The golden era of your favourite sporting team is at an end....team rebuild......how do you do it?

[99call]

So, the only two sporting teams I support is the Wales national rugby team, and the British and Irish lions... nothing less...... nothing more.

My question is this.  I've just watched my national side lose to France.  France are a great team on the up, but we have beaten them quite handsomely in the last decade.    Do we panic or do we move forward calmly and confidently?

We have an ageing,  once in a lifetime group of players....Dan Biggar, Alun Wyn Jones, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North etc, they are all coming to the end of their glorious careers.........My question is this....

Even if you are staring into the abyss.  i.e the players that might come in,  may be massively under skilled or under developed.   What do you do.  Do you stick with a dying squad?   or do you take a gamble on a new unexperienced team and have some major losses?

 

[mprach024]

Detroit Lions....rebuilding since 1970

University of Michigan...Until we can beat Ohio State the rest is irrelevant

Manchester United....May never return to its former glory until club replaces leadership (Woodward), or the owners sell

Tiger Woods....enjoy the sunset

[99call]

1 minute ago, mprach024 said:

Detroit Lions....rebuilding since 1970

University of Michigan...Until we can beat Ohio State the rest is irrelevant

Manchester United....May never return to its former glory until club replaces leadership (Woodward), or the owners sell

Tiger Woods....enjoy the sunset

Sadly, our last manager Warren Gatland was a coach/leader for the ages.  he over saw (much like Ferguson) about 3 different team rebuilds, every one more successful than the last.     I can't help but feel we will be in the wilderness of a great deal of losses, for a long time to come.    Also the rise of the national Welsh football team is siphoning off a great deal of athletic talent from what was Wales's number 1 sport.   

God damn'it!!!    it's going to be a tough decade

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, 99call said:

So, the only two sporting teams I support is the Wales national rugby team, and the British and Irish lions... nothing less...... nothing more.

My question is this.  I've just watched my national side lose to France.  France are a great team on the up, but we have beaten them quite handsomely in the last decade.    Do we panic or do we move forward calmly and confidently?

We have an ageing,  once in a lifetime group of players....Dan Biggar, Alun Wyn Jones, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North etc, they are all coming to the end of their glorious careers.........My question is this....

Even if you are staring into the abyss.  i.e the players that might come in,  may be massively under skilled or under developed.   What do you do.  Do you stick with a dying squad?   or do you take a gamble on a new unexperienced team and have some major losses?

 

interesting. i remember the welsh team of the early and mid 70s. i would have said that they might have been a once in a lifetime team. never really felt that about this recent lot, even though obviously a decent team. 

rebuilding. tougher than you think - different for different sports. especially for national against teams in competitions. do you rely on spotting talent and if so, from where, or are you in a draft? do you start in the front office, or with the coaches, or the players? 

i started following the former skins back in the late 80s. assumed they'd always been great. been rubbish since early/mid 90s. rubbish. still rebuilding but going backwards. can't ever get it right. 

locally, we have the broncos - one of the great rugby league teams of the last 35 years. half a dozen premierships, almost never missing the finals. one of the feared teams. just got our first wooden spoon. some good players, but no direction, no leadership and a once unparalleled culture in tatters. we will see if they can rebuild. it won't be easy or quick but they have the money and they are in a market that simply won't tolerate losing for long. 

as for old v new, the great brad thorn, former bronco, state of origin star and australian kangaroo and then great all black, took over as our reds rugby coach a few years. back. anyone not on board with the culture he wanted went. no questions, gone. he went young, with a couple of exceptions. has worked extremely well. i think you go a mix. the older guys must be leaders and clearly worthy of their spot. 

i hope you rebuild that rugby team to a level where they can beat england but not us, although that assumes that we might be able to beat england (i remember what seems not long ago when beating england was a formality - not to do so was a disgrace) at some stage in the years to come. 

[99call]

10 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

interesting. i remember the welsh team of the early and mid 70s

No, would never suggest the recent team had eclipsed that of the 1970's,    just that the recent team was I very high standard compared to the dross we were served up in the 1980's 90's early 2000's.   that 30 years was very painful, and I feel thats where we are headed once more. 

In terms of re-building, I think one of the things Gatland got so right, was his preoccupation with the World Cup and the Six Nations.   He was canny enough to know that if we lost to all and sundry in Autumn internationals that meant nothing, the Welsh public would grumble and moan,   but all would b forgiven if we won grand slams, and reached the later stages of World Cups,  something he managed with regularity. 

I think he was also a pragmatist in the talent that had in the team, and where his power was on the field.   I can't remember the exact quote but Tom Shanklin (a sort of workhorse centre) in the 2000s was going to get his 50th cap.   In the dressing room with the whole team and coaching staff, Gats said something to the effect.

"It's Shanks's 50th today, and you should all look up to him,  he may not be the fastest, or the best passer of the ball, or the most naturally talented, in fact when I used to coach Wasps, and we would play against Shanks, I would actively try to attack all of his weaknesses..............all that said,  he's a model professional, he's gotten every ounce of talent out of what he's got, he's left nothin in the locker, and thats a great example to set......."

Although an unexpected, awkward, but ultimately honest account of his attributes,  Shanklin, in later years, said, he was right, and that whats the point in sugar coating it.  What a player needs to know is how good they are, and how good they can be, and how to take that journey.   Gat's was simply stating that the player pool was very shallow, but if everyone gave everything they had, they could and maybe would win. 

I don't hold out much hope for the next crop of players coming through,   it's tough when 5 of your most experienced leaders and your best coach, all bow out within a 3year window.    I think it's going to get Ugly. 

Good to see Aussie get a draw with the AB's the other day.  The only way is up after Cheika,  I thought he was shambolic 

[David88]

I think wales need to gradually start replacing some of their older or underperforming big names if they want to build anything for the next World Cup or even just avoid a number of years of absolute pastings. While Gatland was a great head coach I think some players in that side were guaranteed their places for too long.
 

I would want to see a transition period of around 2 years, then start really building that side for the World Cup. I think they should start to pick players playing in other leagues as while it’s great for promoting the regions, it’s not massively helpful in building a talent pool. I’m not sure that will happen though....

[Bill Hayes]

I can only comment on Australian Rules Football. There is a draft system where the lower you finish the higher in order of draft picks you get. So, if you finish last you get pick 1. Probably very different in International Rugby. But following my side Richmond who were a powerhouse in the late 60's, early 70's and early 80's then imploded through arrogance and a ruthless culture of sacking coaches and not paying top players well enough. 37 years until we won again in 2017. How they did it was build the club from Admin up first to ensure the club's future. CEO Ben Gale joined the club in 2010 and launched a fighting Tiger fund for supporters to contribute to so they could upgrade training facilities. This was the start. He also made the brash statement that we would win premierships and have 70,000 members in 10 years. We have 3 premierships and 100,000+ members (members pre-pay the club for the season's games or have it taken from an account weekly, that way more money goes directly to the club). They also then spent money on great support staff, recruitment, line coaches, development coaches, fitness, physio, psyc, ect. This set the framework to make the Tigers more of a destination club for good players and recruits. In 2017 they employed Neil Balme as director of football. He had success at other clubs who won premierships. He was also an ex Tigers player. They found the money and he went about changing the culture from negative to fun. It has changed the way AFL clubs now look at running a club by making everything enjoyable and a learning experience. It went from a team of individuals in 2016 worried about their spot in the team and playing for themselves and individual stats to a whole club attitude of rewarding the team things where players were willing to sacrifice their own game for the betterment of the team with positive reinforcement. Before a game Tigers players have a smile on their face. They have won the last 2 premierships all through honesty. The coach admitted he was doing it wrong in 2016 and the CEO and President backed him and re-signed him for 4 more years. Brave move. They moved on players that were on the back end of their careers and just going through the motions and kept the guys in their prime who were leaders. They also recruited wisely from other clubs by identifying players that would fit into the culture and the new game plan. The state government announced yesterday, in a grab for votes, that they will give Richmond $15.5 million to further improve their facilities, with the focus on inclusion, diversity and indigenous programs... as well as a training oval redevelopment to make it the size of the mighty MCG! Should only make the club stronger.

With rugby I guess you can take learnings from keeping good eggs and tossing a few stars in order to blood some new players but it's important to keep leadership on field. You can't just toss them all and start again. It's amazing what a culture change can do. The band aid just needs to be ripped off sometimes unfortunately.