Question on the E2's

[El Presidente]

I had an email Monday for a member looking for Partagas Serie E2 from El Laguito.  I found some yesterday in the warehouse (up Monday) but my question to regular smokers of the E2..............Can you tell a consistent difference (flavour/construction/quality)between an El Laguito E2 and one produced at say Partagas (MSU etc)?

I have my thoughts but I will jump in once this is kicked around for a while 

 

[TTP21]

My disclaimer - Limited sample size for me.  Construction and quality, zero difference.  Flavor is where I have noticed a difference whereas the non-El Laguito are like D4 and Lusi but smooth as can be.  The El Laguna are the opposite - incredibly strong and in need of some serious down time.  At least I hope that's a cure for them to this point. I taste the potential for sure, but they're incredibly potent. 

[Hammer Smokin']

oh love the shade of those E2 wrappers!!! 

[Chibearsv]

Small sample size for me as well but I don’t find much difference except in the construction. The El Laguito cigars have been perfectly constructed. Razor sharp burn and tightly packed with a solid ash. The others can get a little wonky and the ash gets flakey. Flavors have been consistently smooth for both versions for me. 

[rcarlson]

1 hour ago, Chibearsv said:

Small sample size for me as well but I don’t find much difference except in the construction. The El Laguito cigars have been perfectly constructed. Razor sharp burn and tightly packed with a solid ash. The others can get a little wonky and the ash gets flakey. Flavors have been consistently smooth for both versions for me. 

Same experience here.  

[Tstew75]

I find Laguito examples to be a firmer blend than say an MSU E2. I've found this true with PSD4s & Edmundos as well. All my experience comes from 17-19 vintages.

RE: Construction, Laguito consistently has the highest quality wrappers, and I cant ever remember having tight draws, etc from those codes.  I really do think they reserve some of the best leaf for El Laguito.

[Tstew75]

21 hours ago, Lrabold89 said:

No difference whatsoever ...difference would be from box to box irrespective of box code

You're saying factory doesn't matter? Are you sure?? I have to say I disagree with you completely, at least with a handful of examples.

21 hours ago, Lrabold89 said:

What do you mean by firmer blend?

It's rather hard to describe, but my experience has routinely shown that UAO blends seem less giving early on (more closed down in wine speak) than MSU or otherwise. Eddies show less overt Cocoa & more firm character. E2/D4s, a bit less sourdough than normal...more coiled, mineral-driven power. This could be all in my head, but after the past few years of smoking I don't tend to think so.  I'm not saying they're better (well...in the case of Cohiba, El Laguito is def on a diff level), but yea. 

[Monterey]

Thoughts of the blind tasting competitions comes to mind here.  Few can even guess the right cigar, but we are supposed to believe people can "taste" the factory!  I have my doubts.  I guess the next blind taste competition here should require people to name the cigar and factory

[SCgarman]

How do these compare in blend to a D4? Never tried 'em!

[PuroDiario]

To make an analogy, and risking getting some heat, for the most part I think factory codes are like looking at the numbers board by the roulette in a Casino...it does not change the odds of the game whatsoever no matter how much you look at it...more like you had one that you liked, you looked at the code and saw it was Laguito and said aha! Or you first looked at the code and were pre-conditioned to like it after seeing the code.

I would bet if you smoke for about a year two E2s/day blindly of different years one cigar per factory code and you were asked to chose what you are smoking (Laguito vs No Laguito) you would end up with a binomial distribution...no different than tossing a coin for enough times (maybe we need you to smoke 4 a day instead of 2)...

[Drguano]

What is the box code for El Laguito?

[chuckpnoy]

18 minutes ago, Drguano said:

What is the box code for El Laguito?

MAR

[Fugu]

Fun thing is - with MSU being their mother factory.... what now, prefer to follow the mother-factory myth? Or prefer to follow the EL-superiority myth? ?

[Tstew75]

3 hours ago, Fugu said:

Fun thing is - with MSU being their mother factory.... what now, prefer to follow the mother-factory myth? Or prefer to follow the EL-superiority myth? ?

For sure...MSU/UAO examples are certainly top of the damn E2 food chain. 

Fugu, have you ever noticed a difference in UAO sticks as opposed to other mother factories (|E2 or otherwise)?

18 hours ago, Lrabold89 said:

i dont think it makes much of a difference ...theres so much variance between boxes, stick to stick, factory codes, month to month, box to box..its all a crapshoot....you show me 25 beautiful UAO boxes, I show you 25 poop boxes....same for LGR or GEM for that matter....all crap shoot........i do think you make great observations about the boxes you have seen/smoked from though....great descriptions and very perceptive !!

That's cool. I just firmly believe that some mother factories roll better verisons of certain sticks, whether that be from using higher quality leaf, better rollers, etc. One great example is Hoyo Epi 1/2s rolled at LGR (home factory) vs. elsewhere. I always see a big quality jump from the former. Any Cohiba from EL is just better in my experience- I've heard it said many times that UAO Cohiba leaf undergoes an extra (3rd or 4th?) fermentation (not sure if this is true or not). UAO wrappers are almost always brilliant. Why is that?? Tradition & pride.

El Laguito is aweosmely mysterious, and I'm a damn fanboy. Guilty.

[BeerPimp]

7 hours ago, chuckpnoy said:

MAR

Saw someone post a box of Behike 52's with MAR MAR.   I was like what the heck.   Didn't know the El Laguito code is MAR now.

[Fugu]

17 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

Fugu, have you ever noticed a difference in UAO sticks as opposed to other mother factories (|E2 or otherwise)?

Ok, let me expose myself as a non-believer. Can’t speak for the E2, as this is not a cigar I smoke a lot, but as someone who selects the odd box himself (when buying from B&M) I came to the conclusion that for instance in the Siglo series, I have often been preferring La Corona or even other, to me unbeknown codes over EL. Not just once have I come across some truly horrific looking box of Sig 4 and Sig 3 adorned with the so much desired EL codes on the bottom. Even crooked bunching, underfilled up to being literally plugged. (and that coming from someone who is tolerant of firm draws...).

Also, boxes of UAO and MOL Lanceros coming to mind, where there wasn’t much of a difference to me. If at all, with the MOLs having been the nicer looking, better made, richer expression of the cigar, even if just by a touch. (to this day I don’t know what MOL was, but - they did a tremendous job... also in Monte)

Therefore, I agree with the notion that a true factory effect is very hard, if not impossible, to discern, unless you were able to sample from a vast variety of boxes over the years, and from the same production periods in parallel. And even then, sure, blends will inevitably vary in one or the other direction. But such differences aren’t in any way intended and/or systematic. (speaking of ‘systematic’ and Tabacuba, two worlds colliding...? )

“Consistent difference”? - Nope.

Differences, yes. Consistently discernible and consistently attributable to a certain factory - no. There may be good runs and there may be poor runs.

To me - and before anybody gets too excited, I am speaking just for my personal experience here - superior EL quality, or to be more precise, its general superiority is a myth. At least when compared to other top factories such as LC or FPG, and even some VC factory out there (while tbp there isn’t even a Partagas-“factory”, strictly, after closing of the old location). Also, factory status may change over time, depending on the management, and even the organisation of different production lines (vitolas) and teams within a factory.

El Laguito is as much marketing as is Cohiba. Make of that what you will.

There’s good boxes and there’s poor boxes. I go by that.

[Tstew75]

2 hours ago, Fugu said:

Ok, let me expose myself as a non-believer. Can’t speak for the E2, as this is not a cigar I smoke a lot, but as someone who selects the odd box himself (when buying from B&M) I came to the conclusion that for instance in the Siglo series, I have often been preferring La Corona or even other, to me unbeknown codes over EL. Not just once have I come across some truly horrific looking box of Sig 4 and Sig 3 adorned with the so much desired EL codes on the bottom. Even crooked bunching, underfilled up to being literally plugged. (and that coming from someone who is tolerant of firm draws...).

Also, boxes of UAO and MOL Lanceros coming to mind, where there wasn’t much of a difference to me. If at all, with the MOLs having been the nicer looking, better made, richer expression of the cigar, even if just by a touch. (to this day I don’t know what MOL was, but - they did a tremendous job... also in Monte)

Therefore, I agree with the notion that a true factory effect is very hard, if not impossible, to discern, unless you were able to sample from a vast variety of boxes over the years, and from the same production periods in parallel. And even then, sure, blends will inevitably vary in one or the other direction. But such differences aren’t in any way intended and/or systematic. (speaking of ‘systematic’ and Tabacuba, two worlds colliding...? )

“Consistent difference”? - Nope.

Differences, yes. Consistently discernible and consistently attributable to a certain factory - no. There may be good runs and there may be poor runs.

To me - and before anybody gets too excited, I am speaking just for my personal experience here - superior EL quality, or to be more precise, its general superiority is a myth. At least when compared to other top factories such as LC or FPG, and even some VC factory out there (while tbp there isn’t even a Partagas-“factory”, strictly, after closing of the old location). Also, factory status may change over time, depending on the management, and even the organisation of different production lines (vitolas) and teams within a factory.

El Laguito is as much marketing as is Cohiba. Make of that what you will.

There’s good boxes and there’s poor boxes. I go by that.

 

Interesting to hear a complete opposite view...in fact you're saying EL Cohiba examples might be inferior which is pretty shocking & not my experience at all. I've been pretty lucky to open lots of Cohiba boxes over the past 3 years & I'd choose a UAO box over others 98% of the time, simply based on wrappers & construction. Cuban cigars are mystifying lol.

RE: Siglo...I'm not sure they rolled any 3/4/5 with the UAO code. I've only seen 1/2/6/Medio. I could be wrong tho.

I hope lots of people chime in on this subject! Factory is fascinating in Cuba.

[Fugu]

6 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

RE: Siglo...I'm not sure they rolled any 3/4/5 with the UAO code.

Yes, haven’t seen those either. As the three formats were generally scarce during that period.

[Fugu]

7 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

Interesting to hear a complete opposite view...in fact you're saying EL Cohiba examples might be inferior which is pretty shocking & not my experience at all. I've been pretty lucky to open lots of Cohiba boxes over the past 3 years & I'd choose a UAO box over others 98% of the time, simply based on wrappers & construction. Cuban cigars are mystifying lol.

 

N.B. As coincidence would have it, this thread just popped up again. Perhaps of interest:

 

[Tstew75]

On 12/6/2020 at 4:00 PM, Fugu said:

 

N.B. As coincidence would have it, this thread just popped up again. Perhaps of interest:

 

Interesting for sure. MOL/UEB/EOS were big surprises. Kind of nice to see 3 mother factories in the Top 6, reinforcing their enduring quality. 

The conundrum comes when those provincial codes changed & you're flying blind again. Not so with EL, LC, PS.

[Hoepssa]

 

My MOL boxes are all stellar, but I don't know where are they from.

E2 before 2018 were not too strong, nor too smooth for me, but

you can't smoke too fast. Current E2 is really my go-to Partagas cigars, I love the 'tougher' taste from non Laguito boxes before, considering

my love for the current blend, I found much 'smoothness' when it's from el Laguito.
 

[scap99]

The AMO box I had from 2015 was some of the best cigars I've had 

[Tstew75]

Waiting on  @El Presidente to chime in ?

 

[westg]

17 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

Waiting on  @El Presidente to chime in ?

 

Yep come on Rob. I had this discussion yesterday  with some people . Didn't go well for me . Tell us ?

[PuffDaddie]

I have only tried the E2S from El Laguito and they were great.