70/70 rule. 

Then it became mainstream that Cubans were best at 65 RH while NC's remained at 70

Then it became  62-63 for Cubans ....although there are some loveable deranged outliers who sprout 55-58 

it was on a discussion a couple of days back about BRC and BR Famoso that I read one of the more insightful posts in a while. It was from 99call.

With Famosos, although they age wonderfully, for me it's not a cigar that really forgives being too dry.   I'm not sure why but there is a lushness in their profile that seems to suit that 'off the rollers table' vibe.    I really enjoy them straight out the humi, with no dry boxing. .........but thats just me

I am in the same boat. 

VR Famoso/Unicos + RASS + Party Mad 1-3........I actually move from my regular holding desktop (65% RH) to a 70% RH desktop for a day or two.  The opposite to dry boxing.   It makes those particular cigars (and ones similar with a christmas cake fruit note) smoke "lusher" to my mind. 

The rest of my cigars I will generally drybox to 62-63 and find them to be perfect for my palate. 

Are there other members who have experimented with different cigars at different RH levels and found that they have a variable marque/vitola/RH   preference?

 

[moneyneversleeps]

"The rest of my cigars I will generally drybox to 62-63 and find them to be perfect for my palate. "   How long do you generally dry box prior to smoking?

[El Presidente]

5 minutes ago, moneyneversleeps said:

"The rest of my cigars I will generally drybox to 62-63 and find them to be perfect for my palate. "   How long do you generally dry box prior to smoking?

for impulse sticks, depending on the time of year. Summer 2-3 days. Winter 1/2-1

Generally, I select what I am going to "likely" smoke for the week on a Sunday night and make the transfer. 

[mprach024]

Oh man I’m gonna probably get crushed for this, but whatever here it goes.  I will not drybox Cohiba or Trini’s unless it’s a Fundadore or a Lancero or any skinny where draw could be an issue.  You called out Xmas Cake as the flavor you’re protecting, for me it’s anything I want to stay creamy or sweet.  I feel I lose the creamed coffee in trini when it’s too dry and the lighter wrappers turn newspapery.  For Cohiba I feel I lose the honey.  Feel free to call me crazy, I’m inclined to probably agree with you.  I also don’t dry box any of my PCs, but that’s just pure laziness.  

[Bijan]

I don't drybox (or wetbox) anything. I feel like short term you're only drying or wetting the wrapper. Maybe people like a slightly drier wrapper and so dryboxing was invented I don't know...

In any case I don't know enough about aging (maybe no one does) to want one humidity level for long term and another for short term. If I didn't like the humidity of my cigars, I'd just solve the problem in storage.

I have two 320g 65% boveda's in each of my coolidor's. Two humidity sensors, one coolidor is 64% at the bottom 60% at the top. The other is 65% at the bottom 63% at the top. I can live with anything in that range so I am happy.

I also have two desktops one at 62-63% and the other at 60%.

[Bri Fi]

The only CC I’ve noticed tastes better higher than 65% is Fonseca no1. I actually just noticed this a couple weeks ago as I stored it in a NC Tupperdore. I may try some other CC this way and see if there’s a difference. FOHrensics? 

[DBNInc]

4 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

The only CC I’ve noticed tastes better higher than 65% is Fonseca no1. I actually just noticed this a couple weeks ago as I stored it in a NC Tupperdore. I may try some other CC this way and see if there’s a difference. FOHrensics? 

I recently discovered that I also like Fonseca at higher RH.  I discovered this by accident when I smoked a couple Cosacos ROTT.  The flavors were fantastic!  When I smoked one a month later, after it had been in my 65% coolidor, it was (comparatively) terrible.

[Riverstyx]

I’ve been experiencing with 69rh Boveda. So far I’ve wetboxed a P2 and Dip2 for months. Tried them both and they were splendid. Much better and richer than normal (64ish rh)

[Gorangutang]

I don't drybox (or wetbox) anything. I feel like short term you're only drying or wetting the wrapper. Maybe people like a slightly drier wrapper and so dryboxing was invented I don't know...

In any case I don't know enough about aging (maybe no one does) to want one humidity level for long term and another for short term. If I didn't like the humidity of my cigars, I'd just solve the problem in storage.

I have two 320g 65% boveda's in each of my coolidor's. Two humidity sensors, one coolidor is 64% at the bottom 60% at the top. The other is 65% at the bottom 63% at the top. I can live with anything in that range so I am happy.

I also have two desktops one at 62-63% and the other at 60%.

[mention=35421]bijan[/mention] What are you using for a coolerdor?

 

 

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[Bijan]

Just now, Gorangutang said:

@bijan What are you using for a cooler for?


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2x 120 Quart Coleman Marine Xtreme:

https://www.coleman.com/all-coolers/hard-coolers/120-quart-xtreme-5-marine-cooler/col_3000002458_pr/COL_3000002458

Helps with temperature fluctuations as I'm storing in my cold storage room. Also have a small-ish tupperdor in that room.

[prshah25]

My humidor is at 69rh. I am not sure if it’s technically dry boxing but I clip the cap and throw my Cuban cigar in the fridge for 2-3 hours and let it outside for 15 minutes before smoking. It seems to draw and taste better I think. My 2 cents:-)

[Gorangutang]

2x 120 Quart Coleman Marine Xtreme:
https://www.coleman.com/all-coolers/hard-coolers/120-quart-xtreme-5-marine-cooler/col_3000002458_pr/COL_3000002458
Helps with temperature fluctuations as I'm storing in my cold storage room. Also have a small-ish tupperdor in that room.

That’s crazy. It’s basically a giant tupperdor? I suppose coolers are air tight? How many boxes would you say one of those can hold?


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[Bijan]

9 minutes ago, Gorangutang said:

That’s crazy. It’s basically a giant tupperdor? I suppose coolers are air tight? How many boxes would you say one of those can hold?


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30 boxes at least for bigger sizes. One of them has smaller boxes (minutos, Petit Coronas, etc) so maybe 40 there.

[fastkiller13]

Only thing I can think of about 70 for NC is that it’s a much easier number for large walk in humidors to maintain. I’m talking retailers, or crazy people who build them in their homes @BTWheezy.  

NCs are already aged when they reach us - we’d need an expert to answer this, I’m sure several exist here - but after a few years at 65 RH will tobacco actually absorb water vapor at a rate quick enough to make “wet boxing” work? Consistent temp to make it simpler. 

I like Tubos at a higher RH ~68. I think it helps the cedar infuse flavor and I actually find the cigars have the same feel to them as my 62-65 guys.  Like most of my cigar preferences/habits most of it is probably in my head.  I take notes when I smoke and have come up with some real keen observations. Boil PC 62 or bust, any RA is 65 or its ruined ( I enjoy them regardless but who doesn’t like to complain). I think regionals are best smoked after 30 days down and take a quick tumble (usually after they aren’t a hot item).
 

Again all this is mostly strange quirks I’ve picked up along the way. 
But like any good scientist I will gladly smoke your cigars at whatever RH you tell me to and will then proceed to tell you I was right and you’re a fool. That is what science does right? 

Best Gentlemen, it has been awhile but I am happy to be here and smoking again. 
 

Ted

[NSXCIGAR]

70/70 was old school, pre-internet. I also think pre-2000, CCs were a lot less temperamental in terms of short-term storage. Something changed, whether it was the new strains or the new fermentation techniques implemented around then. CCs now perform much better fresh and IMO change much less within 3 years. I smoke all sorts of cigars from 16 and 17 and honestly can't tell if they're fresh or not. 

I think post-2000 CCs can be affected greatly by rH. Generally, they need to be on the drier side, but some do seem to do better in the high 60s like VR. 

[Baccy]

For me it never had anything to do with flavor. It was about mold and also burn issues. I could never control things at 70%rh. Maybe if I had a better way to control temps but unfortunately I don't ATM... I would love to keep everything at about 69/69. I love a nice moist pliable cigar. I think they do indeed taste a bit better at around 70rh, but it just isn't meant to be. I must keep my Cubans at 65. I may try to experiment a little bit by keeping smalls batches at 69 just to try...

...On a side note, I live in a very humid climate year round. I could almost get away w/out even using humidors, BUT I would never chance it. As I recall there are some forum members here who actually do that! I can't remember who it was but I do remember reading that. 

[BoliDan]

I like my cohibas at 90/15. Personal preference.

[david9985]

This is a very interesting thread. A few people have named some specific marcas and vitolas that suit the higher humidities. What are the specific cigars that you feel have to be at the drier end of the scale?

[99call]

10 hours ago, El Presidente said:

VR Famoso/Unicos + RASS + Party Mad 1-3

Yep I can understand that selection.   

For me I noticed the following:

Fruity, or chocolate driven cigars with a sweet dessert edge to them, can benefit (for me) from a slightly higher RH.   The higher moisture content seems to accentuate the production of heavy, hanging 'chewy' smoke. It seems to increase the opulence and unctuousness both in flavour and in smoke output

On the flip side I would suggest that floral, vanilla, tannin rich/woody cigars like, the Hoyo Du Gourmet, or Des Dieux, need to be on the dryer side.   I remember within the last year forgetting to dry box a 2013 Des Dieux (it had also been raining), and it was like making a pot of tea with the collection bag from a belt sander,  Almost too tannic to derive any enjoyment,  A true waste and all my fault. 

like any subject imaginable with cigars however, I'm sure a consensus will never be found

 

[99call]

25 minutes ago, david9985 said:

What are the specific cigars that you feel have to be at the drier end of the scale?

I can only speak for myself, but I find tannic, floral, woody cigars like Trini Coloniales, Hoyo Des Dieux, old band Quai D'Orsay, JL1, Anything Sancho Panza.   In my experience their aromatic, exotic flavours are all heightened/defined,  when enjoyed at 65 and lower

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, Gorangutang said:

That’s crazy. It’s basically a giant tupperdor? I suppose coolers are air tight? How many boxes would you say one of those can hold?


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Not all coolers are air-tight.

[Duxnutz]

This is an interesting piece of gum to chew on.

[david9985]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

I can only speak for myself, but I find tannic, floral, woody cigars like Trini Coloniales, Hoyo Des Dieux, old band Quai D'Orsay, JL1, Anything Sancho Panza.   In my experience their aromatic, exotic flavours are all heightened/defined,  when enjoyed at 65 and lower

Thank you! It makes so much sense that different blends would suit different conditions that I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more.

And the perceived wisdom of NCs suiting higher humidities relative to CCs... is that based on construction or on flavour profiles? I had always assumed the former. It is interesting that when construction is spot on, "wet" cigars are still able to burn well.

[medzikone]

I prefer all marevas/petit coronas in 65-69% RH. 62 is too low and cigars have a bit lack of taste

[99call]

46 minutes ago, david9985 said:

Thank you! It makes so much sense that different blends would suit different conditions that I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more.

And the perceived wisdom of NCs suiting higher humidities relative to CCs... is that based on construction or on flavour profiles? I had always assumed the former. It is interesting that when construction is spot on, "wet" cigars are still able to burn well.

I cant really speak for NC's as my last experience with them is a good 20yrs ago. 

Anything I've said is just my experience and my preference, i imagine for every person like me, there with be someone who swears by the exact opposite.   Nothing is gospel in cigars, or cigar smokers. 

In one of the early FOH video reviews, I think @El Presidente referred to smoke from the cigar they were enjoying as "unctuous"  @Ken Gargett responded by saying the "Unctuous" actually meant greasy

Adjective[edit]

unctuous (comparative more unctuous, superlative most unctuous)

1. (of a liquid or substance) Oily or greasy. quotations ▼
2. (of a wine, coffee, sauce, gravy etc.) Rich, lush, intense, with layers of concentrated, soft, velvety flavor. quotations ▼
3. (by extension, of a person) Profusely polite, especially unpleasantly so and insincerely earnest. quotations ▼

Synonyms[edit]

• (of a liquid): oleaginous, saponaceous, slimy; see also Thesaurus:unctuous
• (of wine, coffee, sauce, gravy etc.): savorous
• (profusely, especially unpleasantly, polite): creepy, effusive, groveling, oleaginous, slimy, sycophantic; see also Thesaurus:sycophantic

 

I guess when referring to cigars, we are more weighting our use of "unctuous" with regards to the rich, lush, intense, velvety fields of reference.    I have no idea if there is any science behind it, but maybe the higher moisture content, may act as a vehicle to let the oils hang in the air, creating this rich seemingly oily smoke. ???? who knows? all cack handed projections on my part.