Cuba raises state prices for cigars by 20%?

[bates40]

I usually just focus on custom rolls when in HAV anyways...and RUM

[chris12381]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:46 PM, mcicvara said:

Yes.  CUC.  I added a link on the spreadsheet to the original source document.

[Bijan]

Looking at this list again there are several popular items that are now available on 24:24 clearance for the same price or even less, such as Montecristo No.2.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

Looking at this list again there are several popular items that are now available on 24:24 clearance for the same price or even less, such as Montecristo No.2.

Again, this is CUC. CUC is trading at 1.5:1. Taking that into account most prices are below what they were in early 2020. 

[Bijan]

Just now, NSXCIGAR said:

Again, this is CUC. CUC is trading at 1.5:1. Taking that into account most prices are below what they were in early 2020. 

Yes I know. Makes sense. But as a naive tourist who usually uses his credit card as much as possible in Cuba this would have probably stopped me from buying any boxes, if I didn't frequent these forums or wasn't in some other way in the know. And even then I don't know if I would venture onto the black market without some more knowledgeable person along to guide me.

[NSXCIGAR]

Just now, Bijan said:

Yes I know. Makes sense. But as a naive tourist who usually uses his credit card as much as possible in Cuba this would have probably stopped me from buying any boxes, if I didn't frequent these forums or wasn't in some other way in the know. And even then I don't know if I would venture onto the black market without some more knowledgeable person along to guide me.

But the prices are now so nominally high on most items you just wouldn't buy anything. If you didn't know you wouldn't buy. Kind of takes care of itself.

I also would not recommend Cuba for a "naive" tourist. 

[Bijan]

13 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

But the prices are now so nominally high on most items you just wouldn't buy anything. If you didn't know you wouldn't buy. Kind of takes care of itself.

I also would not recommend Cuba for a "naive" tourist. 

Yes agreed if you knew the common international prices you wouldn't buy anything. But then it might also remove some of the incentive for the trip.

As to the issue of naivete. Depends where you are located I think most American and Australian tourists are savvy. Meanwhile most tourists from Canada (and many from Europe) are going to all inclusive resorts. It's a totally different situation. And I don't think it matters how naive you are in that case. As you say those people won't buy any cigars in Cuba if they have any notion of prices elsewhere. Though many Canadians will still buy them as they're about the same price as online and you can bring them home with no risk of duties. So maybe it is a smart strategy.

[NSXCIGAR]

11 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Yes agreed if you knew the common international prices you wouldn't buy anything. But then it might also remove some of the incentive for the trip.

As to the issue of naivete. Depends where you are located I think most American and Australian tourists are savy. Meanwhile most tourists from Canada (and many from Europe) are going to all inclusive resorts. It's a totally different situation. And I don't think it matters how naive you are in that case. As you say those people won't buy any cigars in Cuba if they have any notion of prices elsewhere. Though many Canadians will still buy them as they're about the same price as the online and you can bring them home with no risk of duties. So maybe it is a smart strategy.

Sure, but I don't think anyone's planning a Cuba trip specifically for purchasing a couple boxes of cigars. 2 boxes is the max you can bring back in Canada and everywhere else is less. So you save a few hundred dollars over Canadian price? And many Canadians are purchasing online anyway--certainly any frequent smoker is.

As far a tourism, all-inclusive is fine--Cuba has that. But no one should be navigating Havana unless their eyes are open. Why would even a naive person not from the US (other than Canada) purchase cigars in Cuba if they appear to be the same price as their home country? 

All official prices are going to rise because officially Cuba's keeping the CUC at 1:1 to the dollar even though it's de facto overvalued. Most won't have any idea of the street exchange rate and use a credit card or exchange for 1:1 at official locations.

As is usually the case, it pays to be in the know.

[Bijan]

21 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Sure, but I don't think anyone's planning a Cuba trip specifically for purchasing a couple boxes of cigars. 2 boxes is the max you can bring back in Canada and everywhere else is less. So you save a few hundred dollars over Canadian price? And many Canadians are purchasing online anyway--certainly any frequent smoker is.

You'd be surprised. I think Americans don't appreciate the freedom from cigar taxation and the insane level of Canadian taxation (one of many countries with this issue). An all inclusive trip to a 3 star resort is or was $800, a fancy resort is or was $1500 (you can probably pay more of course). Meanwhile the difference between the price of one box of Esplendidos in a cigar shop in Canada and Cuban prices is greater than either. The difference in price between 2 boxes of Esplendidos at the cheapest price you can legally get them from the stores on native reserves in Canada and Cuba prices would more than cover the expense of the fancy resort.  Also if you have a spouse or partner that's another 2 boxes (of course requiring another vacation package, but since it's profitable for one person, it's profitable for two). (technically I believe the limit is $750 per person and 50 cigars, so two boxes of Esplendidos would put you over the limit, but I believe that would then be 13-15% sales tax and not duties, though I am not sure).

21 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

As far a tourism, all-inclusive is fine--Cuba has that. But no one should be navigating Havana unless their eyes are open. Why would even a naive person not from the US--other than Canada--purchase cigars in Cuba if they appear to be the same price as their home country? 

You don't need to navigate Havana to buy cigars. All the hotels sell them at the same prices, possibly with less selection. And there are less and less countries where you can get Cuban cigars at even the new inflated prices due to taxation.

21 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

All official prices are going to rise because officially Cuba's keeping the CUC at 1:1 to the dollar even though it's de facto overvalued. Most won't have any idea of the street exchange rate and use a credit card or exchange for 1:1 at official locations.

Fully understood.

21 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

As is usually the case, it pays to be in the know.

Most definitely!

[NSXCIGAR]

54 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Meanwhile the difference between the price of one box of Esplendidos in a cigar shop in Canada and Cuban prices is greater than either. The difference in price between 2 boxes of Esplendidos at the cheapest price you can legally get them from the stores on native reserves in Canada and Cuba prices would more than cover the expense of the fancy resort. 

Ok, but then you've got other expenses and airfare. You're not going to find Esplendidos, Siglo VI or any such high end box easily if at all, certainly not at the pathetically stocked resort-area LCDHs. So you'll have to taxi it to Havana ($70) and then bop around Havana all day to find what you're looking for ($70).

And again, Canadians are buying quite a bit online as well. They're not forced to pay the Canadian prices always. Lots of Canadians on FoH.

54 minutes ago, Bijan said:

You don't need to navigate Havana to buy cigars.

To hop around and buy cigars from reptable shops, no, but I have seen fakes in a lot of stores both in and outside of Havana. And the drivers rarely know all the shops. And of you're naive or a Cuba novice you're going to be paying 25-50% more for that taxi.

To find something you're looking for you may have to hit 10+ shops. Then you have to get lunch for two in Havana ($40) and possibly dinner ($75). The savings from trying to pick up four boxes of cigars for $500 less than Canadian prices starts not to look too great considering the hassle, time and expense.

[Bijan]

@NSXCIGAR

My experience is half a decade or more in the past where availability was quite good. And assumed you or a friend or relative could get the boxes without much trouble.

It is one of the commandments of this site not to talk about shipping or customs/duties but buying 4 boxes of Esplendidos or Siglo VI or similar online into Canada is not without potential worries. And if I or a friend or relative were going and could get such boxes without too much trouble it would be very nice.

If it now involves looking in 10+ shops it is a different story.

But again if a friend or relative were going and could get four nice boxes not necessarily top shelf it would still be good though not necessarily to the point of subsidizing the whole trip.

If you are curious as to the details of what price level for a box in Cuba would make it more desirable than buying online please PM. As again it involves the specifics of Canadian duties 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

My experience is half a decade or more in the past where availability was quite good. And assumed you or a friend or relative could get the boxes without much trouble.

Hmm...when were cigars like Esplendidos, Siglo VI or Lanceros readily available in Cuba? Been more than 5 years to my knowledge. 

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

4 boxes of Esplendidos or Siglo VI or similar online into Canada is not without potential worries. And if I or a friend or relative were going and could get such boxes without too much trouble it would be very nice.

Why would you buy 4 at home? We're only talking about that number from Cuba because that's what you'd have to get at once to even make it worth going. If you're home, buy one at a time. Again, I don't think there's been too many issues from members here.

I know where CDN prices are. Yes, if you picked up 4 boxes of Esplendidos or Siglo VI per trip it would work out, but you won't find anything that high-end, that I can promise you, at least not from 2015-2020. Certainly not the average person.

And then we're back to assuming no Canadian buyers can escape the duties (or a large portion of them) which just isn't true today. 

[Bijan]

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Why would you buy 4 at home?

Sorry I meant 4 total (in that case vs Cuba) not 4 at once. Of course you are right no reason to buy all 4 at once in Canada.

[Habana Mike]

The struggle is real 

https://yulcigars.blogspot.com

[BuzzArd]

On 11/4/2020 at 2:23 PM, chris12381 said:

I was wrong.  A Gaceta Oficial was published  YESTERDAY.  

FINANZAS Y PRECIOS GOC-2020-689-O77 RESOLUCIÓN NO. 258/2020

 

 

Seems this article is no longer available?

[chris12381]

21 minutes ago, BuzzArd said:

Seems this article is no longer available?

Thanks.  I just fixed the broken link to the PDF as well as the one on the Google Sheet.

[La_Tigre]

On 11/4/2020 at 3:23 PM, chris12381 said:

I was wrong.  A Gaceta Oficial was published  YESTERDAY.  

FINANZAS Y PRECIOS GOC-2020-689-O77 RESOLUCIÓN NO. 258/2020

I have put the new price list into a Google Sheet.  SEE IT HERE.

RESUELVO

 

PRIMERO: Establecer los precios minoristas en pesos convertibles, de los tabacos habanos, relacionados en el Anexo Único, que forma parte integrante de la presente Re- solución, que se comercializan por las cadenas de tiendas, entidades pertenecientes al Sistema del Turismo y otras entidades económicas autorizadas a comercializar productos minoristas en dicha moneda.

SEGUNDO: Establecer el Impuesto Especial a Productos y Servicios, con un tipo impositivo del seis por ciento (6%), sobre las ventas minoristas de los tabacos habanos comercializados de conformidad con lo establecido en el apartado anterior.

TERCERO: Establecer que los precios de los tabacos habanos que se comercializan en el segundo canal de distribución, entre estos la gastronomía, cafeterías y espacios que no son identificados como tiendas, pertenecientes al Sistema del Turismo y otras entidades económicas, deben ser superiores al menos un quince por ciento (15%) a los establecidos en la presente Resolución.

 

 

Anybody make a cross referenced list with only increases/decreases against the other price list (YUL)?

[Bijan]

11 minutes ago, La_Tigre said:

Anybody make a cross referenced list with only increases/decreases against the other price list (YUL)?

YUL just updated to new prices. So you'd have to look at old YUL list.

[chris12381]

 

44 minutes ago, La_Tigre said:

Anybody make a cross referenced list with only increases/decreases against the other price list (YUL)?

I'm considering it.  It will take time.  I think it's also worth pointing out that in addition to the price increases, the Gaceta is establishing a 6% across the board tax on all of these increases if you buy in a tobacco store.  If you buy outside of one these stores, such as a restaurant, tourist facility, etc. then tax is 15%.  

So let's play a game.  

A box of Cohiba Robustos, under the new pricing is now 496 CUC...or 525.76 CUC with with new 6% tax added.  For those not based in US, I don't know what you would pay in CC fees but I'm sure you'd be kicking in at least 3% to the Cubans in "conversion fees".  You could obviously avoid those fees by going to the street but when you start to talk about that amount of money, you better damn well know and trust the person you're working with.   They're getting close to reaching parity with Spain prices.  Current price of Cohiba Robustos in Spain today is 546.25€

Unless I find a diamond in the rough (which might start happening with these prices), custom rolled cigars or the Ediciónes Regionales Cuba, I don't see why I'm not going to start bringing my own cigars to Cuba...and order what I want from the comfort of my home when I return.  Especially when I know I'm going to get quality cigars that way.  

[La_Tigre]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

YUL just updated to new prices. So you'd have to look at old YUL list.

I have a copy saved of the last two versions of someone needs it for this purpose. 

27 minutes ago, chris12381 said:

 

I'm considering it.  It will take time.  I think it's also worth pointing out that in addition to the price increases, the Gaceta is establishing a 6% across the board tax on all of these increases if you buy in a tobacco store.  If you buy outside of one these stores, such as a restaurant, tourist facility, etc. then tax is 15%.  

So let's play a game.  

A box of Cohiba Robustos, under the new pricing is now 496 CUC...or 525.76 CUC with with new 6% tax added.  For those not based in US, I don't know what you would pay in CC fees but I'm sure you'd be kicking in at least 3% to the Cubans in "conversion fees".  You could obviously avoid those fees by going to the street but when you start to talk about that amount of money, you better damn well know and trust the person you're working with.   They're getting close to reaching parity with Spain prices.  Current price of Cohiba Robustos in Spain today is 546.25€

Unless I find a diamond in the rough (which might start happening with these prices), custom rolled cigars or the Ediciónes Regionales Cuba, I don't see why I'm not going to start bringing my own cigars to Cuba...and order what I want from the comfort of my home when I return.  Especially when I know I'm going to get quality cigars that way.  

I’m with you on that point. Not to mention the latest greatest occurrence. I’m not sure it will ‘stick’ for much longer but...

Sooooo...just buying customs from Alex, Reynaldo to smoke on the island until seeing how this plays out, too. 

[Bijan]

5 minutes ago, La_Tigre said:

I have a copy saved of the last two versions of someone needs it for this purpose. 

Thanks! I think they still have the old one up on their previous posting.

Old: http://yulcigars.blogspot.com/2017/12/cigar-price-list-for-cuba-2017-2018.html

vs

New: http://yulcigars.blogspot.com/2020/11/cigar-price-list-for-cuba-20202021-new.html

[Nino]

1 hour ago, chris12381 said:

Unless I find a diamond in the rough (which might start happening with these prices), custom rolled cigars or the Ediciónes Regionales Cuba, I don't see why I'm not going to start bringing my own cigars to Cuba...and order what I want from the comfort of my home when I return.  Especially when I know I'm going to get quality cigars that way.  

I had the same calculations many moons back and decided it was either same price or cheaper to buy CC in Switzerland ( before the Swiss Franc went through the roof ) and I would get much better selection and better quality buying from my Swiss merchant.

Guess it might be back to those roots again and only CR's and special cigars attractive in HAV.

Not sad, saves me a lot of hassle.

[chris12381]

2 hours ago, nino said:

Not sad, saves me a lot of hassle.

Not really sad for me either.  I have other reasons for going to Cuba. ??