Flor De Cano Elegidos

[Nico]

I am seeing prices of 4.60 euro in Germany and Austria for these.
3.90 euro in France, where the Quai d'Orsay 50 is currently 11 euro.
That would be very, very cheap for a long filler robusto. The Quintero Favorito in France is 4.50 euro.

If these are long fillers for that price I would be very surprised. Although 10c box makes it a little odd. Nah, if these were just $2 more I would bet long filler. the Quintero favo is only 60 cents less then the LFDC so... yeah. Has to be TC.

[Bijan]

A long filler CC Robusto for under $5 seems hard to believe. Even if that's the case they'll sell out instantly and any retailer that can will up their prices.

[NSXCIGAR]

13 hours ago, Ryan said:

I am seeing prices of 4.60 euro in Germany and Austria for these.

3.90 euro in France, where the Quai d'Orsay 50 is currently 11 euro.

That would be very, very cheap for a long filler robusto. The Quintero Favorito in France is 4.50 euro.

It is also a little bit odd that they have made them 50 X 127mm (5.0 inches), rather than 50 X 124 (4 7/8 inches), the standard size for a regular robusto.

The packaging is posh for a short filler though. It'll be a nice surprise if they are long filler.

Yes, but are they actually in stock or is that a pre-order price? Everywhere I'm seeing lower prices they're out of stock, as in they haven't received them. The vendors may have pre-priced these based on outdated or incorrect info. IIRC, the initial reports about this cigar had it coming in tins of 10 which would certainly have strongly suggested a short filler. HSA could have made a last-minute decision to upgrade these to premium. 

The one vendor I do see that actually has (or had as of yesterday) had them at 6.25 Euro which would be within the lower margin for a long filler >Robusto for an ultra-low-profile brand that is re-introducing a long filler after nearly 20 years.

I would agree that if the price can be found around 4-6 Euro that would be indicative of a short filler. And I also noticed the odd vitola which again does seem to suggest something funny going on. However, yes, the packaging is consistent with a premium cigar. This would be the first short filler packaged in such a way. Obviously, if there's a TC on the bottom we'll know.

[Ryan]

I have some on the way, from a vendor who is now out of stock.

As soon as they arrive, if there's no "TC" on the bottom of the box, I'll open one up and we'll know.

Though I probably won't be the first to receive them.

[Çnote]

@El Presidente

Might we expect to see these in the store?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I am very eager to see what people think of these. I saw them on another site and considered pulling the trigger but they disappeared in a flash.

Whenever someone gets the chance to try one, please post back here what you thought of them!

[NSXCIGAR]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:23 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

Unfortunately, the Robustos ER was quite disappointing though.

FWIW, I just sampled the Robustos tonight after a year and huge improvement. Some great fruit and floral notes starting to peek out. Much better balance. These might end up being very nice after a couple more years. Interesting these are taking time but the Magicos were ready to go ROTT. 

[gojira]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

FWIW, I just sampled the Robustos tonight after a year and huge improvement. Some great fruit and floral notes starting to peek out. Much better balance. These might end up being very nice after a couple more years. Interesting these are taking time but the Magicos were ready to go ROTT. 

That's good to read as I hated the Robustos when it was released. I went through nearly a box of the Magicos on the other hand and agree that they are a very good cigar. The only downside is that they are in a vitola that I have a ton off and only bought two boxes. 😂

[NSXCIGAR]

12 hours ago, gojira said:

That's good to read as I hated the Robustos when it was released.

I was very disappointed with them as well. I found them to be what I caIl "generic Cuban cigar"--clearly Cuban with no character. I stashed a few away just to see if a year or two would change them. Sure enough it did. Went from an 88 to a 92. 

[Ciscojohansson]

Any news? Has anyone tried them?

[Salomones]

It is TC.


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[La_Tigre]

[Çnote]

@El Presidente any word if these will be available here??

[Hammer Smokin']

reading these are around $65USD for 10 count? 

[La_Tigre]

9 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

reading these are around $65USD for 10 count? 

Initial burst was $75. Can’t say it makes sense to park coin in TC not far off JL2, Epi 2, Short Churchill, D4, RASS, Short de Punch prices.

[Salomones]

Germany/Austria it will be 46€ per Box. Thats about 55$.


Gesendet von meinem moto g(9) plus mit Tapatalk

[La_Tigre]

3 hours ago, Lrabold89 said:

No offense but they don’t look too good a little lifeless


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not mine, thankfully. 

[NSXCIGAR]

The only chance these have is if they somehow happen to smoke incredibly great. I just don't understand why they continue to punish these marcas with cuts and cheap models. If they want success with LFDC special releases a nice hand made model in the lineup would serve them well. The Magicos would have been a perfect model to introduce permanently. Instead, we get a polished TC turd.

 

[MC4]

Just as a reference, these are being sold for 28.5 Euro for a box of 10, in Andorra. 

 

[Akela3rd]

Anyone got further opinions on these? I got a couple of boxes a couple of months ago and have been quite enjoying them. They seem well made and nicely presented. They're not designed to be a complex smoke but do seem to be a step up from the comparable Quintero Favorito. Not at all harsh and with a slight fruitiness, no burn issues and averaging an hour smoking time so they're good value for those on a budget. Just finishing one now so I thought I'd ask...

Sent by spooky action at a distance
 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:27 PM, MC4 said:

Just as a reference, these are being sold for 28.5 Euro for a box of 10, in Andorra. 

At that price, I'm totally in--yard 'gar or not. 

I just think HSA has this one all wrong. Don't waste a new model and a SLB in a barren, near-forgotten marca on a short-filler throwaway cigar. I just see this as a huge missed opportunity. Reestablishing LFDC as a serious brand with at least one high-quality hand-made model would go a long way to helping sell the special releases they clearly want to focus on. I can make the case the LFDC ERs have been some of the worst performing in the history of the program. The Gran Cano, Grandiosos, Siboney and Casanova are all still available at reasonable prices to this day and all were only 50-60K sticks--totally average for ER production. 

Might this be because nobody knows anything about the damn brand? There are probably 12 people in the world that buy the PC or Selectos regularly and the rest are probably drugstore counter purchases or Duty Free sales. 

I also see this phenomenon with Diplomaticos. Outside of the Bushidos which was a unique release, Dip ERs tend to hang around for a while. Not as bad as LFDC but might this be because no one smokes the darn brand? Having only a Piramides in 25s alienates lots of buyers and it being the only model many retailers don't even carry that. But at least there is a high-quality HM cigar in the lineup so people can become fans of the marca. 

Many people might buy the Elegidos thinking they are better than they are based on presentation and be disappointed. They might think this is the best this marca can do. If they were going to do another TC model they should have kept it in DB or done bundles like the Favoritos. Don't risk turning people off of a marca for no reason. I just am totally puzzled why they don't give this brand--that they clearly want to exploit for ER purposes--a hand made model. The Magicos would have been perfect. Get people into the brand again. Show them what the brand can do. Make them want to try a LFDC ER. 

There are only 27 brands. Each and every one should be respected or cut, particularly if they're trying to cash in with special releases. The poor performance of the LFDC ERs makes me afraid distributors will be hesitant to choose it in the future. 

[Corylax18]

13 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

At that price, I'm totally in--yard 'gar or not. 

I just think HSA has this one all wrong. Don't waste a new model and a SLB in a barren, near-forgotten marca on a short-filler throwaway cigar. I just see this as a huge missed opportunity. Reestablishing LFDC as a serious brand with at least one high-quality hand-made model would go a long way to helping sell the special releases they clearly want to focus on. I can make the case the LFDC ERs have been some of the worst performing in the history of the program. The Gran Cano, Grandiosos, Siboney and Casanova are all still available at reasonable prices to this day and all were only 50-60K sticks--totally average for ER production. 

Might this be because nobody knows anything about the damn brand? There are probably 12 people in the world that buy the PC or Selectos regularly and the rest are probably drugstore counter purchases or Duty Free sales. 

I also see this phenomenon with Diplomaticos. Outside of the Bushidos which was a unique release, Dip ERs tend to hang around for a while. Not as bad as LFDC but might this be because no one smokes the darn brand? Having only a Piramides in 25s alienates lots of buyers and it being the only model many retailers don't even carry that. But at least there is a high-quality HM cigar in the lineup so people can become fans of the marca. 

Many people might buy the Elegidos thinking they are better than they are based on presentation and be disappointed. They might think this is the best this marca can do. If they were going to do another TC model they should have kept it in DB or done bundles like the Favoritos. Don't risk turning people off of a marca for no reason. I just am totally puzzled why they don't give this brand--that they clearly want to exploit for ER purposes--a hand made model. The Magicos would have been perfect. Get people into the brand again. Show them what the brand can do. Make them want to try a LFDC ER. 

There are only 27 brands. Each and every one should be respected or cut, particularly if they're trying to cash in with special releases. The poor performance of the LFDC ERs makes me afraid distributors will be hesitant to choose it in the future. 

I agree with everything you said here. But, My question is, with what tobacco?

Its pretty much a zero sum game for HSA at this point. Any leaf that they cant shove into a short, fat, over priced LE/RE is a lose of potential profit right now. The days of the completely irrational catalogue are done. HSA couldn't care less if RE's sit on the shelves. They get paid by the distributor before the cigars are delivered. 

As much as I personally hate it, HSA would be stupid to add a robusto and figurado to LFDC, or any cigar to the Dip lineup. Even 50,000 of one would be 50,000 (in theory) Robusto RE's that they couldn't roll. If LFDC RE's sit on the shelves, imagine how rp might sell right now and RP sitting on the shelves would eventually be HSA's problem. 

Again, I agree with you completely, but it would be all risk and very little potential reward for some very risk averse people. 

[NSXCIGAR]

33 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

As much as I personally hate it, HSA would be stupid to add a robusto and figurado to LFDC, or any cigar to the Dip lineup. Even 50,000 of one would be 50,000 (in theory) Robusto RE's that they couldn't roll. If LFDC RE's sit on the shelves, imagine how rp might sell right now and RP sitting on the shelves would eventually be HSA's problem.

But they wouldn't have to sell 50,000. A Magicos could sell 20K sticks a year while improving the movement of the 50-60K ERs every 2-3 years. I have no doubt a Dip Magicos or Genios would sell at least 20K sticks a year. The idea is to get more people to the brand thus getting more people to the ERs. 

As far as leaf, they seemed to find it for the Elegidos and they're cranking out 100K ER Robustos. 15-20K Magicos per year every year wouldn't be hard at all. It's the equivalent of one ER release (60K sticks over 3 years.)

I always see that come up: where will the leaf come from? Well, new models arrive all the time and they aren't cutting many anymore so it's got to be coming from somewhere. I'm sure there's plenty of leaf to go around.

[Corylax18]

22 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

But they wouldn't have to sell 50,000. A Magicos could sell 20K sticks a year while improving the movement of the 50-60K ERs every 2-3 years. I have no doubt a Dip Magicos or Genios would sell at least 20K sticks a year. The idea is to get more people to the brand thus getting more people to the ERs. 

As far as leaf, they seemed to find it for the Elegidos and they're cranking out 100K ER Robustos. 15-20K Magicos per year every year wouldn't be hard at all. It's the equivalent of one ER release (60K sticks over 3 years.)

I always see that come up: where will the leaf come from? Well, new models arrive all the time and they aren't cutting many anymore so it's got to be coming from somewhere. I'm sure there's plenty of leaf to go around.

Whether they're cutting cigars or not isn't really an indicator of a balanced supply chain. Cigar exports from Cuba have been relatively flat for years. Rob talks about it all the time, his order sheets from PCC usually have about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the regular range available at any one time, everything else just isn't available. Its great the Sir Winstons haven't been discontinued, but two runs of 5-10k every 3 or 4 years isnt exactly regular production. Why did QdO Coronas disappear for 2 years around the launch of the new sizes? MdO 4 only available occasionally, in short runs. ER's and LE's are often years late. The tobacco for all these "special" cigars is just being poached from regular cigars. They're already poaching more than enough regular tobacco to cause major, constant, disruptions in their regular production supply chain. Robbing Peter to Pay Paul. 

Even if HSA "remembered" a warehouse in Havana with 5 years worth of ready to use, high quality tobacco, it still wouldn't happen. All or almost all of it would go straight into the "special" stuff, because that's where their return will be the highest.

I would love to see a Ninfa, a Long Corona, a Lancero and a PC in every marca. But I've long stopped losing sleep over it. Its not going to happen under the current regime. We're in a very small minority in the market though. For every one of you and me that HSA looses as a customer, they add 5 new customers happy to lap up whatever gets dumped on them. There are other ways to get your hands on the size and blend you want, outside of HSA's iron grip on the market. I know they haven't noticed and they wouldn't care if they did, but HSA has lost most of my cigar business at this point. I haven't bought a regular production cigar for almost 2 years. I will again if HSA can provide something that interests me, at a price that interests me. 

[NSXCIGAR]

21 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Whether they're cutting cigars or not isn't really an indicator of a balanced supply chain. Cigar exports from Cuba have been relatively flat for years. Rob talks about it all the time, his order sheets from PCC usually have about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the regular range available at any one time, everything else just isn't available. Its great the Sir Winstons haven't been discontinued, but two runs of 5-10k every 3 or 4 years isnt exactly regular production. Why did QdO Coronas disappear for 2 years around the launch of the new sizes? MdO 4 only available occasionally, in short runs. ER's and LE's are often years late. The tobacco for all these "special" cigars is just being poached from regular cigars. They're already poaching more than enough regular tobacco to cause major, constant, disruptions in their regular production supply chain. Robbing Peter to Pay Paul. 

I think this has just as much to do with production schedule as it does for leaf supply. It's hard to tell what's what. In the case of the SW it's possible there really is a shortage of leaf for this cigar. The fact that it's rolled in every factory under the sun and very sporadically makes me think that when the leaf comes in it goes to the factory with space and it gets rolled. Something like the MdO4 or Party 898 may be different. There might be x amount rolled at one time and then they move on until the next production run. Now I would say if that's the case they are certainly underproducing those cigars but they are slow sellers and perhaps the distributors aren't asking for them or some other reason. 

The fact is that there are just some cigars that seem to always have a hiatus. QdO Coronas is one of them, and it's possible that the hiatus came right around the time of the 50 & 54. IMO, the Coronas are a completely different blend than the 50 & 54.

I agree, the fact that export units remain stable is a bit of a mystery that I need to consider. But all the leaf used in the LFDC ERs is coming from somewhere. Where did the leaf come from for the Edmundo Dantes and La Escepcion? That's not being cannibalized by another brand. Where is the leaf coming from for  the 450,000 sticks of RA Phoenicia 40? Has there been any shortage of any other RA? Even RAG has been readily available for a year. And the RA ERs keep coming. How can they inject 450K sticks while seemingly maintaining unit levels on every other RA? I can't recall ever seeing RASS out of stock at any vendor, ever. 

I suppose I'm saying I agree with HSA channeling leaf into special production from a profit standpoint--my only point is that by bolstering a marca's regular line they can move more special production for that marca which is what they should be wanting. I think special production for Dip, SLR, SP and LFDC would all benefit from adding a model or two that people could become fans of. The case of LFDC is the most dire IMO as no one buys the regular production and the special production drags hard. This marca is on death's doorstep and there's no reason it should be.