Cigar Aging

[Markspring1978]

2 hours ago, rcarlson said:

I'm in the "aging is overrated" camp, with one exception: Cohiba.  I have found that uniformly 5-10 on Cohiba seem to smoke better.  Although I agree with the venerable maxim that age doesn't turn a turd into a gem, I'm not convinced the discussion of age amounts to much.         

As stated earlier, it seems that product out of Cuba today doesn’t have the same aging characteristics that the leaf and vitolas of old. But man, a Punch Super Selection 1, or a Bolivar Coronas Extra are SO much different with age.

That being said, I think most would agree that a PLPC or a Party 898 are a completely different cigar after 5 years. 

[Fosgate]

I think aging is often a crap shoot. There are so many variables to consider that will have an effect on the final product. I saw an example of wine and as a brewer I'll put in my two cents. 

Consistency with a consumable biologically active product is always a challenge. Doesn't matter if it's small scale or large scale production. Large scale often helps if you can combine the final product in a final batch but not always. I believe it was Karlsberg Brew moved out of their brewery into a new brewery, used all the same recipes and followed their strict brewing guidelines and accounted for the mineral differences in the water from the old brewery to the new brewery, but for whatever purpose could not replicate the exact product they were known for. They eventually determined it to come down to different water source, but the product changed and it was noticed. 

Another factor to consider is floaties in the air. Those little spores and naturally occurring yeast is what gives Framboise Strawberry Lambiic its little alcohol making monsters only available naturally in the Pajottenland region of Belgium SW of Brussels. Move that brewery to any other region on the planet and it would be safe to say the final product would not be the same. Also they sit in fermentation for up to two years before bottling. Alot can go wrong while they are sitting in those fermenters and I'm certain they have had failures to learn from. 

I absolutely agree with how flavors change in a cigar similarly to these differences just as we see differences by the box code of where a cigar is made. We hope that history is a good guide to the end result but it is never a guarantee. I think of how sterile of an environment I try to maintain every step of the process once I pasteurize and control only what I want living in my beer. Then I see a video of the production process of how a cigar is made (which is never sterilized) wondering how much human sweat got onto a leaf (know what touching a petri dish and sticking it in the closet a few days), What about the woman selecting tobacco and placing it on her leg, how much perfume is she wearing on the clothing coning in contact with the leaves, What floaties is there in the air at each production site at any given day etc. 

Time undoubtedly has an effect of flavor. Just like the 3 year old 145ABV Russian Imperial Stout I made could be used to clean car parts the first few weeks of life, Barely drinkable after a year at year two something really changed in it chemically that brought out the harshness and it was creamy sweet and super smooth. Year three was the doozy because out of nowhere a distinct Cherry flavor showed up. Again a chemical change attributed to time. One can't get enough but that ABV assures that you do. Can I replicate it? I would like to but truthfully I doubt it, but I have confidence that I could come close based on my experience and knowledge. 

Question is will the payoff be worth the investment of time. For a Russian imperial stout that was undrinkable the first year, it's necessary just to make it drinkable. If you want that extra hint of cherry though it's another year. A year which few commercial brewers have the time or space commitment when they have a perfectly marketable product. Now, will it get better yet? Nope. I know from experience of others that I cannot hope for anything more so it would be a waste to hold it longer.

Sort of the point I was trying to make with a 2013 Partagas D4 that I reviewed yesterday. It was a really good cigar, but it was a really good cigar at 2-5 years of age. Was it worth aging that long? I don't think so when on can figure that another cigar could benefit from the additional time where that box of D4's is taking up space. So when you look at Cuban cigars they are far from being an exact science. You can look at historical information, box codes, a pile of other data, others experience, bring them home and take care of them perfectly for years but sometimes it just boils down to the roll of a dice for that final decision of selection and hope for the best. 

 

[Yellot00tr]

I remember in 2010-2012 and on that some people said aging those years productions was going to be useless. They kind of implied the same thing about older stock being much better. I’ve had a bunch of stuff from those years, and they’ve aged fantastically. Doesn’t matter what it’s been. Cohiba especially has aged well, but so have Trinis, HUs, and just about everything else. Only thing I didn’t love was the RA. Just not a fan.

[Puros Y Vino]

Everything about cigar aging seems to be based on historical and observational evidence.  There are too many factors involved to really get a good idea of what one needs to do with a particular cigar. With that said. There are decades of experience here and on other websites about what seems to work and what seems to happen when it comes to aging cigars.

Whatever advice you take, it will be your palate determining what works for any particular cigar. And that determination will require you to smoke from the boxes periodically, keeping notes and noticing any particular changes in body, tasting notes, etc.

FWIW. Here's my approach. 

I determine aging potential of a particular cigar by making note of its' body. (mild/medium/bold).  How "strong" the cigar feels in terms of nicotine content.  And if there is any "tannic" qualities.  Similar to the tannins found in red wine.  It's a taste akin to a green pepper and or grape skin.  But on the dry side.  To my palate, that tells me it's "young" and needs to smooth out.

So, anything that leans towards being bold, strong and tannic.  Might be something you sock away for a long time (how long depend on your wants). 

Anything in the medium range, less so. And anything on the light side, might not have the legs to sit too long.

With that said, I have personally noticed that there are outliers. For instance.  I have two cabinets of HU Mag 50 from 2009.  When fresh, I found them medium bodied and without any harshness.  A few years back I smoked a few more and they surprised me.  They tasted stronger and were more on the medium/bold bodied side.  No tannins though.  Very smooth, rich smoke throughout. 

Another example.  Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos.  When I first smoked them fresh back in 2009/10.  They were Full bodied. STRONG. Very flavourful with very little tannic notes.  So strong in fact that when I smoked them, it felt like my brain was swimming in my skull.  FWIW,I also get that feeling from young RyJ Cazadores, young Esplendidos and fresh Monte 520's (2012 EL).  As I smoke them over the past 10 years, that punch to the brain strength is all but gone, the cigar has smoothened out and the flavours matured.  I will say the same about the La Escepcion Selectos Finos.  IMO probably one of the best blends I've ever smoked since I started smoking in 2009. 

On the "lighter side".  I found that some LGC's really do well with time. Even though they don't seem to indicate long term aging potential when fresh.  LGC2 and 4 for instance. 

If you want to take a general approach to aging. There are tons of posts here and abroad about which Marcas cigars are good sooner that later.

You can also experiment by aging two similar boxes by storing them in the same humidor conditions, but with one difference.  Wrap one box in Saran Wrap or glassine and leave the other as is. Sample 1 from each box every 6 to 12 months and make note of any differences.  Depending on what you prefer from each tasting, that will be your personal aging strategy.

[CigarZen]

To my palate, as a general rule, cigars get better with age.  Age allows flavors to shine through without the edge or tannins that mask the flavor.

PSD4s are the expectation.  Those are better young.  Aged PSD4s seem to get floral notes I would rather not see in a Partagas. I prefer the earthy peppery power in this stick.

[sw15825]

On 1/15/2021 at 8:04 PM, CigarZen said:

I agree that mild cigars aren’t necessarily poor aging candidates.  In particular HU2s were infamously mild when young and in my experience gained both flavor and power with age.  Boxes I have start getting good, to my palate, at about 8 years.   01s that were flat are smooth and flavorful now, even in the opinion of buddies that love punchy new cigars.
 

To put some context to the topic of whether the 18/19s will age well because they are smoking well now, I remember a similar concern in 08.  My 08s were some of my best at 9/10 years old.  
 

I tried to go long on current production and am hoping.?

 

I will also say I have had duds when young that never really came around.  They got slightly better but never blossomed — so who knows. 

 

I really haven't smoked many cigars from 2015 to 2020 codes, so it is a work in progress for me to know how they will mature. I have been enjoying the hell out of 2007, 08, 09, 10 over the last few years. I agree those years started to Really !! come into their own at 8 to 10 year mark. 2007 RYJSC, 08 Bolivar Inmensas, 08 Lusi's, 08 and 09 898's, 09 PSP 2 and D4, 09 BBF, 2010 SigloVI. 2008 and 09 were great vintages for aging imo. Honestly the 898's took a decade before I got that "Wow" factor. My plan is, "if its smoking great, some em. If you feel there is room for improvement wait 6 months or a year and try again.

 

22 hours ago, CigarZen said:

To my palate, as a general rule, cigars get better with age.  Age allows flavors to shine through without the edge or tannins that mask the flavor.

PSD4s are the expectation.  Those are better young.  Aged PSD4s seem to get floral notes I would rather not see in a Partagas. I prefer the earthy peppery power in this stick.

Agreed. 4 to 5 years seems to be a general rule of thumb for me, give or take. To really notice the blend smoothing out and various complexity of tastes to develop. Flavors grow bigger. That said, smoking cigars is a subjective experience and what I may like, someone else may not. One thing I will note is that smoking aged cigars was an acquired taste for me. I feel I just did not have the experienced palate to really taste the differences that developed as the  cigars matured over time. I have been smoking cigars for around 20 years but only smoked non-Cuban cigars for several years before Cc's. I was used to raw power vs. finesse and flavor. It will be interesting to see how the post 2010 and 2015 cigars smoke down the road. We will all know in about 7 to 10 years...

[cigaraholic]

What makes me think a CC will age well, the easy answer is when I smoke a great young cigar. The hard answer is when you smoke a good young cigar will it get better. One cigar that really sticks out in my mind is JL #4’s, a very good cigar when young but there was a flavor there that I could tell was just sleeping. Now I know it was the Cointreau genie locked in her bottle that has come out with her cloths off!

Smoking aged cigars only takes 2 things, time and money. When your young you usually have only one of the two. I love young cigars and aged cigars, for the first 30 years I smoked young cigars because I couldn’t buy more cigars than I smoked. The last 20 years I’ve been lucky enough to buy more than I smoke, so I smoke aged cigars. One sweet thing about smoking aged cigars is knowing what you paid for them and what they cost now.

[El Presidente]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:16 PM, Bri Fi said:

 

For those who had the opportunity to watch your collection age, what do you look for in fresh cigars that make you believe they will age well or poor?

 

 I am luckier than most, having being around a little longer  (than many)  in the cuban realm. 

Simply, I look for baselines. 

I look for similarities( aka ageing lines)  in fresh cigars to aged  cigars when trying to gauge long term ageing potential. It is the reason that I am solid on say PCC regional Tainos compared to old school fresh ERDM Tainos. To me, they taste the same at that juvenile stage of development. 

You have to try cigars fresh in order to get a line on how they will develop. But that reference is only valid (to me) if you try the same cigars at 2/3/5/7/10 years + down the track. 

You are looking for palate  reference  points. There are no shortcuts. 

 

 

 

 

[Chibearsv]

14 hours ago, El Presidente said:

 I am luckier than most, having being around a little longer  (than many)  in the cuban realm. 

Simply, I look for baselines. 

I look for similarities( aka ageing lines)  in fresh cigars to aged  cigars when trying to gauge long term ageing potential. It is the reason that I am solid on say PCC regional Tainos compared to old school fresh ERDM Tainos. To me, they taste the same at that juvenile stage of development. 

You have to try cigars fresh in order to get a line on how they will develop. But that reference is only valid (to me) if you try the same cigars at 2/3/5/7/10 years + down the track. 

You are looking for palate  reference  points. There are no shortcuts. 

But for those of us that may not have the time left to purchase, test, wait, make a mistake, purchase again.....  We rely on your experience and expertise.  I may not agree with your tasting notes on every cigar but when I do I'm happy to take your advice on what to expect over time.

[BrightonCorgi]

Don't be so concerned on what any particular Habanos you like now is going to taste like in 10-20 years.  Buy the cigars you like, and smoke them when you get to them.  Kill the box in a month, wait until 2040...  They were rolled for you to smoke and enjoy.  The offer different profiles at different stages of maturity.  Old does not always mean better; certainly different.

20 years from now, smoking may be so verboten, that any cigar could be like a gift from the Lord directly to you.

[Burningman]

I would agree with @CigarZen and @sw15825 that age in general is good. 4 to 5 years as a rule of thumb will give you cigars that will be ready to smoke and completely over any young edge or tannin forward flavors. This is my personal preference. When I first began in this hobby roughly 5 years on a cigar before smoking was pretty much industry standard so I have been doing this ever since. Back then it was much easier to get your cigars to this minimum age because you would receive boxes with between two to three years of age, sometimes more when ordering. This is no longer the case especially with the more popular brands/vitolas. You are fortunate to get a year old box. It's a lot tougher to build up stock. I've noticed that if my cigars are good at around five to six years of age those cigars tend to have potential to age well for multiple years.

Now, having said this I will tell you that aging your cigars can be a rollercoaster ride. I know It has been for me. You can have a cigar that was very good a year ago, taste one today and be totally underwhelmed. You may bury that box and try it again in a few years to discover they have turned the corner again. Peaks and valleys are common. This is why people will advise that if your cigars are tasty and to your liking now to smoke them. Age cigars you enjoy and don't give up on cigars that aren't stellar right away. 

 

[joeypots]

Burningman nailed it. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[bigkev]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:13 PM, Markspring1978 said:

As stated earlier, it seems that product out of Cuba today doesn’t have the same aging characteristics that the leaf and vitolas of old. But man, a Punch Super Selection 1, or a Bolivar Coronas Extra are SO much different with age.

That being said, I think most would agree that a PLPC or a Party 898 are a completely different cigar after 5 years. 

I smoked a Bolivar CE earlier today that I purchased from FOH about 10 years ago. It was from Oct 2007 and was wonderful. Lots of mushroom, nuts and some toast and caramel.