Covid Vaccine. Your plans?

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, RedLantern said:

I think "total scam" is a bit hyperbolic, no?

No.  I look at all the yachts in the harbor down the street from my house.  Few if any are owned by academics.  Same for the fancy cars driving around.  They're mostly in construction, real estate, etc...  Not so many historians or philosophers.

Vocational and professional education (as reflected in your chart) is much wiser course for most.

Not to mention the cost of a degree and everything they teach is free online if you want to learn it.  Wasn't the case before the internet.

[RedLantern]

So it’s yacht or bust eh? Vocational and professional are not the same thing, FYI. Also important to point out that earning an academic degree doesn’t make you an “academic” as a professional.
 

Your anecdotes don’t dispute the data, the most reliable way to a comfortable life is through education. For many that education includes college. 

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, RedLantern said:

Your anecdotes don’t dispute the data, the most reliable way to a comfortable life is through education. For many that education includes college. 

What specifically taught in college cannot be learned on your own for free or near free online?  If you want to have your essays reviewed by a professor or TA, that can be done for very little per essay. 

[InCheTasteWeTrust]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

What specifically taught in college cannot be learned on your own for free or near free online?  If you want to have your essays reviewed by a professor or TA, that can be done for very little per essay. 

College degrees are important only because some corporations only hire people who have them. College is definitely overrated, but not useless. 

[El Presidente]

8 minutes ago, InCheTasteWeTrust said:

College degrees are important only because some corporations only hire people who have them. College is definitely overrated, but not useless. 

I like hiring people with College/Universiy degrees. It can be in any field.

It proves that the person can actually finish something they start 

[InCheTasteWeTrust]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

I like hiring people with College/Universiy degrees. It can be in any field.

It proves that the person can actually finish something they start 

I'm not against a college degree because I couldn't get it. I have a master in mathematics ( Algebraic topology, one of the most avoided field by students) and got it without attending classes. I only went to pass the tests. So, it's possible to have success only by learning from home, and it's possible to live a successful life without being at college. I have friends leading a nice life and they didn't have to go to college. 

[El Presidente]

Just now, InCheTasteWeTrust said:

I have friends leading a nice life and they didn't have to go to college. 

Don't get me wrong. The two wealthiest mates I know have never been to uni/college. They are naturally driven and quite exceptional.  A degree on  a campus would feel like a 4 year prison sentence. A degree at home would feel like a massive waste of time. Again, they are exceptional. 

23 and looking for a job with us. it is a nice signpost (nothing more) that you have commitment to complete. It doesn't mean that you are good. 

 

 

[dominattorney]

5 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Don't get me wrong. The two wealthiest mates I know have never been to uni/college. They are naturally driven and quite exceptional.  A degree on  a campus would feel like a 4 year prison sentence. A degree at home would feel like a massive waste of time. Again, they are exceptional. 

23 and looking for a job with us. it is a nice signpost (nothing more) that you have commitment to complete. It doesn't mean that you are good. 

 

 

I have a degree. What do you pay? How many boxes/hour?

[InCheTasteWeTrust]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

Don't get me wrong. The two wealthiest mates I know have never been to uni/college. They are naturally driven and quite exceptional.  A degree on  a campus would feel like a 4 year prison sentence. A degree at home would feel like a massive waste of time. Again, they are exceptional. 

23 and looking for a job with us. it is a nice signpost (nothing more) that you have commitment to complete. It doesn't mean that you are good. 

 

 

Would you hire a non vaxx who can name a few vitolas? 

[BettyHumpder]

18 hours ago, griller said:

Honest question about boosters...

I'm a 51 yr old male, healthy (no underlying health conditions outside of liking beer & grilled animal protein), got J&J shot end of March '21. Considering a booster, should I get another J&J or Pfizer? Or, not do anything for the near term?

Feel great now, but don't need a possible problem down the road.

Thanks!

@griller here's a link to the FDA's authorization of boosters on Oct 21. They basically say mixing and matching is okay. I'd do a quick telemedicine call with my doctor to see what he says, personally. I plan to get a booster when they open up this week. Two shots of Moderna the first time around and I'll take whatever they give me now for my booster.

 

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-takes-additional-actions-use-booster-dose-covid-19-vaccines

[RedLantern]

3 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

What specifically taught in college cannot be learned on your own for free or near free online?  If you want to have your essays reviewed by a professor or TA, that can be done for very little per essay. 

We can’t all be Will Hunting. You’ve been watching too many movies. Sure, for the exceptional they can can learn at a high level independently. For most of us lesser beings, learning is a social behavior that requires mentoring, modeling, and guided practice. Much in the same way trade apprenticeship works.

[Chibearsv]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I like hiring people with College/Universiy degrees. It can be in any field.

It proves that the person can actually finish something they start 

Agree here.  Not to just finish something quickly but take time to see a 4 year project through to the end.  The schooling isn't such a big deal in my opinion but getting through the schooling is.  I know a LOT of people that think getting the ball to the 20 yard line is enough, I want to employ the ones that aren't satisfied until they punch it over the goal line.

[BrightonCorgi]

3 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Agree here.  Not to just finish something quickly but take time to see a 4 year project through to the end.  The schooling isn't such a big deal in my opinion but getting through the schooling is.  I know a LOT of people that think getting the ball to the 20 yard line is enough, I want to employ the ones that aren't satisfied until they punch it over the goal line.

The degree shows dedication and execution to completion; no doubt.  As does many accomplishments and feats.  A college degree is "hand shake" in essence for the professional world.  Caste system if you will.  1st Caste is Ivy League degrees and you get the idea.

[porkchop]

 

[Fosgate]

22 hours ago, RedLantern said:

We can’t all be Will Hunting. You’ve been watching too many movies. Sure, for the exceptional they can can learn at a high level independently. For most of us lesser beings, learning is a social behavior that requires mentoring, modeling, and guided practice. Much in the same way trade apprenticeship works.

Totally agree. My cousin has a machine shop that's built parts for Buell, Titan Rocket, B1 Bomber etc. He's never one to go off how colleges and trades schools are not teaching kids crap for machining anymore. He'll get a new guy and they expect a multi million dollar CNC machine to run. Like any business owner is going to let a fresh out of school kid run that critical piece of the business. Can they run old school Mills and lathes? nope! Says he'd rather take a local kid in high school that starts out pushing a broom because it's easier to teach than unteach bad habits and the expectations of those coming out of college/trade without an apprentice experience under their belt. 

A separate friend running an IT department says the same but adds that College is a joke for their business. By the time college teaches something in IT that thing is already obsolete in their business. He prefers hiring some self taught kid out of high school, have them work something basic while sending them to conferences and industry training rather than waste company money trying to deal with some college kid swimming in debt, or paying for some BS college degree while they work, wanting more money and isn't any more of an asset that that new high school kid. 

It's becoming more and more like that across the board that industry is moving faster than college can teach. 

 

Well my company made it official. Despite the Courts putting a halt to the Vax Mandate being implemented by Osha. Company wants to remain in compliance with the proposed mandate if the court reverses itself. So we have until the Dec 3rd to provide our vax records or we have to mask up at all my companies offices. 

Despite the fact that I took both Moderna Pokes within the last 6 months and currently quarantined with Covid. My company has record of my positive test from last week (which I volunteered the document and they said they could not ask for it). Screw it, I'm not providing further medical records to them. Go ahead and make me mask up to go to an office I never visit. 

[RedLantern]

25 minutes ago, clint said:

I work in the public school system and it seems that the most important topics today are CRT, Colonialism, and Sexual Politics.  I'm guessing it only continues into post secondary.  Don't you think that's worth going into massive amounts of debt for?

In what capacity do you work in the public school system?

[Ken Gargett]

i presume i am missing something here. as a generalisation, sure, you learn a great deal when you are finally on the job, so to speak, but is the suggestion here that those wishing to be lawyers, accountants, scientists, doctors et al, don't really need to go to college, to finish courses, get degrees etc etc? surely this is not what is being said? 

i know i'd be very keen to have a surgeon who learnt from a couple of books at home chopping me up!

and have bad movies taught us nothing about having incompetent lawyers acting for anyone? or do people actually think 'suits' is a documentary?

[PigFish]

How many of these subjects are worth sacrificing a dollar or four years of your life for???

There will be a quiz later!

-the Pig

Degree Programs & Majors | UCLA.pdf

[Fuzz]

On 11/19/2021 at 7:42 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

What specifically taught in college cannot be learned on your own for free or near free online?  If you want to have your essays reviewed by a professor or TA, that can be done for very little per essay. 

Dr Nick Riviera learned open heart surgery on his own....

[InCheTasteWeTrust]

11 hours ago, PigFish said:

How many of these subjects are worth sacrificing a dollar or four years of your life for???

There will be a quiz later!

-the Pig

Degree Programs & Majors | UCLA.pdf 567.57 kB · 4 downloads

Half of the programs are meant to send their students right into unemployement. No wonder the twitter warriors, the march rioters for absolutely no reason are getting bigger by the day.

 

[BrightonCorgi]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:56 AM, clint said:

I work in the public school system and it seems that the most important topics today are CRT, Colonialism, and Sexual Politics.  I'm guessing it only continues into post secondary.  Don't you think that's worth going into massive amounts of debt for?

For a near lifetime of  student debt; for sure it is.  I want my Starbuck's Barrista to live in servitude of indoctrination for life.

 

23 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i presume i am missing something here. as a generalisation, sure, you learn a great deal when you are finally on the job, so to speak, but is the suggestion here that those wishing to be lawyers, accountants, scientists, doctors et al, don't really need to go to college, to finish courses, get degrees etc etc? surely this is not what is being said?

No, that is not what is being said.  Most of those professions, curriculum and certification are mandates.  College is meant for those truly aspiring for advanced education or specific vocations.

 

12 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Dr Nick Riviera learned open heart surgery on his own....

You cannot be a doctor without specific accreditation or schooling.  You're just trying to be fresh.

[PigFish]

... a minor in digital humanities...

WTF is that??? A college minor in how to make memes?

[Fosgate]

I love listening to people put a lot of emphasis in college. I've got a coworker that went to law college, never took the bar and does the same job as me and looks at people without degrees as "Uneducated, morons, stupid" etc. Overall she's pretty closed minded, lacks critical thinking and a bit of a narcissist. Robert Kyosaki's book Rich Dad, Poor Dad is a book I wish I would have read when it first came out in 1997. The story he shares in there brings so much truth to it. I grew up in a small town with a graduating high school class of 25. A very close friend of mine dropped out when he was 16 much to the disdain of his parents, a father that was head air traffic controller, pilot and hobby auto builder, a mother who owned a fitness center. When he was 15 he worked a summer job in construction at a nearby paving company. And growing up working on a neighbors farm put him in control to run a heavy loader when the operator quit. At age 15 being in an important crew position that paid as much as many adults was like a drug. He came back and struggled with school as he didn't see the point taking advanced college classes. Operating heavy machinery is what he wanted to do. With some of the hazing he got from other adolescence, teachers etc for having this thought took it's toll and his parents finally caved. The paving company welcomed him with open arms in one condition, he at least get his GED. He knocked that out in no time and went to work full time. I lost contact over the years and he and his brother and I always maintained a bit of contact now and then. Last I saw him was about 5 years ago, he is now 3rd in charge of that now large paving company (one of the largest in the state). He holds down a nice house, family and shop full of expensive toys. Guy makes more than my graduating high school class combined present wages. All from a drop out. 

He is not unique in that manor. I stumble across people all the time that had no higher education, made crappy employees, but were/are great entrepreneurs that had the sight for opportunity and grab hold of it and enough sense to surround themselves with the right people. Another that comes to mind that I thought hilarious was a plumber. Plumbers are a shortage in my area and one I met made bank. I met him while working insurance property claims and settled a dispute he had for some hail damage with my company. I went to the house and it was easily a beautiful $1.5m mountain home (Avg new construction house is maybe $300k here). We got along really well as I see all the expensive toys in the garage and the house on a gorgeous wooded property.  I look at the house, at him, at the house, at him as I said, "A plumber? Really?" and he laughs, "I swear to god!" he laughs. "But, you don't have a pickup that looks like it's been driven until the wheels fell off and put back on 4 or 5 times, dirty coveralls or grubby jeans sporting the infamous plumbers crack." was the way the conversation went and he proceeded to tell me he works when he wants, the jobs he wants, how much the game has changed since the 70's & 80's with so many people not even owning tools let alone have basic knowledge to do any home plumbing repairs etc. He never went to college and worked for a plumber out of high school and when the guy retired he was in a position to purchase the company. (similar to a second plumbing supply owner I met and just sold the business and retired himself)

Fast forward about 6 months and I'm in a house with a home owner that was a real peach. I'm checking out water damage trying to find the source and the homeowner called a plumber and the one who shows up is my new found plumber friend. We could not find it for the life of us but we suspected it was behind a wall that the home owner didn't want to open up and the plumber doesn't pack an infrared camera (Water remediation companies in the area do). So while we are waiting for the homeowner to make another call and they just see the bill going up and not knowing if insurance will cover it etc. The homeowner just started making comments about "Uneducated trades" people not being intelligent and was being king of a dick trying to flaunt how much better off they are than us and we don't know anything. Of course his College degree in optometry hung in the room we were talking in his maybe $500k house. Both the plumber and I look at each other, the plaque with the degree, and back at each other. The plumber just says, "F&^k this, I don't need this job or have to take your sh#t!" turned and walked out getting into his van and drove off. The homeowner was just kind of slack jawed. I simply told him that he just pissed off someone that lives in a house worth 3 times as much as the one were standing in and makes more than me and him combined. With that I simply told him have the remediation company give me a call once they find the source and good luck finding another plumber. I never did hear back from them. 

Point is I reflect and could never understand when I was a kid my grandparents etc told me to find something I really like to do and just stick with it. Higher learning is not necessary "Better" learning or make someone more success or smarter. I had an uncle that could multiply two 7+ digit figures in his head and was a management head in some big mine with nothing more than a high school education. Mine was working fine but some higher up decided they should have some ivy league guy come and replace my uncle. 2 years later the mine closed & Sold due to mismanagement. Meanwhile my uncle moved on to become the biggest bookie in Denver making more than any doctor in that city. He was a numbers guy and loved working with numbers. 

On the opposite side, I have met several people that did capitalize well with their college degrees and several who have not. All depends on the persons ambition and critical thinking skills in the end. Degree might buy a ticket to the tryouts, but will not help you if your a dud in ambition. I have a BS degrees in Business and Public Health and looking back I should have just done the business degree. 

College, to me, trains people to work for others. Not everyone is meant to be a fine employee but make great entrepreneurs where they can express their creativity. I occasionally look at how my ex's daughter is doing. A lot of emphasis was placed on her by her mother on the importance of a degree as she was pressured constantly taking college level classes in high school and pursued an art degree. (she is one heck of an artist). She lacked social skills she could have developed when she was in high school by just being a kid. Of all things though, art degree, worthless. She graduated a couple years ago and moved to Florida with he boyfriend. Currently she works only part time for Sherwin Williams matching paint combinations for homes. I guarantee it will be a long time before that degree is paid for. I think that is part of the problem we see so much emphasis on people pursuing worthless degrees that will never pay for themselves. Art seems to be pushed so hard in high school and being special and creative. Then you send them off to college, get them in debt and then a low paying job that doesn't pay both the monthly basics let alone a student loan and/or they work for a company that does not allow the expression of creativity and just want the job done the way they say. 

In my humble opinion there are four categories that wander into each other should be presented to kids. College, Trade, Work for someone else, work for yourself. I have yet to meet a high school guidance counselor preach anything more than go to college or trade and work for someone else. 

[BrightonCorgi]

In US high schools, guidance councilors promote "it's either college or bread line".  There are no other options.

[Foulhook]

21 hours ago, Fosgate said:

I love listening to people put a lot of emphasis in college. I've got a coworker that went to law college, never took the bar and does the same job as me and looks at people without degrees as "Uneducated, morons, stupid" etc. Overall she's pretty closed minded, lacks critical thinking and a bit of a narcissist. Robert Kyosaki's book Rich Dad, Poor Dad is a book I wish I would have read when it first came out in 1997. The story he shares in there brings so much truth to it. I grew up in a small town with a graduating high school class of 25. A very close friend of mine dropped out when he was 16 much to the disdain of his parents, a father that was head air traffic controller, pilot and hobby auto builder, a mother who owned a fitness center. When he was 15 he worked a summer job in construction at a nearby paving company. And growing up working on a neighbors farm put him in control to run a heavy loader when the operator quit. At age 15 being in an important crew position that paid as much as many adults was like a drug. He came back and struggled with school as he didn't see the point taking advanced college classes. Operating heavy machinery is what he wanted to do. With some of the hazing he got from other adolescence, teachers etc for having this thought took it's toll and his parents finally caved. The paving company welcomed him with open arms in one condition, he at least get his GED. He knocked that out in no time and went to work full time. I lost contact over the years and he and his brother and I always maintained a bit of contact now and then. Last I saw him was about 5 years ago, he is now 3rd in charge of that now large paving company (one of the largest in the state). He holds down a nice house, family and shop full of expensive toys. Guy makes more than my graduating high school class combined present wages. All from a drop out. 

He is not unique in that manor. I stumble across people all the time that had no higher education, made crappy employees, but were/are great entrepreneurs that had the sight for opportunity and grab hold of it and enough sense to surround themselves with the right people. Another that comes to mind that I thought hilarious was a plumber. Plumbers are a shortage in my area and one I met made bank. I met him while working insurance property claims and settled a dispute he had for some hail damage with my company. I went to the house and it was easily a beautiful $1.5m mountain home (Avg new construction house is maybe $300k here). We got along really well as I see all the expensive toys in the garage and the house on a gorgeous wooded property.  I look at the house, at him, at the house, at him as I said, "A plumber? Really?" and he laughs, "I swear to god!" he laughs. "But, you don't have a pickup that looks like it's been driven until the wheels fell off and put back on 4 or 5 times, dirty coveralls or grubby jeans sporting the infamous plumbers crack." was the way the conversation went and he proceeded to tell me he works when he wants, the jobs he wants, how much the game has changed since the 70's & 80's with so many people not even owning tools let alone have basic knowledge to do any home plumbing repairs etc. He never went to college and worked for a plumber out of high school and when the guy retired he was in a position to purchase the company. (similar to a second plumbing supply owner I met and just sold the business and retired himself)

Fast forward about 6 months and I'm in a house with a home owner that was a real peach. I'm checking out water damage trying to find the source and the homeowner called a plumber and the one who shows up is my new found plumber friend. We could not find it for the life of us but we suspected it was behind a wall that the home owner didn't want to open up and the plumber doesn't pack an infrared camera (Water remediation companies in the area do). So while we are waiting for the homeowner to make another call and they just see the bill going up and not knowing if insurance will cover it etc. The homeowner just started making comments about "Uneducated trades" people not being intelligent and was being king of a dick trying to flaunt how much better off they are than us and we don't know anything. Of course his College degree in optometry hung in the room we were talking in his maybe $500k house. Both the plumber and I look at each other, the plaque with the degree, and back at each other. The plumber just says, "F&^k this, I don't need this job or have to take your sh#t!" turned and walked out getting into his van and drove off. The homeowner was just kind of slack jawed. I simply told him that he just pissed off someone that lives in a house worth 3 times as much as the one were standing in and makes more than me and him combined. With that I simply told him have the remediation company give me a call once they find the source and good luck finding another plumber. I never did hear back from them. 

Point is I reflect and could never understand when I was a kid my grandparents etc told me to find something I really like to do and just stick with it. Higher learning is not necessary "Better" learning or make someone more success or smarter. I had an uncle that could multiply two 7+ digit figures in his head and was a management head in some big mine with nothing more than a high school education. Mine was working fine but some higher up decided they should have some ivy league guy come and replace my uncle. 2 years later the mine closed & Sold due to mismanagement. Meanwhile my uncle moved on to become the biggest bookie in Denver making more than any doctor in that city. He was a numbers guy and loved working with numbers. 

On the opposite side, I have met several people that did capitalize well with their college degrees and several who have not. All depends on the persons ambition and critical thinking skills in the end. Degree might buy a ticket to the tryouts, but will not help you if your a dud in ambition. I have a BS degrees in Business and Public Health and looking back I should have just done the business degree. 

College, to me, trains people to work for others. Not everyone is meant to be a fine employee but make great entrepreneurs where they can express their creativity. I occasionally look at how my ex's daughter is doing. A lot of emphasis was placed on her by her mother on the importance of a degree as she was pressured constantly taking college level classes in high school and pursued an art degree. (she is one heck of an artist). She lacked social skills she could have developed when she was in high school by just being a kid. Of all things though, art degree, worthless. She graduated a couple years ago and moved to Florida with he boyfriend. Currently she works only part time for Sherwin Williams matching paint combinations for homes. I guarantee it will be a long time before that degree is paid for. I think that is part of the problem we see so much emphasis on people pursuing worthless degrees that will never pay for themselves. Art seems to be pushed so hard in high school and being special and creative. Then you send them off to college, get them in debt and then a low paying job that doesn't pay both the monthly basics let alone a student loan and/or they work for a company that does not allow the expression of creativity and just want the job done the way they say. 

In my humble opinion there are four categories that wander into each other should be presented to kids. College, Trade, Work for someone else, work for yourself. I have yet to meet a high school guidance counselor preach anything more than go to college or trade and work for someone else. 

This post is spot on. I never went to college and I own three businesses. I am in the process of selling the smaller ones for 1.8 million. Im 49 years old. The other two make more than that annually.

Pick something you love and figure out a way to monetize it. Do not be afraid of hard work. Do what you promised people you’re going to do, when you promise you will do it, don’t ever lie to anyone and you will be successful.

One of my businesses is dealing in high end offshore fishing boats. I have yet to see a buyer on that side that’s employed by someone else. Most are in the trades and run their own show or created their own business where they saw something missing .. 

college means zero anymore. Not sure it ever meant much to begin with. And yes college teaches you how to be an employee. for 30+ years society has told everyone the most expensive way was the only way. It was all a big lie. Unfortunately many believed it and continue to believe it.